Bean Counting (Per/Hard) This skill is used to win beans in a jar contests but can also be applied to paperclips and pins with a technique.

Quote from: David JohansenBean Counting (Per/Hard) This skill is used to win beans in a jar contests but can also be applied to paperclips and pins with a technique.

*chokes on his Coke* By Sun and Wind, I'm going to have to be careful to not let my daughter know about that one; she'll want to take that skill for her character!

I'm late to this thread, but I plays me alot of GURPS so I thought I should come stick up for it...

The specificity of some of the skills may not be satisfactory to everyone, but the number of skills is necessary to cover as broad of scope as GURPS does. Note that you can specialise in an area of geology if you wanted to, at least in 3e revised.

The skills are as balanced as they are in most systems, IE; no skills are created equal. Pottery is going to come in more useful in a pre-industrial society than in your cyberpunk game for example. The point cost reflects the difficulty of learning the skill in question, and I think it does a pretty good job.

Also ass-wiping is Physical/Easy. If you are trying to wipe an ass other than your own, the target should get an active defense...:haw:

Quote from: SgtSpaceWizardthe number of skills is necessary to cover as broad of scope as GURPS does.

I disagree, plenty of other generic games use a much smaller skill list and don't have any trouble handling the same range of games GURPS does.  GURPS just caters to both players who want a high degree of specificity and those that want broader skills.  The downside to this is all the GMs out there who want to use everything the damn book has instead of picking and choosing.  It may also be a flaw in that the book seems to present such narrowly useful skills as the default - I've not encountered a GURPS GM who uses broader skills.

QuoteThe skills are as balanced as they are in most systems, IE; no skills are created equal.

I consider GURPS balancing to be unique, or at least rare.  I don't know of any other games that sets skill costs based on difficulty to learn through training.  Most games try to narrow skills down to those that will likely see use in the game, that are important to the type of stories roleplaying games tend to tell (stories not about pottery, for instance).  Most games have flat costs, but a few have costs based on the usefulness of a given skill.

C.W. , you've already established in other threads that you don't think much of GURPS.


 So, like Settembrini, you don't GET the joke...or need the punchline explained to you.


 "Biege, I think I'll paint the ceiling biege."


- Ed C.

Quote from: KoltarC.W. , you've already established in other threads that you don't think much of GURPS.

I have no idea what you're talking about.  I have dozens of the books on my shelf, have played in several campaigns, and occasionally pitch the game.  I don't get the joke thing either, sorry.  It must be an in-joke I've missed somewhere here.

If you disagree with one of my points, please explain why.  I'm not perfect, my ideas are often flawed, and I'm always happy to have someone change my mind.

Quote from: C.W.RichesonIf you disagree with one of my points, please explain why. I'm not perfect, my ideas are often flawed, and I'm always happy to have someone change my mind.

I'm not exactly disagreeing, but I am interested in a bit of expansion on a few of the points you made.

Quote...plenty of other generic games use a much smaller skill list and don't have any trouble handling the same range of games GURPS does.

Such as? I can't think off the top of my head of any other generic games that are as versatile as GURPS with a significantly smaller skill list...I'm kind of wondering which ones you have in mind.

QuoteGURPS just caters to both players who want a high degree of specificity and those that want broader skills. The downside to this is all the GMs out there who want to use everything the damn book has instead of picking and choosing.  It may also be a flaw in that the book seems to present such narrowly useful skills as the default - I've not encountered a GURPS GM who uses broader skills.

Most GURPS GMs and players are attracted to the game exactly because of the specificity of the skills.

A short skill list may have the "advantage" of the skills thereon being broadly applicable, but broadly applicable skills have the limitation of being rather generic. An example can be found in a system like Twilight 2000/Dark Conspiracy/Cadillacs & Dinosaurs, where the Melee Combat (Armed) skill allows equal proficiency in everything from knives to swords to spears...three weapons that have distinctive fighting styles.

Most GURPS GMs I know -- myself included -- do indeed pick and choose from among the skills offered. I, for one, seldom if ever use the Art or Sport forms of combat skills unless the player so specifies.

One thing to remember is that in gurps it's easier to design a unique character that is really one of a kind and special. (Not "Christmas ape" special, but the good kind of special)

In d20 characters tend to all look alike, especially with class and level rules.

I like a character that isn't just another thief, fighter, wizard, netrunner, etc.

Quote from: Dominus NoxEven as this thread rages, I'm doing a merc band with the gesture skill for each one to allow silent communication.

I've got to say, that's pretty cool.

QuoteIn d20 characters tend to all look alike, especially with class and level rules.

...except that they are all mechanically different and really, really play in a   different crunchy ballpark.

Actually it´s the GURPS characters who are all alike:

Just a bunch of Skillls you can roll for.

In D&D you´ve got Spells, Items, Feat, Feats, Feats and some more Feats who let you do stuff that is mechanically different.

It´s a shame, Nox: GURPS is a fine system, but your reasons for liking it, are totally ridiculous and show how much you lack in Roleplay-ology.

Quote from: Settembrini...except that they are all mechanically different and really, really play in a   different crunchy ballpark.

Actually it´s the GURPS characters who are all alike:

Just a bunch of Skillls you can roll for.

In D&D you´ve got Spells, Items, Feat, Feats, Feats and some more Feats who let you do stuff that is mechanically different.

It´s a shame, Nox: GURPS is a fine system, but your reasons for liking it, are totally ridiculous and show how much you lack in Roleplay-ology.

:tears: :roofle: :killingme:


Coming from someone who doesn't even fucking know that in gurps you don't roll for anything but buy everything, your criticism of my "Roleplay-ology" really struck my funnybone.

Keep it up, I could use some more laughs, and I find your ignorance amusing.

QuoteComing from someone who doesn't even fucking know that in gurps you don't roll for anything but buy

I did not say that.

Go, read.
And I did start this thread with a critique on the point buy.
Go, read.

Quote from: Lord SvengaliSuch as? I can't think off the top of my head of any other generic games that are as versatile as GURPS with a significantly smaller skill list...I'm kind of wondering which ones you have in mind.

HERO, for example. It has a much shorter list of skills that GURPS. On the other hand, the skill list of HERO doesn't satisfy me as much as the skill list of GURPS does.

I fail to see how in GURPS there are more skills than there should be. If we were talking about Rolemaster SS, well, I'd wholeheartedly agree, but in GURPS.... :confused:

Quote from: Lord SvengaliI'm not exactly disagreeing, but I am interested in a bit of expansion on a few of the points you made.


Such as? I can't think off the top of my head of any other generic games that are as versatile as GURPS with a significantly smaller skill list...I'm kind of wondering which ones you have in mind.

Mainstream games off the top of my head: M&M, HERO and Tri-Stat.

Quote from: SettembriniActually it´s the GURPS characters who are all alike:

Any system with a greater degree of specificity is going to result in characters that look even more different from one another than a system with a lesser degree of specificity.  More interesting options = more diverse characters.  Perhaps in some GURPS games - like modern conspiracy - we'll see a lot of folk take firearms and investigation oriented skills, but even then they'll have a lot of different advantages and disadvantages.  As Nox rightly points out, two first level fighters can look awfully similar.  There are only so many ways to set your character apart at early levels in D&D.