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Why does Tolkienesque fantasy dominate the market?

Started by BoxCrayonTales, September 12, 2016, 10:00:32 AM

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TristramEvans

#45
September 15, 2016, 01:47:21 AM
Quote from: The Butcher;919449D&D's "bootleg Tolkien" gets Gandalf and Bilbo to team up with Conan and Odo of Bayeux to defeat Dracula.

I think D&D should use that as an advertising slogan.

Opaopajr

#46
September 15, 2016, 02:20:50 PM
Quote from: TristramEvans;919455Just to go all geek-pedantic on your metaphor, GoBots are more like E.R. Eddison to Tolkien's Transformers, being as they predated them. Deformers were be the more accurate metaphor ;)...

Nice! I learn something new everyday! I don't remember seeing a "Deformers" logo before, though I vaguely remember the Thrifty store variants (mom would get us a $0.15 scoop each if we were good and patient). Now where the fuck's that sweet hat tip silhouette gif... hmm, I might end up learning that tomorrow.
:)
Just make your fuckin\' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what\'s interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it\'s more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
-- talysman

daniel_ream

#47
September 15, 2016, 03:08:01 PM
Quote from: TristramEvans;919457Since when is reality based on majority consensus?

Reality isn't, but in the context of popularity and market penetration, perception is king.
D&D is becoming Self-Referential.  It is no longer Setting Referential, where it takes references outside of itself. It is becoming like Ouroboros in its self-gleaning for tropes, no longer attached, let alone needing outside context.
~ Opaopajr

Bren

#48
September 15, 2016, 04:32:19 PM
Quote from: DavetheLost;919279The Tolkien mania that started at about the same time D&D hit created a sea change in fantasy Read LotR then read Urshurak and The Sword of Shanara.
I read Sword of Shannara. You can't make me read it again.

Did Urshurak have a female hero and some type of crystal focused ray guns? If so, then you can't make me read it again either.
Currently running: Runequest in Glorantha + Call of Cthulhu   Currently playing: D&D 5E + RQ
My Blog: For Honor...and Intrigue
I have a gold medal from Ravenswing and Gronan owes me bee

AaronBrown99

#49
September 15, 2016, 04:48:23 PM
Quote from: Bren;919603I read Sword of Shannara. You can't make me read it again.

JUDGE: "Bren, you have been found guilty of driving 15mph over the limit in a construction zone...as punishment, you will be forced to read The Sword of Shannara three times and provide a book report to this court of no less than 1500 words."

DEFENSE ATTORNEY: "CRUEL AND UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT, YOUR HONOR!"
"Who cares if the classes are balanced? A Cosmo-Knight and a Vagabond walk into a Juicer Bar... Forget it Jake, it\'s Rifts."  - CRKrueger

Shipyard Locked

#50
September 15, 2016, 05:05:50 PM
Quote from: Bren;919603Did Urshurak have a female hero ... If so, then you can't make me read it again either.

Woah, hey, what?
What's wrong with female heroes?

Christopher Brady

#51
September 15, 2016, 05:11:07 PM
The early Shannara series had the issue of having the main lead be an observer to the actual action except for the last arc, in which they don't do much than hold the magic macguffin.
"And now, my friends, a Dragon\'s toast!  To life\'s little blessings:  wars, plagues and all forms of evil.  Their presence keeps us alert --- and their absence makes us grateful." -T.A. Barron[/SIZE]

Bren

#52
September 15, 2016, 05:31:15 PM
Quote from: AaronBrown99;919607JUDGE: "Bren, you have been found guilty of driving 15mph over the limit in a construction zone...as punishment, you will be forced to read The Sword of Shannara three times and provide a book report to this court of no less than 1500 words."

DEFENSE ATTORNEY: "CRUEL AND UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT, YOUR HONOR!"
Very cruel and thankfully very unusual. :D

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;919612Woah, hey, what?
What's wrong with female heroes?
Suddenly I feel all nostalgic for TBP. :)
Currently running: Runequest in Glorantha + Call of Cthulhu   Currently playing: D&D 5E + RQ
My Blog: For Honor...and Intrigue
I have a gold medal from Ravenswing and Gronan owes me bee

Soylent Green

#53
September 15, 2016, 06:42:07 PM
Quote from: DavetheLost;919279As for why Tolkien and D&D have become so popular I think it is because they draw so heavily on the foundational mythogy and legendry of Western and Northern Europe, King Arthur, the Rhinegold, knights in shining armor, wizards, the stories that we all grow up hearing in some form or other even if only in rewritten versions (like LotR).

