Quote from: Zalman;1117063But then I'm left scratching my head as to why anyone who doesn't play in Adventurer's League gives a hoot as which setting is used there.

As FR is the 5e default setting, the majority of 5e books from WotC will reference FR material within, and that's also promoted for the 3PP by the DMs Guild on DriveThruRPG. Thus, WotC will be producing less "setting neutral" books or non-FR setting books. That's why they give a hoot.

I don't give a hoot about whatever default they choose since I don't (and won't) buy WotC products, but I understand the economic choice by WotC and the non-FR fan upset.

Quote from: Shasarak;1117114Well I see the bit about me missing the point, then the bit about Star Wars and the bit about how Dark Sun is not Desert Survival it is Dessert Survival.

In regards to cannibal halflings, Dark Sun IS about Dessert Survival!!

Quote from: Shasarak;1117114Well I see the bit about me missing the point, then the bit about Star Wars and the bit about how Dark Sun is not Desert Survival it is Dessert Survival.

Am I with you so far?

Only in a trollish fashion.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1117123In regards to cannibal halflings, Dark Sun IS about Dessert Survival!!

In a very specific world, with a specific theme, built around specific scenarios that encompass the ENTIRE planet--not just a singular region--where life is so harsh everyone had to take radical steps to adapt to the environment. Which is why Athas has cannibal halflings and Faerun's punny desert doesn't. And one of the many, MANY reasons why a single region of Faerun isn't interchangeable with the entire world of Dark Sun, and no adventure in ANY part of the FR could ever serve as a stand-in for Dark Sun, much like no adventure in Star Wars could ever replace actual Sword & Sorcery world. The two are simply not the same.

Dark Sun isn't even proper Sword & Sorcery (except maybe in a superficial, post-apocalyptic way), but more akin to Sword & Planet with fantasy elements in some respects. It's its own unique world with a specialized theme and material, where most things (including every single race except humans, most classes and both, divine and arcane magic) have their own rules and adaptations that are about playing in that world, not just generic fantasy in a desert region.

Are you sure Athas really has bigger desserts than Faerun?

Quote from: Spinachcat;1117132Are you sure Athas really has bigger desserts than Faerun?

Almost the entire planet--except for a few tiny forested areas--is desert, so I'm guessing yeah.

So you believe the desserts on Faerun should be easier to survive than desserts on Athas? I'm unsure if FR fans would agree.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1117139So you believe the desserts on Faerun should be easier to survive than desserts on Athas? I'm unsure if FR fans would agree.

FR fans would be wrong, in addition to already being wrong by virtue of being FR fans. Not that that has anything to do with any of the actual points I've made so far--since I didn't bring up desert size or world difficulty per se, but rather key stylistic differences between the settings. But since you bring it up, yes, Dark Sun was specifically made to be about a brutal land, with tougher than normal (for a D&D setting) critters and specialized rules for water conservation and desert survival, since even the environment itself can kill you. So yes, Dark Sun was specifically and explicitly built (by design) to be tougher than the average D&D world--in general, not just within the desert itself, but the ENTIRE world is supposed to be tougher than other D&D worlds. According not to me as a Dark Sun fan, but to the designers at the time.

I'm an FR fan. I'm a massive Darksun fan.

Darksun is ridiculously more dangerous than FR - deserts or otherwise. But the desserts on FR are RIDICULOUSLY better. Have you *seen* Elven angelfood cake? It's DIVINE!!! Whereas in Darksun - you get sweet-beetles lightly roasted and crushed over dehydrated Kank-pod, which is thickened in the heat once you puncture that membrane. No comparison - FR desserts are way better.

Quote from: VisionStorm;1117045Seriously, why would I wanna play some lame generic camel riding nomad when I could play freaking cannibal halfling fighting half-giants with psionic powers, riding giant dune beetles across the desert landscape, with long legged elves sprinting marathons across the sands and bald, barrel chested dwarves building shit all day?

As my reply showed, I agree!

