Is it primarily, escapism? We all just want to get away for a while?
Is it the expression of a secret inner yearning to create?
Or do we all just like to play make believe? Are RPGs just an outlet, for our inner child to express itself?
I'd say all of the above. With the caveat that my "inner yearning to create" has never been particularly secret -- I've always written stories and created settings. Indeed, my biggest weakness as a GM (when I was GM'ing) was a tendency to try railroading the group towards the story outcome I thought was most dramatic.
I'd also cite "the thrill of victory" as a reason. Nothing beats the rush of that natural 20 that finally fells the foe, or that first Fireball spell that barbecues a group of foes which would have been a serious threat two levels ago.
For me personally it's all three: the desire to create and express, to escape the mundanity of life, and to carry on preposterously with others, in that order.
Quote from: Man at Arms on February 13, 2025, 01:35:57 PMIs it primarily, escapism? We all just want to get away for a while?
Is it the expression of a secret inner yearning to create?
Or do we all just like to play make believe? Are RPGs just an outlet, for our inner child to express itself?
yes
I think this vid by BLG touches on this. Good roleplaying hit a lot of the same highs as acting.
My wife says it makes her feel like she's partaking in an action/adventure film, rather than just watching one.
There are other outlets for creative expression. There are other outlets to play pretend. Ditto world building, social interactions, collaborative exploration, the challenge of games, and simply showing some friends a good time. Combine that with food.
RPGs wrap it all up in one big package.
It's Sayre's law:
"Academic politics is the most vicious and bitter form of politics, because the stakes are so low."
Zero consequences for going all-in. So why not.
I actually think the reasoning is two fold and depends on if you're a DM or a Player.
From a DM side (at least for me) I think it's due to the sub-creative passion, to generate or emulate a living world and one which is reactive and acts almost independent of it's creator. much like how Tolkien outlined in his essay on Fairy Stories, a highly recommended read.
For Players I think it's the same reason people are enthralled in books, it's a light form of ego death, you inhabit another person's life and perspective and for a brief moment are transported to different world.
I also think this explains why the perversion of these desires are so toxic and inflamed. the perverse version of the DM is what some call "the failed novelist" someone who wants actors not living beings to populate their universe.
For the player it's the precious OC syndrome, they become obsessed with a character they can never really be. and view any attack or slight to that character as being personal to them as a person.
Quote from: Jaeger on February 13, 2025, 05:57:01 PM"Academic politics is the most vicious and bitter form of politics, because the stakes are so low."
From another perspective, they're the highest stakes possible: one's own self-image, and reputation with one's peers.
"Good name in man or woman, dear my lord,
Is the immediate jewel of their souls:
Who steals my purse steals trash; 'tis something, nothing;
'Twas mine, 'tis his, and has been slave to thousands:
But he that filches from me my good name
Robs me of that which not enriches him
And makes me poor indeed."
When you create a character, you bring the character to life by investing some of your ego into it. From that moment on, every time your character gets hurt, you will sort of feel it. Every time your character succeeds, you will cheer. Every time there's a setback, you'll groan. Yes, the player and the player character are distinct, but at the same time you can feel the things the character does like their thoughts and feelings and sensations are passing through a rubber hose that sneaks around the fourth wall.
I will often feel empathy for characters in fiction, but I think there's a special relationship between player and player character that really isn't true elsewhere in fiction.
There's also this weird brainteaser that pen, paper, books, and dice have all existed for several thousands of years. Enclaves of humanity have had high enough literacy rates to play RPGs for well over 1000. And yet...the roleplaying game wasn't invented then. It was invented almost exactly 30 years after the invention of the Turing Complete computer, even though nothing in the RPG parts list suggests that it requires a computer to play.
I find that fascinating.
I'd note that theater also ignites a lot of passion in people. Even amateur community theater has a deep hold on the people who participate. The same is true of many other creative hobbies.
I think of wargaming and model trains as well - but I'm less familiar with those communities.
That suggests it's the personal creative investment that's really crucial. Though I'd be curious about comparisons to other scenes as well.
RPGs promote creativity, exploring new worlds, diving deep into nearly anything, and work offline without even electricity. They should ignite passion. Books like Palladium's Compendium of Modern Weapons is just fun to read, even if you never intend on actually utilizing any of it. I grew up on obscure books like Terran Trade Authority and once I realized that RPGs were like a gigantic, functioning extension to that style of world-building, I was hooked for life.
1. Playing the role of a fictional inhabitant of another world/universe.
2. Working together with other players to creatively solve problems & overcome obstacles.
3. As A GM, creating setting material and bringing it to life.
Great point on working together. It's very human to enjoy problem-solving with others in a common goal. The 21st century erased a lot of opportunities for doing this in real life, shifting everything online and promoting individualistic ideals to such a degree that finding common goals with people around us is often difficult anymore.
My own enjoyment comes from:
- Writing - developing a world, history, people, culture, organizations, situations that are interesting to interact with
- Acting and improv - I've done a bunch of community theatre and improv and I like being able to do it in such a micro setting with just my friends
- Hanging out with friends in something interactive rather than passive, like watching tv/movies/sports
There's also a large segment of the population that, in my opinion, just gets way too worked up and hyperbolic about shit. D&D is not just a game! It is though. This is the crowd that says that a disappointing remake of an old cartoon raped their childhood. Calm the fuck down.
