Quote from: Lunamancer on August 27, 2021, 06:01:37 PM

Quote from: Rhedyn on August 27, 2021, 05:00:03 PM
This really highlights the knuckle dragging lack of sapience of "conservatives". Your reading comprehension skills must have been learned from Fox news since Teachers aren't trained to teach the mental gymnastics required to come to such conclusions.

You're just mad because I roasted your antivax ass.

Quote1) Children under 12 still cannot legally receive the vaccine in the US.

Now that it's approved, doctors can administer the vaccine for "off-label" use to young children. Right now the number of new pediatric hospital admissions for COVID are at record levels, and you're still clinging on to this tired old antivaxxer line.

QuoteThe vaccine is not as effective for them

LOL! Riiiiight. Vaccines aren't effective. Tell that to small pox.

Quote3) People with a history of anaphylactic reactions to vaccines may or may not be recommended by their allergist to get the vaccine. Since everyone will contract delta at some point, vaccination is still recommended even if it has to be done in a hospital with staff ready to act.

You mean that same hospital staff that are refusing to get vaccinated themselves? Why would I trust those anti-vaxxers when there's a perfectly good table set up in the 7-11 parking lot?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie

Quote from: Rhedyn on August 27, 2021, 10:26:47 AM

Quote from: Zalman on August 27, 2021, 09:53:26 AM

Quote from: Ocule on August 27, 2021, 09:40:28 AM
Good thing you arent at my table then none of us are vaccinated.

Good for you! Antibodies are better protection than vaccination. Gamers who insist on vaccinating to avoid antibodies are a danger to all of us RPGers, and are surely the worst sort of sociopath.

Case in point:
1) All actual scientific evidence suggest that vaccination provides stronger protection than recovering from COVID-19.

2) All actual scientific evidence suggest that the vaccinated spread significantly less than those who recovered from COVID-19.

3) Getting vaccinated is still recommended for those who have been infected.

4) All evidence says getting COVID-19 is infinity more risky than being vaccinated.

Nothing political here. Yet "conservatives" make it political and we all know why. COVID-19 did hurt city congested minorities more than white people so they are pro-plague. That is no longer the case because of vaccination, but it's a little to late for conservatives to back out now without just admitting that they are suicidally racist.

And yet y'all wonder why actual sapient people would rather avoid having conservatives at the table?

This has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic of this thread. Post off-topic like this again and you'll be banned.

Quote from: Ocule on August 27, 2021, 11:25:02 AM

Quote from: Rhedyn on August 27, 2021, 10:26:47 AM

Quote from: Zalman on August 27, 2021, 09:53:26 AM

Quote from: Ocule on August 27, 2021, 09:40:28 AM
Good thing you arent at my table then none of us are vaccinated.

Good for you! Antibodies are better protection than vaccination. Gamers who insist on vaccinating to avoid antibodies are a danger to all of us RPGers, and are surely the worst sort of sociopath.

Case in point:
1) All actual scientific evidence suggest that vaccination provides stronger protection than recovering from COVID-19.

2) All actual scientific evidence suggest that the vaccinated spread significantly less than those who recovered from COVID-19.

3) Getting vaccinated is still recommended for those who have been infected.

4) All evidence says getting COVID-19 is infinity more risky than being vaccinated.

Nothing political here. Yet "conservatives" make it political and we all know why. COVID-19 did hurt city congested minorities more than white people so they are pro-plague. That is no longer the case because of vaccination, but it's a little to late for conservatives to back out now without just admitting that they are suicidally racist.

And yet y'all wonder why actual sapient people would rather avoid having conservatives at the table?

And you never stopped to wonder why people aren't getting the vaccine? You just label them as conservative, and to you conservative means racist and move on. Have you ever stopped to think maybe it's just lack of trust in institutions that have done something to damage that trust in the past? and that while the scientific method is in fact a good way of doing things, people don't trust the people who are telling them about the findings and how easy it is to manipulate the data or how we have had them do shady things in the past.

Fact: The pandemic was used as an excuse to greatly expand the power of the governing bodies all over the world.
Also fact: during the pandemic governments, and hospitals manipulated the data on covid19 in order to secure more power and more funding.
Also Fact: The CDC and other government organizations have performed illegal medical experiments on the us citizens without their knowledge or consent.
Also Fact: There are several conflicts of interest between the makers of the vaccine and government entities.
Also Fact: There was financial incentive to rush the vaccine through the trials, and has not been as thoroughly tested as known vaccines for things such as the flu, chicken pox, tetanus etc.

