Quote from: woodsmoke;812611I think there's a legitimate argument to be made for the ease of access to potential distractions provided by electronic devices. Idly flipping through books or doodling are readily apparent to everyone at the table and easy for a DM to call out the offender. That's doubly true for chatter. Someone browsing Facebook or playing Candy Crush on his phone is generally sitting quietly and not distracting those around him, and thus more difficult to spot until it's the player's turn and he has no idea what's going on.

A couple of the people in my group are generally solid players as long as the DM takes away their smartphones when the game starts. If they're allowed to hang on to them, though, they're guaranteed to be an exercise in frustration and futility all damn night.

None of which is to say those who are determined to find something, anything to occupy their attention whenever it isn't their turn won't succeed in that endeavor, of course, but that's why I don't game with goldfish people.

Its not an 8th grade math test....

If the players aren't paying attention its not because they have phones or tablets or books it's because the GM isn't keeping their attention.  Rule of thumb you shoudl be asking each player what they are doing at least once every five minutes. If you spend more than 5 minutes on a solo "section" then you need to learn to break those sections up and come back to the others once every five minutes. There are some exceptions. A PC has been captured and locked in a cell with no hope of escape or anyone to get information out of etc but here is a PC is goign to be out of the loop for a long while I woudl get them to run the monsters for me ro take on an NPC.

Quote from: Ladybird;812570Indeed. The tablets aren't the problem; the problem is that the players aren't paying attention, the tablets are just what they're using to distract themselves. If they didn't have them, it would be something else; talking amongst themselves, doodling, flicking through books, etc.

I kind of disagree, based on watching what happened in our group when everyone started bringing in tablets all of a sudden, ostensibly to have rules ready to hand. There was a sudden increase in 'Have you seen that Youtube video about _______?' or 'Hey lemme show you this new app!'. They hadn't been nearly that unfocused before... even the GM was doing it. They're just too much of a temptation.
A couple of us pointed it out, the devices stopped appearing on the table and it all went back to normal.
Our current group has one guy who needs to cut the texting umbelical to his girlfriend, but other than that there's a general rule against having those things in hand unless it's to check a rules PDF (or the spell lists I've made).

Quote from: jibbajibba;812643Its not an 8th grade math test....

If the players aren't paying attention its not because they have phones or tablets or books it's because the GM isn't keeping their attention.  ...

Quote from: Ladybird;812570Indeed. The tablets aren't the problem; the problem is that the players aren't paying attention, ...

And in this case you both would be absolutely wrong.

One of the players taking notes on his laptop actually STOPPED the game from continuing so he could "catch up" typing notes.

The mage PC was caught in a force cage trap fighting an IMP for his life. I was switching round by round between him and the PCs outside the trap fighting the monsters. As soon as the action turned from him, he was on his tablet.

I'm not going to allow people to read books either. There will be no dice fidgeting. I do move between players and engage them constantly. The electronic devices are still in hand.

People these days are HOOKED to our online feeds. The internet, Facebook, Instagram...

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask a group of adults to unplug for 5 hours once a week. They only need a PHB, their character sheet, dice, writing utensil, and a notepad of paper. Maybe some graph paper if they are into that kind of mapping.

As a professional computer nerd, desktop publisher and avid InterTubes Junkie, this was not some arbitrary "evil DM" decision to poo poo on fun times. It was based on an OBSERVATION of undesirable behavior.

All of my friends were tapping away at their phones anytime they weren't immediately engaged but it didn't seem to negatively impact anything. Should I have been more upset by the phones?

'Not immediately engaged'?

How about enjoying the thrill of what your friends are doing, or considering information based on other actions?

Maybe it works for your group, but it sounds to me like people who have to be reminded what enemies are still up every time their turn comes up.

Online games are a bit more susceptible too because the internet is up and running as part of the game... and know one can see that you've muted the mic and are watching Youtube... or maybe left the room completely to go have a smoke/piss/nap.

It does all again come under 'don't play with jerks'... but having the internet up and running as part of the game adds to the likelihood of temptation.

There's also a fair point that if it takes 15 minutes for your turn to come up, and little of what happens impacts you, and it's not entertaining to listen to, that it's kind of unreasonable to expect people not to disengage.

It's a two-way street.  If the GM is doing their best to keep people engaged, then people should do their best to stay engaged.

Quote from: Will;812731'Not immediately engaged'?

How about enjoying the thrill of what your friends are doing, or considering information based on other actions?

Maybe it works for your group, but it sounds to me like people who have to be reminded what enemies are still up every time their turn comes up.

It is possible; I was so busy juggling the rules and figuring out how to handle each action that I wasn't able to pay attention to how much THEY were paying attention.

