Quote from: Manic Modron;1084135Fortunately subclasses are still a thing, so having illusionist Wizards and illusion focused Bards anf such are all still either confirmed or likely.

From the context of your comment about an illusionist as a specific class I bet you were making an early edition D&D joke, but still.

I like the idea of having specialized classes instead of a generic wizard or cleric that can do anything the plot requires. Partly because of Sanderson's laws of magic, and partly because specialized mages like vivomancers and illusionists are simply more evocative.

That's why I like the Spheres of Power and Spheres of Might systems so much.

Quote from: Razor 007;1084075Yeah, it doesn't really bother me; but it seems a little strange, to think about Divine Sorcerers?

They existed in D&D back in 3e (Divine Soul) and in current 5e (Celestial Bloodline), so they're hardly a new concept.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1084144They existed in D&D back in 3e (Divine Soul) and in current 5e (Celestial Bloodline), so they're hardly a new concept.

Spontaneous casters added a new wrinkle, so we ultimately got variants like the Heroes of Horror's archivist (divine wizard, casts from prayerbook), Pathfinder's oracle (spontaneous cleric list caster), and Kobold Press' shaman (spontaneous druid list caster).

All of these variants just tell me that we need a toolkit class design so that if you want interesting fluff then you can built them.

Paizo also labeled some spells as being 10th Level Spells.  Even at 20th Level, your character still doesn't have any 10th Level spell slots though....


Primal Spells sounds like D&D 4E Primal Powers, to me.....

Quote from: Razor 007;1084151Paizo also labeled some spells as being 10th Level Spells.  Even at 20th Level, your character still doesn't have any 10th Level spell slots though....

Tenth level spells are optional.  If you want them for your character it is a capstone feat you can take at 20th level.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1084108Arcane, divine, occult, primal... where's shadow/phantasmal for the illusionist class?

Illusion spells are under Arcane.

QuoteEh... I think Pathfinder2 is making a number of genuinely good changes to the often questionable 3e rules, although the wording could certainly be fixed (particularly anything dealing with tagging systems, which would be better off using brackets to save on strange wording). However, I suspect that it will most likely bomb. The only reason Pathfinder1 took off was everyone being upset over D&D4. Now that D&D5 has reverted the controversial changes, Pathfinder doesn't have a place anymore.

I still see a place for Pathfinder.

Quote from: Shasarak;1084165I still see a place for Pathfinder.

Yeah - it may be that people who want their D&D style gaming with more crunch & customization will for with PF 2. I like 5e pretty well, but even now I get a bit frustrated at how simplistic some things are. If I had the time I did back in college I'd definitely want more customization & crunch than 5e gives.

So - if PF 2 can maintain a decent player base, they'll be the refuge for the fantasy gamers who want more crunch.

I wonder if there will be very many private groups who continue to play this Playtest release, even after the official 2E comes out?

This hardcover Playtest release is a complete, playable game.  The books will still exist.

Quote from: Razor 007;1084183I wonder if there will be very many private groups who continue to play this Playtest release, even after the official 2E comes out?

This hardcover Playtest release is a complete, playable game.  The books will still exist.

I think it will largely depend on what the final changes actually are.  I'm sure that either way there will be people that will, but since one of their design goals seems to be a bit of modularity (a book of optional rules and ways to adjust the system is probably a 2019 release) it is more likely that there will be a bunch of odd hybrid games.

If they succeed at their plans, that is.

Quote from: Manic Modron;1084190I think it will largely depend on what the final changes actually are.  I'm sure that either way there will be people that will, but since one of their design goals seems to be a bit of modularity (a book of optional rules and ways to adjust the system is probably a 2019 release) it is more likely that there will be a bunch of odd hybrid games.

If they succeed at their plans, that is.

Well, I expect them to release a new official PF 2E Core Rulebook.  It will likely be 90%-95% identical to the Playtest Rulebook.  Not everyone will buy it all over again; is my prediction.  That creates a problem for Paizo, doesn't it?  They can't pay their salaries if people just download the free update, instead of purchasing more books.

Quote from: Razor 007;1084201Well, I expect them to release a new official PF 2E Core Rulebook.  It will likely be 90%-95% identical to the Playtest Rulebook.  Not everyone will buy it all over again; is my prediction.  That creates a problem for Paizo, doesn't it?  They can't pay their salaries if people just download the free update, instead of purchasing more books.

I don't think they are bothered by that, considering that they are releasing the entire set of rules for free online, the same thing they've been doing for years.

Quote from: Manic Modron;1084203I don't think they are bothered by that, considering that they are releasing the entire set of rules for free online, the same thing they've been doing for years.

There may be quite a few changes between PF 1E and 2E, but the Playtest should be very close to 2E.  I guarantee they need people to continue purchasing printed books.

Quote from: Manic Modron;1084203I don't think they are bothered by that, considering that they are releasing the entire set of rules for free online, the same thing they've been doing for years.

Actually, they stopped doing that a few years ago.  They would regularly update their version of the SRD, the PRD, with new open content from their books about six months to a year after that book came out. But then they stopped doing that. Then they even stopped hosting it, leaving it to a fan site to pick up its carcass.

Quote from: JeremyR;1084209Actually, they stopped doing that a few years ago.  They would regularly update their version of the SRD, the PRD, with new open content from their books about six months to a year after that book came out. But then they stopped doing that. Then they even stopped hosting it, leaving it to a fan site to pick up its carcass.

Okay, fine, they don't do the actual work for it.  They still let it happen

Quote from: Razor 007;1084205There may be quite a few changes between PF 1E and 2E, but the Playtest should be very close to 2E.  I guarantee they need people to continue purchasing printed books.

Of course they need people to continue to give them money somehow, but the playtest document cutting into their income doesn't seem to bother them at all.  It doesn't make much sense to be worried about a free document for a beta version of your game when you have already allowed a free document for the final version.

Quote from: JeremyR;1084209Actually, they stopped doing that a few years ago.  They would regularly update their version of the SRD, the PRD, with new open content from their books about six months to a year after that book came out. But then they stopped doing that. Then they even stopped hosting it, leaving it to a fan site to pick up its carcass.

Okay, yes.  They don't do the actual work of updating the online resources and fans have picked up the slack.  However, even though they aren't going to be doing the work in house, the Archive of Nethys page already has a deal with them to host and maintain the 2nd edition PRD.

Once supplements start being published people will probably have to wait a bit before free stuff gets onto the AoN, but the game itself is still going to be free at launch.