And now for other circumstantially related facts:
All medication produces various effects on the body, the desired effect is called the theraputic effect. IE You take ibuprofen for a headache, the desired effect is a pain reliever. A side effect is an undesired effect or effect other than the desired effect. Keeping on with ibuprofen, side effects can include stomach aches and even ulcers, i believe also over a period time damage to bone density as well as an effect on the liver. Given the usual time for these side effects to manifest over using it a few times, you have decided that these side effects are acceptable weighed against the desired effect of pain relief. Vaccines are no different.

After going on about my body my choice chanting it down the streets and not shutting the fuck up about it when it came to things like abortion where you are literally making a choice to terminate another life, now all of a sudden getting this vaccine is no longer the choice of the person receiving it.

Also if I understand your post correctly, you hold the position that any conservative who voices their opinion should lose their job? If this is correct what in the actual fuck is wrong with you?

This post has nothing to do with the topic. Post off-topic like this again and you will be banned.

Quote from: Lunamancer on August 27, 2021, 04:46:06 PM

Quote from: Rhedyn on August 27, 2021, 02:17:45 PM
A pandemic that should be over, is killing children who cannot be vaccinated because of idiots like you.

If it was just conservatives dying and not the immunocompromised, those potentially allergic to the vaccine, and children also dying, then I would not care.

You're against vaccinating children, grandma, and people who say they have an allergy? Sounds like an anti-vaxxer conspiracy theory. The vax has FDA approval and numerous studies confirm it is safe.

QuoteBut one innocent life in the US is worth more than the 100+ million conservative lives in the US. (I'm not extending this principal to the whole globe)

Trump only got 74 million votes. So what happened to the other 26+ million? Are you saying election fraud threw out 26+ million votes for Trump? Come on, man. Biden beat him fair and square with 81 million votes. Get over it.

Orange man bad. Orange vax good.

This is completely off-topic to this thread. Post off-topic again and you will be banned.

Quote from: Rhedyn on August 27, 2021, 12:04:38 PM

Quote from: Ocule on August 27, 2021, 11:25:02 AMAlso if I understand your post correctly, you hold the position that any conservative who voices their opinion should lose their job? If this is correct what in the actual fuck is wrong with you?

No, every conservative should lose their life.

That blessed reality is too difficult to achieve in an ethical fashion. Both finding a method specific enough to be ethical and a method that does not corrupt the performers. You asshole pro-life chanting, child murderers are not worth the air you breathe. Regardless of whatever stupid twisted faux logic you decide to replace peer reviewed science with. Conservatives losing their jobs is woefully short of what they actually deserve.

Right, you know what? I think this one goes right over the line. So forget my earlier warning.

The OSR claims another victim.

Quote from: Shasarak on August 27, 2021, 07:22:19 PM
The OSR claims another victim.

Greetings!

*Laughing* Cheers, Shasarak!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: King Tyranno on August 27, 2021, 02:56:09 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on August 27, 2021, 02:15:07 PM

Quote from: King Tyranno on August 25, 2021, 08:33:13 AM
I'm just getting into OSR related stuff after nearly 15 years playing Pen and Paper RPGs and Wargames. I'm really into a lot of the OSR mentality. Specifically I love that the GM should be the final arbiter of the rules. Great. I've had so much bullshit in the past 5 years from the Critical Role lot whenever they worm their way into my games.

I've recently got into several arguments online and IRL. And it always starts the same way. I've always believed that stories come OUT of whatever game you are playing. And that story is exclusive to and can ONLY happen in the group you are in. I say what I have said above. That I am really starting to like the OSR and I think that's how I want to run my games. Players shouldn't come in with this pre-determined epic adventure they want to play. And I'm not a fan of the Mercer style of fudging dice and pretending to play something resembling DnD in a much more scripted and theatrical way. It doesn't matter where I am, /tg/, Reddit, etc. People seem to get really personally offended when I just mention the OSR in passing as something I'm starting to like. I never say my way is the best way, just that it's my way and I prefer it for my games. I'm not trying to change anyone else's minds. But they always go back to several shouted out assertions. Especially after they died to a goblin at level 1 and have to make a new character.  I didn't make the goblin OP. I just enforced the rules fairly and you had some crappy roles. I am not fudging the dice for you.

"You're just a fucking grognard. DnD is much better now than that old stuff."

"omg you're demanding DnD change to meet your narrow expectations."

"You just want to be an edgy try hard making it hard for no reason. DnD should be fun. Not hard."

