I just don't give a fuck what people think of my gaming. I still love my d6 Star Wars, Mekton II and Zeta, Basic D&D/Labyrinth Lord, and all the flavors of Traveller. Newer shit is just that, new - it is not necessarily better.

Quote from: jeff37923;845396Newer shit is just that, new - it is not necessarily better.

Even if one could prove newer shit is objectively better than what I'm playing, that does not mean it would be better for everyone.  For example, I think that average combat encounter in a RPG should last 5-10 minutes (and I consider any that last over 20 minutes to be way too long) and I have no interest in minis games in the middle of my RPG. Therefore, even if one could prove that D&D 3.x or D&D 4e were objectively far better than 0e, B/X, BECMI, and 1e system-wise, they still would not be better for me as combat in 3.x and 4e takes far longer than I enjoy and generally needs minis/markers and battlemats which I have no interest in using.

I play what works best for me enjoyment-wise. Others should play what works best for them. It really doesn't matter what anyone outside the group of people you are playing with think about the RPG you choose the play. If only twenty people in the world like the game I play and five of them are playing in my game what does it matter that thousands of people play games X, Y, and Z? Or what does it matter that thousands of people think the game I play is something outdated and worthless and something that only people they consider stupid play? Neither I nor the players in my game need their approval to have fun, after all.

I apologize for nothing. It would be like apologizing for fucking Atari 2600 Combat.

I loved the fuck out of AD&D 1st Ed back in the day. I played it with teens (My own age) and college kids and middle-age dudes (Older than me). Good times, good times. Being into 1st ed Ad&D in the eighties was like losing your virginity to Labyrinth-era Jennifer Connelly. Over and over and over again.

As much as I cherish D&DV and playing today, it's not any "Better" than it was in 1985. RULES DON'T MATTER... they're just the house you throw your party in. Dungeon Master  creativity, enthusiasm, and storytelling skills and player enthusiasm are more important than the rules every single day. I once  played in a 2nd Edition AD&D game ran in a  rotting low-income housing project and DM'ed by a meth-head that had more pure energy and fun and creativity and role-playing and drama than anything anybody ever did with FATE. Back in May I ran an D&DV "Free RPG Day" event for a local comic-book store and the players were all super-hyper and into it and I felt like I was riding the third rail of a subway train. The "rules" faded into soft background noise and almost became irrelevant.


RULES. DO. NOT. FUCKING . MATTER.

I'm drunk, forgive me if I'm rambling.

Quote from: Ulairi;845308Why do so many people seem to dislike AD&D now?

When it came out, AD&D was a big fish in a small pond. In the 30 years hence hundreds if not thousands of games have been published to cater to everyone's tastes. And everyone has different tastes.

The only problem is when people start confusing their personal tastes with objective quality.

People get embarrassed by weird shit.

It wasn't until the 1980s that Model Railroader magazine's editors and audience both stopped being embarrassed by being grown men (and some women) playing with toy trains.  Really, especially in the 50s, some of the "how to talk about your hobby" stories are genuinely painful to read.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;845423People get embarrassed by weird shit.

It wasn't until the 1980s that Model Railroader magazine's editors and audience both stopped being embarrassed by being grown men (and some women) playing with toy trains.  Really, especially in the 50s, some of the "how to talk about your hobby" stories are genuinely painful to read.

Dude. Check your facebook.

Quote from: Beagle;845335like manically masturbating virgins talk about sex).

From "The Temple of the Eager Virgin," a bonus level goodie for my Kickstarter.

Quote from: benoist;845425dude. Check your facebook.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;845423It wasn't until the 1980s that Model Railroader magazine's editors and audience both stopped being embarrassed by being grown men (and some women) playing with toy trains.  Really, especially in the 50s, some of the "how to talk about your hobby" stories are genuinely painful to read.

And that's a key to it.  I've never contemplated it at quite that angle before, but you're right: the surest way to sabotage any proselytizing is to be ashamed of your hobby.

