For me, .pdfs are the other side of the gaming coin; I'm glad to have electronic documents as well as print documents, as they both enhance my hobby while they each have their ups and downs.

.pdfs, f'r'ex, are (as has been mentioned) cheap, partially- or wholly-printable, searchable, immediate and convenient to store.  And when you get them from, say, PIG, you get free updates.

Quote from: ColonelHardissonWasn't intended as a debate, but as a thread for declarations of what people like about pdfs.

Oh, I see. Fine.

Well, I'm done with this, I'm going to take part in this thread constructively.

I'm not much of a fan of PDFs, but I think they've got some advantages. For example, they don't take any physical space. This may seem a silly thing until you realize there is not much space left on your shelves (it's happening to me now ). As for the price, they tend to be cheaper than printed books unless you want to print them (or you've got the option to print them for free). Another advantage, is that an RPG in PDF format will NEVER be out of print, unless the publisher decides to remove it.

Quote from: Dr Rotwang!For me, .pdfs are the other side of the gaming coin; I'm glad to have electronic documents as well as print documents, as they both enhance my hobby while they each have their ups and downs.

My thoughts exactly.  I wouldn't want for it just to be one or the other.

How on earth are pdfs and print books "functionally the same price." With one you get all the info cheap, with the other you get all the info in a costlier form. Functionally, books are designed to provide information. Whether it's electronic or paper is an aesthetic issue for the most part (barring physical problems that prevent the reader from reading electronically as easily as they read hard copies).

THe pdfs of print versions i've seen are charged at only a couple of bucks less than the print version itself. that's a no sale to me. It's also ludicrous and indefensible. I agree wholeheartedly that porting the entire document, as intended for the print verison, to pdf (presumably the reason why they are so expensive) is nuts.

Bottom line: if you want to sell me a product, don't charge me the same for a better version. That's stupid. It also doesn't encourage me to get the print version either (as many have claimed on similar threads), that's just insulting my intelligence.

I gues my pdf searching has been different than yours. for instance, the Exalted 2e core book was about 25% cheaper in pdf format, and searchable (which makes up for the ludicrously useless index). IMO that's paying less for a better product.

Ummm...probably because the put it in pdf format to get it printed in the first place?

So they incur the cost of creating the pdf, whether they sell it to you directly or send it to the printer...

It's just a guess...

I like pdf's for the electronic conveniences stated previously. I'm also a part time DBA and I think splitting the books up into a DB would be useful as well. I like physical books that either come with a pdf of the content or have the pdf available.

Actually I might prefer if the books actually came in a db format. I think pdf can do this sort of thing behind the scenes but I'm not sure many pdf publishers take advantage.

Quote from: James J SkachUmmm...probably because the put it in pdf format to get it printed in the first place?

So they incur the cost of creating the pdf, whether they sell it to you directly or send it to the printer...

It's just a guess...

If it's printed they printer and the seller gets a cut. If it's sold as a pdf the printer is out. Shouldn't that mean the publisher makes more money on the pdf if he sells them both at the same price?

Quote from: James McMurrayIf it's printed they printer and the seller gets a cut. If it's sold as a pdf the printer is out. Shouldn't that mean the publisher makes more money on the pdf if he sells them both at the same price?

Sure.  But I'm not seeing the argument that they cost the same.  I'm seeing the argument that they cost a little less, but are "functionally the same."

That difference in price might be the printer.  I don't know - ask one of the guys here like Bill or Clash. I could investigate with some of the guys at work and get exact numbers.  But from my experience there, the companies for whom we are making catalogs are paying far more for getting the content/layout set then they are on the actual printing.

Quote from: signoftheserpentTHe pdfs of print versions i've seen are charged at only a couple of bucks less than the print version itself. that's a no sale to me. It's also ludicrous and indefensible. I agree wholeheartedly that porting the entire document, as intended for the print verison, to pdf (presumably the reason why they are so expensive) is nuts.

Bottom line: if you want to sell me a product, don't charge me the same for a better version. That's stupid. It also doesn't encourage me to get the print version either (as many have claimed on similar threads), that's just insulting my intelligence.

A Sampling of my own games:

StarCluster 2E Print = $32.90*
StarCluster 2E pdf = $ 12.00

In Harm's Way: A Napoleonic Naval RPG Print = $22.90
In Harm's Way: A Napoleonic Naval RPG pdf = $11.00

In Harm's Way: Aces In Spades Print = $ 23.54
In Harm's Way: Aces In Spades pdf = $11.00

Cold Space RPG Print = $ 21.99
Cold Space RPG pdf = $ 11.00

* Used to be $27.97, but Lulu instituted a uniform pricing agreement, and raised the price to the list price of the versions they sell via amazon and B&N. If I lower the price, I cut my already slim margins of the amazon print versions to nothing.

PDFs do NOT cost the same to produce as print games, though they do cost a good bit if you make good pdfs. They shouldn't cost the same as a print version. The publishers who have embraced pdf - like myself, Hinterwelt, PIG, and a bunch of others - instead of fearing it see this and price accordingly. Those who fear pdfs price them so it's not worth your while to buy them. My price reflects the cost of creating the game, plus distribution, plus print costs, plus a profit margin. With pdfs, the print cost is gone, and distro cost is lower.

-clash

And some companies can't seem to make up their minds. While that Exalted core book was noticably cheaper in pdf, the Lunars book costs the same in either form.

Quote from: James J SkachSure.  But I'm not seeing the argument that they cost the same.  I'm seeing the argument that they cost a little less, but are "functionally the same."

I was referring to this post:

QuotePDF's are functionally the same price.

What I DO like is when a publisher gives me the pdf right away when I order the book on his website. This is what PIGames and BTRC do, and I'm sure a lot of others, too. I get instant gratification AND I get a present in the mail two weeks later.

Quote from: James McMurrayI was referring to this post:

Sorry James, I too was referring to that post, not your redirection to it...