Quote from: Zalman;1116970Do they? I don't recall most published modules of the 1e era including a setting, or even elements of a setting. Could be I'm getting senile I guess. Either way, we always dropped modules into our own settings anyway.

Yes. Early modules were either set somewhere in Greyhawk, or left blank. Bone Hill and Cult of the Reptile God are both set in Greyhawk, But far as I can tell the whole GDQ series is left blank.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1117139So you believe the desserts on Faerun should be easier to survive than desserts on Athas? I'm unsure if FR fans would agree.

Its FR. Even the palm trees are trying to kill you when your pillow isnt.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1117223Forgotten Realms is the Star Trek Voyager of D&D settings. Warm, comfortable, and not challenging. I don't even say that as a criticism. Sometimes you want the easy and familiar.

What the hell Voyager did you watch as that sure wasnt the case.

Quote from: Omega;1117258That is easy. Not everyone is good at, or wants to build their own world.

Providing published settings is a very different thing than calling one of those settings a "default". Having to create your own world really has nothing to do with whether or not WoTC names a default setting.

Quote from: Omega;1117267Yes. Early modules were either set somewhere in Greyhawk, or left blank. Bone Hill and Cult of the Reptile God are both set in Greyhawk, But far as I can tell the whole GDQ series is left blank.

Right, "left blank" means no explicit setting mentioned. So the question "do adventures have to include some setting" is clearly historically "no". I'm not sure how you get a "yes" from your explanation.

Quote from: VisionStorm;1117250Yeah, most people don't even remember [Gnomes] exist (hence, may confuse a small race PC for a halfling during play), and when they do play them, often it's cuz of secondary reasons pertaining to a gnome subrace with cool tricks that work for a certain character type, or maybe cuz they did something cool with them in a specific setting.

Points to username

Though admittedly my username is taken from a joke back in high school, so. I think I can count on one hand the number of times I've run a game with a gnome PC... actually I have a demographics thing on my wiki, let me check... since I started tracking characters in games I've run since '05, I've had exactly 2 gnomes in my games.

Compare that to 4 halflings, or 21 humans.

Quote from: Zalman;1117287Right, "left blank" means no explicit setting mentioned. So the question "do adventures have to include some setting" is clearly historically "no". I'm not sure how you get a "yes" from your explanation.

You asked if any modules used the published settings. The answer is Yes. But not all.

Quote from: Omega;1117414You asked if any modules used the published settings. The answer is Yes. But not all.

Ah, not quite:

Quote from: Blankman;1116914adventures have to have some setting.

Quote from: Zalman;1116970Do they?

No, modules do not have to include any elements of a published campaign setting. Clearly we agree on this point.

I'd be willing to bet that Faerun in part initially came about to move TSR away from Gygax's Greyhawk and his other works. Gary's exit from TSR wasn't an amicable thing and I'd imagine the idea for a brand new setting not associated with Gary had a lot of appeal for the people in charge of TSR at the time. And the initial FR material was actually pretty good.

I personally would've preferred if 5e had released with a slant towards including all the older settings. Even the adventure league could've done 1 season in FR, then another in Dark Sun, Dragonlance, Spelljammer, etc. I think not exploiting these old settings more was a missed opportunity. Paizo adventure paths do well because they have a lot of variety in them. I think D&D groups would've eaten up an adventure module in traditional Faerun then the next one being Spelljammer.

Quote from: Dracones;1117445I'd be willing to bet that Faerun in part initially came about to move TSR away from Gygax's Greyhawk and his other works. Gary's exit from TSR wasn't an amicable thing and I'd imagine the idea for a brand new setting not associated with Gary had a lot of appeal for the people in charge of TSR at the time. And the initial FR material was actually pretty good. (snip)

I believe there was also the issue of Gary being a design bottleneck for anything Greyhawk-related. Ed had a tonne of material for FR that had already been published, and thousands upon thousands of pages of material that had not. So, even before considering what other internal designers and freelancers might do, TSR had access to far more material than Gary had ever produced and was likely to produce - particularly as the end of his time at TSR coincided with his "hookers and blow"-period. So, yes, a fresh post-Gygax start plus no obstacles to product being produced in the quantities that an (inept) management might require.

The Psionics book was "involved" in Dark Sun in the sense that the creators were literally forced to include it by Lorraine Williams because she wanted to force more D&D gamers to buy it.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1117586The Psionics book was "involved" in Dark Sun in the sense that the creators were literally forced to include it by Lorraine Williams because she wanted to force more D&D gamers to buy it.

The 2E Psionics book was pretty good, but still fiddly compared to Gamma World's psionics. When I ran Dark Sun, I used OD&D + Gamma World which ran better for me.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1117602The 2E Psionics book was pretty good, but still fiddly compared to Gamma World's psionics. When I ran Dark Sun, I used OD&D + Gamma World which ran better for me.

I never got around playing Gamma World, so I don't know how good their psionics system was, but I was always ambivalent about 2e's rules. It's been too long so I don't remember specifics, but I thought some of the powers were too gimmicky or of limited usage (or outright useless or pathetically weak in the case of some attack powers), and the PSP costs seemed too arbitrary or prohibitive sometimes. I did like that they treated powers kinda like a Proficiency, though, and preferred that approach to D&D's Vancian magic system, but adding PSP costs on top of having to roll to maybe succeed in using a power was a bit too much at times and added to the considerable bookkeeping that I already hated from having to keep track of so many spells.

Another thing that was hit or miss for me was Psionic Combat. I thought that the basic rules to establish contact were OK, but having multiple psionic defenses was an over complication that felt arbitrary in its implementation, with different bonuses or penalties against each specific separate type of psionic attack (more bookkeeping), and certain defenses being objectively superior to others against ALL powers, making the need for different psionic defenses pointless and superfluous (EVERYONE was gonna use Tower of Iron Will--the best psionic defense--regardless).

The designers wove psionics into the setting so well, I can't imagine Dark Sun without it. It's one of the things that differentiates it from other D&D settings.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1117636The designers wove psionics into the setting so well, I can't imagine Dark Sun without it. It's one of the things that differentiates it from other D&D settings.

True. Love 'em or hate 'em (or feel ambivalent about them) psionics were a major feature of the setting that they managed to work well into the setting's background and lore, even if the designers were basically forced to include them initially as a gimmick to sell the Psionicists Handbook. Part of the reason was that the setting was built from the ground up with psionics in mind since early in the setting's development, rather than added later as an afterthought. Another thing I think helped was the alien feeling of the world, which had an almost sci-fi feel to it that worked well with psychic abilities. And every other beasty had some sort of psionic trick up their sleeves (or scaly claws).