Quote from: tenbones;845407I apologize for nothing. It would be like apologizing for fucking Atari 2600 Combat.

I'm Canadian, I apologize for inflicting Justin Beiber on people.

But my gaming?  Mine.  I don't care who whines about how uncool it is.

Quote from: Just Another Snake Cult;845410I loved the fuck out of AD&D 1st Ed back in the day. [...] Good times, good times. Being into 1st ed Ad&D in the eighties was like losing your virginity to Labyrinth-era Jennifer Connelly. Over and over and over again.

AD&D 2e fan here, but the sentiment is shared.

I lament that I have only 500 characters to give for my signature.

And remember, if anyone gives you shit about it just quote Jennifer at them, "You have no power over me!"

Embarassed for playing AD&D? Never! Not even for Skills & Magic!

It was a great deal more fun than playing 3e, lemme tell ya!

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;845423People get embarrassed by weird shit..

THE PALEOLITHIC DUDE WHO PLAYED WITH GYGAX IS RIGHT!:cheerleader:

Quote from: tenbones;845407I apologize for nothing. It would be like apologizing for fucking Atari 2600 Combat.

This should only EVER be done if Adventure got jealous and was feeling neglected.

Quote from: Ulairi;845308Why do so many people seem to dislike AD&D now?

Outside of the pursuit of novelty players are traditionally driven by desire of more power, within a certain limit, and more importantly character customization. Also having rules make sense is a small but important factor for some.

Understand this is not about whether objectively AD&D doesn't or does have customization, whether it rules does or does not make sense. It about preferences, tastes, and preconceptions.

The other thing to keep in mind that people understand RPG concepts when it is explicitly modeled as part of the rules.

With AD&D higher power level is achieved through through more magic items which has been criticized over the years as playing "Monty Haul". Tacking on more character abilities is viewed as a more acceptable of taking the game to a higher power level.

However the primary reason why players move on from AD&D is character customization. In my experience most players don't crazy with this but nearly all player want to tweak or distinguish their characters in terms of game mechanics in some way. A fighter that can stealth, a magic user that can use a sword, a thief that knows a spell or two, etc.

Last in AD&D some parts of combat were not well explained or well designed by Gary Gygax. Particularly the initiative system and unarmed combat. It was bad enough that in my experience the way people actually played AD&D was to use in effect B/X (BECMI) combat with AD&D stuff (classes, spells, etc).

Coupled with Armor Class, Level, Hit Points and other AD&D abstractions a small but significant number of gamers looked to other system that made better sense from their point of view. Early examples are Runequest, Chivalry & Sorcery, and Rolemaster.

Starting with 2nd edition and especially with 3.0, D&D started to effectively address the most important issue of character customization along with increasing character power through the game mechanics.

The root of the problem is that despite his genius Gary Gygax forgot to include or didn't clearly explain how he handled these issues. From what we know now, he addressed all of these issues in developing D&D. That the abstractions of D&D do make sense when you understand what they represent.

For example, 1 hit dice used to roll hit points represents the amount of damage an experienced fighter can withstand. A hero is worth four experienced fighters and gets 4 hit dice, a super hero is worth eight experienced fighters and thus gets 8 hit dice.

Hit dice got turned into hit points by rolling a d6 adding or subtracting a modifier based on class. Later the class modifier got dropped in favor of using different dice.

The same with Armor Class, and other D&Disms that people criticize.

One nice thing about the OSR that all of this is now in the open and explained in a variety of ways. More importantly it has been shown through actual play that classic D&D campaigns can be run that are every bit as rich and detailed as what can be run in Runequest, Ars Magica, Numeria, Harn, etc, etc.

Of course because the OSR is a niche of the hobby this knowledge isn't that widespread. However it is readily available for anybody who does even a minimal effort looking up how to play AD&D. And there is a wealth of AD&D compatible product for all types of play styles. So the situation for AD&D is pretty good right now even tho we still have to put up with old preconceptions.