I don't think I'm anything special as a GM. I just really want to go back to the idea of DnD as a game of chance. It doesn't always go like you expect. But you have fun and laugh about the dumb rolls afterwards.

To be fair, you do sound a bit like an edgelord.  Particularly in your constant characterization of 5e as Mercer's type of game, when really Mercer's type of game isn't necessarily a good representation of 5e which does put the power back in the hands of the DM.  We've never fudged dice with 5e, I've never seen the designers of 5e encourage people to fudge dice, and fudging dice isn't some core concept of 5e.

As for OSR, have at it. It's a fine style of D&D. But you making it some chip on your shoulder and daring people to try and knock it off? Yeah, again, just you being a bit of an edgelord it seems. Play the game you want to play.

Here we go. Wanting to actually play DnD and not fudge dice is now "edgelord" behavior. Really showed me up here. Not liking 5E is edgelord behaviour.  I would've preferred nuance and not the exact strawman I made coming alive to prove me right.

The dice fudging part in no way, shape or form is one of the reasons I called you an edgelord. Not liking 5e is in no way shape or form a reason I gave for calling you an edgelord. You including those in your response however when I made it damn fucking clear I don't fudge dice, 5e doesn't fudge dice, the OSR is a fine style of play and you should play what you like does however further your rep as an edgelord. Stop trying so hard. You have our attention without begging for it.

And you calling my response a strawman when all you just did is strawman my response is even more evidence. Do you think people think you're cool if you're a dick to your peers?

Quote from: oggsmash on August 27, 2021, 03:42:52 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on August 27, 2021, 02:46:12 PM

Quote from: SonTodoGato on August 27, 2021, 02:26:09 PM

Quote from: Rhedyn on August 27, 2021, 02:17:45 PM

A pandemic that should be over, is killing children who cannot be vaccinated because of idiots like you.

If it was just conservatives dying and not the immunocompromised, those potentially allergic to the vaccine, and children also dying, then I would not care.

But one innocent life in the US is worth more than the 100+ million conservative lives in the US. (I'm not extending this principal to the whole globe)

If you want to continue this discussion do it at the thread dedicated to covid and vaccines. Funny how you can get banned in this forum for "racism" but not for saying conservative lives are worthless.

Where are you coming from on that whine about "get banned in this forum for "racism"?"

  Pundit banned a dude a few weeks ago, for... you guessed it, racism.  which is fine, however, talking about killing millions of people seems just fine...

You mean the guy praising the actual murderer?  (not being sarcastic or snarky - I think I might have missed the one you're referencing?)

Quote from: King Tyranno on August 27, 2021, 02:56:09 PMHere we go. Wanting to actually play DnD and not fudge dice is now "edgelord" behavior. Really showed me up here. Not liking 5E is edgelord behaviour.

I don't agree with Rhedyn on plenty of stuff - but I agree that you're not just expressing dislike for 5E. As I noted back in reply #21, you're actively insulting people who do enjoy 5E - calling them ignorant and cheaters who don't understand the right way to game. That's edgy behavior, and it puts many people off.

There are plenty of people who are happy playing either 5E or OSR, but if you come at them telling them they're wrong and stupid for enjoying 5E, then they're naturally going to push back - even if they might also be happy playing OSR.

Replying to your earlier post:

Quote from: King Tyranno on August 25, 2021, 08:22:18 PM

Quote from: jhkim on August 25, 2021, 06:44:51 PM
From my view, it's just a preference. I'm fine with OSR, but I'm also fine with any other RPG style. As long as people are playing from the same understanding with each other, then they're not cheating - they're just playing differently. From my view, preferring one style of RPG or another isn't proof of any real-world virtue or accomplishment. No one is slaying real dragons - we're all just playing make-believe.

I am liberal when it comes to interpreting DnD rules. I'm not full on worshiping the bible of Gygax like some OSR people are but I gave my opinion of why I find the storygaming and critical role to be the wrong way to play. It's as close as I will ever get to saying such a thing. But only because it is the wrong way. In the same way bringing hockey sticks to a football game is wrong. And then arguing that you can play football anyway you want because some guy on you tube said so.  Feel free to disagree.

Yes, I can play any way I want. It's a hobby game played for fun. It doesn't matter what Gygax said or what some guy on Youtube says. In my own game with my own group, we get to choose our own rules and style. We can play by-the-book D&D1E, or we can play a homebrew combination of Talislanta and Gamma World, or our own 5E variant.