I have taught World Mythologies on a college campus that recently offered me a Humanities class in Roleplaying Studies as well as a Workforce Training course. The syllabus and lesson plan for each will cover many of the topics covered in this thread as well as problem solving and team building. These are just games, true. Aesop wrote just stories, too. Yet, like in those stories by Aesop we can learn about ourselves. The campus is very enthusiastic about this endeavor (I am really impressed by the enthusiasm and support) and I hope that people can learn and grow, using these games as a tool, albeit a fun one.
Quote from: Man at Arms on February 13, 2025, 01:35:57 PMIs it primarily, escapism? We all just want to get away for a while?
Is it the expression of a secret inner yearning to create?
Or do we all just like to play make believe? Are RPGs just an outlet, for our inner child to express itself?
Escapism is likely the least reason. I know alot of detractors just love to spout this. But the greater majority of players are not into RPGs for "wish fulfillment" and whatever other derogatories.
Adding to the list from experience.
Some are attracted to the sort of shared story. Some love being part of a story that they never can tell how will go. Others like to experience the setting and people. Immersion. Not storygamer "muh immershun!!!"
Some like the random aspect. It brings out the creative side. Which sometimes feels like thuis is why the more nasty of the eurogamers despise RPGs or try to turn them into storygames.
Some like the strategy and exploration aspects.
Some like the interactions with NPCs and PCs.
Some love the exploration and discovery aspects.
And so many more.
Its a great way to hang out with friends and do something, that is cooperative and interactive, where the only purpose is for everyone to be entertained while at the same time also pretending to do something that is very very far from regular life.
For my group I think a lot of it is also exploring/solving/optimizing the system while for me as a GM it is making the system work and adjusting the system as characters grow.
Quote from: yosemitemike on February 14, 2025, 06:18:57 PMThis is the crowd that says that a disappointing remake of an old cartoon raped their childhood. Calm the fuck down.
I wouldn't necessarily say raped, how about "made inappropriate gestures and lewd comments."
Quote from: yosemitemike on February 14, 2025, 06:18:57 PMa disappointing remake of an old cartoon raped their childhood.
Jokes on them, I always expect
nothing from modern remakes so I'm never disappointed.
Scooby-Doo is one of the few cartoon franchises that's somehow adapted with the times without ever getting too far from itself, Mindy Kaling's Velma aside (she actually wasn't allowed to include Scooby because it was too deviant of an adaptation).
Why do some football fans paint themselves in their teams colors and go shirtless in the snow?
I suspect its the same dynamic at play... intense love can entwine with your self-image.
Now think about that but also the person is an insufferable dickhead...
It's just tribalism.
Go sit in a room full of:
PC nerds and talk about AMD vs. NVIDIA
Gun enthusiasts and talk about how the 9mm is superior to the .45. Then pull in new cool motherfuckers rocking 5.7mm
Comic fans - Superman vs. Thor
Put enough people together doing a "thing" for that "thing" to offer other options, you'll get your tribal lines set up and conflict of opinion will happen, and passions for their side will always deepen. RPG's are no different.
Quote from: tenbones on February 20, 2025, 02:48:28 PMIt's just tribalism.
Go sit in a room full of:
PC nerds and talk about AMD vs. NVIDIA
Gun enthusiasts and talk about how the 9mm is superior to the .45. Then pull in new cool motherfuckers rocking 5.7mm
Comic fans - Superman vs. Thor
Put enough people together doing a "thing" for that "thing" to offer other options, you'll get your tribal lines set up and conflict of opinion will happen, and passions for their side will always deepen. RPG's are no different.
Greetings!
*Laughing* Everyone that knows about weapons, KNOWS that the .45 is the best.
I have trusted my life with my Glock .45 for years now. The Glock .45 is an absolute beast! *Laughing*
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Yeah I think it might not so much be RPGs as hobbies. I see LOTS more passion from people with their hobbies than they have in their actual careers many times. I agree about the gun nut/nerds they are some of the worst with the things they will argue with or hit the "well...actually..." to anyone who listens.
I do think for a lot of players (oddly especially the older ones) they came to enjoy Table top RPGs when they were quite young and feel a long lasting connection and emotional attachment (similar to how your mind tends to "choose" some preferred genre of music during those younger years) that is stronger than maybe some of the "new" converts, as I think a good deal of the new players came to the hobby as actual adults (which I think was a bit more rare in say the 80's past college age).
Quote from: SHARK on February 20, 2025, 03:38:15 PMGreetings!
*Laughing* Everyone that knows about weapons, KNOWS that the .45 is the best.
I have trusted my life with my Glock .45 for years now. The Glock .45 is an absolute beast! *Laughing*
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Of course .45 is the best. It's the goddamn katana of rounds. I do have to admit... that 5.7's numbers are looking kinda hot tho...
I think part of it has to do with the type of person who tends to be drawn to these games. Certain personality types or whatever you want to call it.
Quote from: SHARK on February 20, 2025, 03:38:15 PMQuote from: tenbones on February 20, 2025, 02:48:28 PMIt's just tribalism.
Go sit in a room full of:
PC nerds and talk about AMD vs. NVIDIA
Gun enthusiasts and talk about how the 9mm is superior to the .45. Then pull in new cool motherfuckers rocking 5.7mm
Comic fans - Superman vs. Thor
Put enough people together doing a "thing" for that "thing" to offer other options, you'll get your tribal lines set up and conflict of opinion will happen, and passions for their side will always deepen. RPG's are no different.
Greetings!
*Laughing* Everyone that knows about weapons, KNOWS that the .45 is the best.
I have trusted my life with my Glock .45 for years now. The Glock .45 is an absolute beast! *Laughing*
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Ain't it though?
Why do I choose a .45? Because they don't make a .46