Part of it is that some of the players like to strategize for like two hours over one turn of combat, and only move when everybody has figured out the master plan. So the others would inevitably break out the phones. Maybe if I made it so that everybody could only speak for themselves and had to act within a few minutes, it would be different.

Also they would spend lots of time strategizing during sneaking around and planning ambushes and such. But isn't that part of the game?

I might be a little oversensitive due to past trauma (sniff).

Last group, we would have to explain to people constantly what was going on because they just WOULD NOT FUCKING PAY ATTENTION.

It wasn't devices, mind you, but they'd start chatting, whatever, and when we'd ask them to stop, they'd say 'but it's not my turn! Ok, I, uh, shoot an arrow at the minotaur.'
"... I just downed the minotaur."
'Oh, ok, the snake girl.'
"The yuan-ti was killed last turn."
'Well, whichever is closest to me.'


Ok, it might not be fair to blame the distraction, exactly, for the distracted.

But dammit, people.

Quote from: robiswrong;812737little of what happens impacts you

If what happens with another character doesn't impact you, then why are you playing to begin with?  If they fail, isn't that going to impact you?  If they die, won't you have less chance of living yourself?  I'll have to admit, I find this thought process basically antithetical to roleplaying games.

Sure, some people are so self-absorbed that they literally tune out the second the spotlight drifts from them.  Me, I run roleplaying games with adults, and don't have this problem.

We all need our beer and pretzels night, where we lay off the campaign, that's why god invented board, card, and story games.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;812730...that's why god invented board, card, and story games.

That would be Baby Jesus sir.

Quote from: CRKrueger;812743If what happens with another character doesn't impact you, then why are you playing to begin with?  If they fail, isn't that going to impact you?  If they die, won't you have less chance of living yourself?  I'll have to admit, I find this thought process basically antithetical to roleplaying games.

In some games, turns can take so long that paying attention through somebody deliberating over minutae, which will most likely not impact you (since it is unlikely they will die during their turn), can definitely try patience.

The solution to that may well be "run a game that doesn't have that kind of crap happening".  I won't disagree with that.  I'm just saying that I've been in some 4E games, for instance, where your turn would take 20 minutes to come around through all of the players, and any decisions you made would probably need to be rethought by the time it gets to you.

The turn length is definitely one of the reasons I don't play 4E any more, but I definitely have more understanding for people getting distracted in a situation where that occurs than I would in a game where turns last 20 seconds or so.

Quote from: trechriron;812717And in this case you both would be absolutely wrong.

One of the players taking notes on his laptop actually STOPPED the game from continuing so he could "catch up" typing notes.

The mage PC was caught in a force cage trap fighting an IMP for his life. I was switching round by round between him and the PCs outside the trap fighting the monsters. As soon as the action turned from him, he was on his tablet.

I'm not going to allow people to read books either. There will be no dice fidgeting. I do move between players and engage them constantly. The electronic devices are still in hand.

People these days are HOOKED to our online feeds. The internet, Facebook, Instagram...

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask a group of adults to unplug for 5 hours once a week. They only need a PHB, their character sheet, dice, writing utensil, and a notepad of paper. Maybe some graph paper if they are into that kind of mapping.

As a professional computer nerd, desktop publisher and avid InterTubes Junkie, this was not some arbitrary "evil DM" decision to poo poo on fun times. It was based on an OBSERVATION of undesirable behavior.

Okay so my games don't work like that.

If you have a group of PCs doign a thing and a mage fighting for his life. We switch between the two. the Player gets 20 seconds tops to decide what they do when I get to them.

DM: Okay you guys can hear shouting from the other side of the door.
PCs: Um ...
DM: What you doing? Time is critical here.
Pcs: We hack at it with our axes
DM; Okay mage next round. Imp has initiaitive still it snarls at you and leaps towards you displaying an array of suprisingly sharp teeth. 4 a miss . snaps at you but you manage to duck out of the way just in time.
Mage : hold on i need to check my powers:
Dm: No time. 10, 9, 8, 7 ...
Mage: Okay can I prep a shock spell.
DM: Sure
Mage: Hit him with that etc
DM: back to the guys outside I want stretgh rolls from all of you

You just keep it moving. All the time. My games are constantly like this unless the Players are discussing some tactical option. If I see a player not enaginging in that discussion I will lay in another thing.

Dm: Okay Frank. others are discussing the best way to sacle the city walls but you get a kind of eiree feeling, make a check
Frank: what against?
DM: I will let you know if you make it
Frank: 8
DM: What's your wisdom modifier Frank?
Frank: +2
etc

Did you say which D&D? There have been so many now.

How do you guys feel about giving the players time to discuss strategy during battle or before it?

Running the turns so fast is good for keeping up the pace, but don't you think it kind of cheats the players on making a satisfying plan or figuring out what's going on?