I am not saying the "foundational mythology" thing isn't true, but why does it matter? What do gamers specifically get out from this? Why this not reflected in movies or TV shows to the same extent? Or for that matter why doesn't the equally powerful mythology of the Wild West or of the superhero genre play have quite the same impact? Is there a suggestion that gamers have a hidden, romantic yearning for simpler times (as they type away on their iPhones)?
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Shipyard Locked

#54
September 15, 2016, 07:27:43 PM
Quote from: Soylent Green;919635I am not saying the "foundational mythology" thing isn't true, but why does it matter? What do gamers specifically get out from this? Why this not reflected in movies or TV shows to the same extent? Or for that matter why doesn't the equally powerful mythology of the Wild West or of the superhero genre play have quite the same impact? Is there a suggestion that gamers have a hidden, romantic yearning for simpler times (as they type away on their iPhones)?


The western had a pretty long and substantial day in the sun as a genre, so there's that. Meanwhile, movies and TV shows about medieval fantasy done right are more expensive than contemporary cop shows, reality shows, and sitcoms, so that's always held them back a bit.

I think the superhero genre is experiencing a boom right now similar to what the western went through. If the right things happen in the market I could easily imagine the superhero genre rising several ranks of popularity in tabletop form.

AaronBrown99

#55
September 15, 2016, 07:53:54 PM
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;919612What's wrong with female heroes?

What's wrong is that they're typically just male characters in girl costumes (see any Joss Whedon 90lb girl knocking out 200lb men with one hit).

GRRRRL POWER!

It gets old FAST.
"Who cares if the classes are balanced? A Cosmo-Knight and a Vagabond walk into a Juicer Bar... Forget it Jake, it\'s Rifts."  - CRKrueger

TristramEvans

#56
September 15, 2016, 09:06:11 PM
Quote from: Soylent Green;919635I am not saying the "foundational mythology" thing isn't true, but why does it matter?

Because its a "language" all (Western European) gamers speak. D&D's success lies in it's quick and easy buy-in from players based on stereotypes and cliches everyone recognizes an understands. Makes the GM's job easier, and easier for players to get a footing and visualize the implied setting (really allows there to be an implied setting in the first place). As opposed to a game set in, say a pseudo-Song China, where the majority of Western players likely won't offhand know what to expect, whats expected of them, or what things are. The reason D&D looks so different now in comparison to 1st and 2nd edition, is that part of that "common language" now includes masses of anime and videogame influences.

TristramEvans

#57
September 15, 2016, 09:10:31 PM
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;919612Woah, hey, what?
What's wrong with female heroes?

Too many random bear attacks during that time of the month

cranebump

#58
September 15, 2016, 10:07:26 PM
Quote from: AaronBrown99;919648What's wrong is that they're typically just male characters in girl costumes (see any Joss Whedon 90lb girl knocking out 200lb men with one hit).

GRRRRL POWER!

It gets old FAST.

Amen. And now that they're makin another A Wrinkle in Time film with the screenwriter from Frozen, I worry they're going to fuck over one of my favorite childhood books. Pretty sure if they also got hold of The Haunted Mountain, they'd gender swap the boy hero or turn him into fucking Peta.
"When devils will the blackest sins put on, they do suggest at first with heavenly shows..."

yosemitemike

#59
September 15, 2016, 10:28:16 PM
Quote from: cranebump;919690Amen. And now that they're makin another A Wrinkle in Time film with the screenwriter from Frozen, I worry they're going to fuck over one of my favorite childhood books. Pretty sure if they also got hold of The Haunted Mountain, they'd gender swap the boy hero or turn him into fucking Peta.

The other one was awful so my hopes are not high.
"I am certain, however, that nothing has done so much to destroy the juridical safeguards of individual freedom as the striving after this mirage of social justice."― Friedrich Hayek
Another former RPGnet member permanently banned for calling out the staff there on their abdication of their responsibilities as moderators and admins and their abject surrender to the whims of the shrillest and most self-righteous members of the community.
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