If I'm going to be playing a fantasy campaign in a dystopian desert, it will be Dark Sun. It won't be in the Shaar Desolation.

Oh, and it will be the muls building things because they're bred to work. (Oh no, I'm racist!)

Quote from: tenbones;1117156I'm an FR fan. I'm a massive Darksun fan.

Darksun is ridiculously more dangerous than FR - deserts or otherwise. But the desserts on FR are RIDICULOUSLY better. Have you *seen* Elven angelfood cake? It's DIVINE!!! Whereas in Darksun - you get sweet-beetles lightly roasted and crushed over dehydrated Kank-pod, which is thickened in the heat once you puncture that membrane. No comparison - FR desserts are way better.

I retract my previous statements implying universal wrongness on FR fans, and that angelfood cake sounds delicious! Though, talk of Kanks makes me wanna try their delicious honey or some fermented Kank Nectar brews.

Quote from: Scrivener of Doom;1117164As my reply showed, I agree!

If I'm going to be playing a fantasy campaign in a dystopian desert, it will be Dark Sun. It won't be in the Shaar Desolation.

That's the thing, Dark Sun and FR are two COMPLETELY different settings that aren't even in the same sub-genre. FR is milk-toast quasi-medieval high fantasy with recognizable Earth-like cultures, Dark Sun is an alien post-apocalyptic dystopia that bears no resemblance to medieval Europe, Egypt or the Middle East. The two are NOTHING alike and the fact that FR has deserts doesn't mean that therefore you can play adventures there that are JUST like playing Dark Sun.

Quote from: Scrivener of Doom;1117164Oh, and it will be the muls building things because they're bred to work. (Oh no, I'm racist!)

Yeah, but muls are usually bred for the arena, with more incompetent ones used for mining. Dwarves are typically builders because of their focus, though muls and half-giants are also used to carry heavy building materials.

Actually Visionstorm does have one good point about why Darksun is nowhere near as successful then the Realms: No Gnomes.

As 4es failure showed you cut Gnomes from DnD at your peril.

Quote from: tenbones;1117156I'm an FR fan. I'm a massive Darksun fan.

Darksun is ridiculously more dangerous than FR - deserts or otherwise. But the desserts on FR are RIDICULOUSLY better. Have you *seen* Elven angelfood cake? It's DIVINE!!! Whereas in Darksun - you get sweet-beetles lightly roasted and crushed over dehydrated Kank-pod, which is thickened in the heat once you puncture that membrane. No comparison - FR desserts are way better.

I am sure that I have already seen that dystopian future on the news trying to get people to eat bugs.

I go with Faerun because it's the path of least resistance. I could build my own setting to be honest I am too lazy. So I stick with Faerun. It did bother me that with 3E they made at least the core used greyhawk as a setting then went out of their ay to ignore it in favor of Faerun. Why not simply use Faerun for the especially if it was more popular.

Quote from: Shasarak;1117193I am sure that I have already seen that dystopian future on the news trying to get people to eat bugs.

I'm not opposed to the idea of getting extra protein from more renewable sources (meats cheap in the USA because of the meat lobby), but the panicky way they're selling it makes me uncomfortable.

I mean we use plenty of insect material in our food anyway, it's just out of sight out of mind.

I've got two unoriginal points to make about FR. First up, it's f*&%ing boring. Case closed. Second, names. It seems to me that DMs and players, even when steeped in FR lore, struggle with pronouncing, let alone remembering, NPC names. Araevin Teshurr. Ellifain Tuuserail. Galaeron Nihmedu. Methrammar Aerasumé. Pharaun Mizzrym. Etc. Clusterfucks of vowels and consonants, ahoy!

Quote from: Dylan;1117206I've got two unoriginal points to make about FR. First up, it's f*&%ing boring. Case closed.

Open that case up a bit. Boring in what state/with what sources? Boring compared to what alternatives?

Forgotten Realms is the Star Trek Voyager of D&D settings. Warm, comfortable, and not challenging. I don't even say that as a criticism. Sometimes you want the easy and familiar.