I personally find it especially weird for "old school" to say that everyone has to play in X style or they're wrong - since back in the 1970s when I started playing RPGs, the thing I found really awesome about them was that you *didn't* have to stick to just one way to play. There were some Killer DMs and some Monty Haul DMs and some worldbuilding DMs and some dramatic DMs. Some people homebrewed their own rules and strange old rules; some people played by the book.

Quote from: jhkim on August 28, 2021, 02:29:05 AM

Quote from: King Tyranno on August 27, 2021, 02:56:09 PMHere we go. Wanting to actually play DnD and not fudge dice is now "edgelord" behavior. Really showed me up here. Not liking 5E is edgelord behaviour.

I don't agree with Rhedyn on plenty of stuff - but I agree that you're not just expressing dislike for 5E. As I noted back in reply #21, you're actively insulting people who do enjoy 5E - calling them ignorant and cheaters who don't understand the right way to game. That's edgy behavior, and it puts many people off.

There are plenty of people who are happy playing either 5E or OSR, but if you come at them telling them they're wrong and stupid for enjoying 5E, then they're naturally going to push back - even if they might also be happy playing OSR.

Replying to your earlier post:

Quote from: King Tyranno on August 25, 2021, 08:22:18 PM

Quote from: jhkim on August 25, 2021, 06:44:51 PM
From my view, it's just a preference. I'm fine with OSR, but I'm also fine with any other RPG style. As long as people are playing from the same understanding with each other, then they're not cheating - they're just playing differently. From my view, preferring one style of RPG or another isn't proof of any real-world virtue or accomplishment. No one is slaying real dragons - we're all just playing make-believe.

I am liberal when it comes to interpreting DnD rules. I'm not full on worshiping the bible of Gygax like some OSR people are but I gave my opinion of why I find the storygaming and critical role to be the wrong way to play. It's as close as I will ever get to saying such a thing. But only because it is the wrong way. In the same way bringing hockey sticks to a football game is wrong. And then arguing that you can play football anyway you want because some guy on you tube said so.  Feel free to disagree.

Yes, I can play any way I want. It's a hobby game played for fun. It doesn't matter what Gygax said or what some guy on Youtube says. In my own game with my own group, we get to choose our own rules and style. We can play by-the-book D&D1E, or we can play a homebrew combination of Talislanta and Gamma World, or our own 5E variant.

I personally find it especially weird for "old school" to say that everyone has to play in X style or they're wrong - since back in the 1970s when I started playing RPGs, the thing I found really awesome about them was that you *didn't* have to stick to just one way to play. There were some Killer DMs and some Monty Haul DMs and some worldbuilding DMs and some dramatic DMs. Some people homebrewed their own rules and strange old rules; some people played by the book.

Greetings!

I have to agree with you here, Jhkim, especially with your closing paragraph, e.g "I personally find it especially weird..."Back in the day--as well as with more than a few gamers nowadays--we would play D&D, but also add in weird elements from Arduin, Palladium, Talislanta, and such like, as you also testified. And it was all considered "D&D". That kind of approach was certainly not "Tournament AD&D"--but I suppose it would fall squarely under the umbrella of "Gonzo D&D". Certainly, while the two styles of running a campaign were distinctly different back then--as well as now--they are both cherished traditions of D&D gaming.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Think about the amount of gaming material this forum would generate if everyone paid their joeskytax. 

Quote from: Shasarak on August 26, 2021, 07:18:56 PM

Quote from: Omega on August 26, 2021, 05:42:59 PM
Whats Role Playing? To a storygamer - Everything on Earth.

Everything except those powergaming min/maxing bigots.

And yet invariably the worst powergaming and abuse of being "in character" I have seen or gotten complain reports on... is from storygamers.

Quote from: jhkim on August 28, 2021, 02:29:05 AM

Quote from: King Tyranno on August 27, 2021, 02:56:09 PMHere we go. Wanting to actually play DnD and not fudge dice is now "edgelord" behavior. Really showed me up here. Not liking 5E is edgelord behaviour.

I don't agree with Rhedyn on plenty of stuff - but I agree that you're not just expressing dislike for 5E. As I noted back in reply #21, you're actively insulting people who do enjoy 5E - calling them ignorant and cheaters who don't understand the right way to game. That's edgy behavior, and it puts many people off.

There are plenty of people who are happy playing either 5E or OSR, but if you come at them telling them they're wrong and stupid for enjoying 5E, then they're naturally going to push back - even if they might also be happy playing OSR.

Replying to your earlier post:

Quote from: King Tyranno on August 25, 2021, 08:22:18 PM

Quote from: jhkim on August 25, 2021, 06:44:51 PM
From my view, it's just a preference. I'm fine with OSR, but I'm also fine with any other RPG style. As long as people are playing from the same understanding with each other, then they're not cheating - they're just playing differently. From my view, preferring one style of RPG or another isn't proof of any real-world virtue or accomplishment. No one is slaying real dragons - we're all just playing make-believe.

I am liberal when it comes to interpreting DnD rules. I'm not full on worshiping the bible of Gygax like some OSR people are but I gave my opinion of why I find the storygaming and critical role to be the wrong way to play. It's as close as I will ever get to saying such a thing. But only because it is the wrong way. In the same way bringing hockey sticks to a football game is wrong. And then arguing that you can play football anyway you want because some guy on you tube said so.  Feel free to disagree.

Yes, I can play any way I want. It's a hobby game played for fun. It doesn't matter what Gygax said or what some guy on Youtube says. In my own game with my own group, we get to choose our own rules and style. We can play by-the-book D&D1E, or we can play a homebrew combination of Talislanta and Gamma World, or our own 5E variant.

I personally find it especially weird for "old school" to say that everyone has to play in X style or they're wrong - since back in the 1970s when I started playing RPGs, the thing I found really awesome about them was that you *didn't* have to stick to just one way to play. There were some Killer DMs and some Monty Haul DMs and some worldbuilding DMs and some dramatic DMs. Some people homebrewed their own rules and strange old rules; some people played by the book.

I'm sick to death of repeating myself. So I will make this incredibly clear. Just because I am saying the Critical Role storygaming way is wrong. Doesn't mean that I am saying my way is right and everyone else is wrong. RPG Pundit himself has much the same attitude. I am saying one way is completely wrong. There are other ways I have an opinion on and disagree with but are not wrong. And my way that I prefer. But I never said my way was the right way. I am getting tired of repeating the same few points interrupted by mentally ill leftists. I am not stopping anyone from playing DnD how they want so taking it so personally that I insulted the way you play DnD shouldn't affect you. If your problem with my posts is that I just don't like Critical Role then I am sorry but my opinion on that is not changing. I would be happy to live and let live if their bullshit didn't affect nearly every campaign I've tried to run for 5 years. To the point I had to capitulate to these bastards or just not play DnD due to lack of choice in groups. I'll admit I'm bitter but wouldn't you be if every group just played in the ways you didn't like and you were either forced to do it their way or just not play in the vain hope this fad will pass and you'll find groups in 5 to 10 years time?

As an aside, I just ran my first b/x game with the same group I was forced to do storygaming with. They said they were getting bored of that. So I offered the change up of OSR style rules. I'm no scientist so don't take this as data but that same group that insisted on no death and "just having fun" just had fun with my first session. They all actually went out of their way to tell me how much fun the dungeon was. Which has never happened to me before. I'm not actually that confident in my skills as a GM so that was really nice to hear. Someone even died and they just rolled up a new character in 10 minutes. No big deal.

Also can we get past this dumb idea of Edgelords just being people who don't follow the consensus. That's pathetic. I am not an edgy person just because I don't like 5E. Or I'm a "try hard". I don't even do all the hardcore things a "try hard" is supposed to do. I just enforce the rules fairly without hostility and allow the results of the dice to stand. Very try hard of me. An Edgelord is someone who acts intentionally edgy for attention "I'm gunna rape that NPC and describe in detail how I do it." not someone who has an opinion you disagree with. That's just as effective as calling me a bigot for the same reasons.

Quote from: Omega on August 28, 2021, 07:16:35 AM

Quote from: Shasarak on August 26, 2021, 07:18:56 PM

Quote from: Omega on August 26, 2021, 05:42:59 PM
Whats Role Playing? To a storygamer - Everything on Earth.

Everything except those powergaming min/maxing bigots.

And yet invariably the worst powergaming and abuse of being "in character" I have seen or gotten complain reports on... is from storygamers.

"Okay so I'm a tiefling and my father is Asmodeus and I'm like super oppresed by the bigoted humans.  Actually me and Dad get on really well but I'm super rebellious because I have this lesbian relationship with an Elf from Africa. And Dad gave me awesome powers to crush mortals with."

"That's.. a bit to overpowered for my tastes could you change that up a bit. I'm not giving you awesome powers just because your backstory says you have them. Also we don't have Africa in this setting."

"OMG you are so restrictive an railroading. Y'know, Matt Mercer said we can play DnD in our own way. This game is shit!"

"Okay, I'll ignore that. I told you before you joined that we're going for a low fantasy low power vibe. There are plenty of other groups for you if you don't like that.

"Stop excluding me!"