Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 23, 2022, 11:14:28 PM
Stop arguing and fuck already, you two.

LOL he's not my type, way too "smart" for me.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 23, 2022, 11:14:28 PM
Stop arguing and fuck already, you two.

We're LARPing a game of Thirsty Sword Lesbians in Western Womens Sports. I'm playing hard to get while we wait for GeekyBugles bloodwork to come back and confirm that he does not have venereal COVID.

Quote from: jeff37923 on March 24, 2022, 12:52:26 AM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 23, 2022, 11:14:28 PM
Stop arguing and fuck already, you two.

We're LARPing a game of Thirsty Sword Lesbians in Western Womens Sports. I'm playing hard to get while we wait for GeekyBugles bloodwork to come back and confirm that he does not have venereal COVID.

Won't lie that made me laugh out loud, I really needed it IRL stuff has been getting me down. So for that thanks. You're still wrong or lying about what I said tho.

Let's stop fucking dancing around the basic facts.

1) RPGs involve lots of reading of books.

2) Cultures which do not value reading and do not promote it among their children are cultures where RPGs (and other games involving the reading of many rules) will NOT be popular.

3) Not rocket science that RPGs were more popular with the honors class kids of all skin colors than among the short bus kids.

Want more blacks in RPGs? Great, go fix black culture's attitudes toward school, reading and intellectual achievements. But first google Chris Rock + books + kryptonite.

Have fun storming the ghetto castle...if you can get past the left's plantation gates.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 24, 2022, 01:30:07 AM

Quote from: jeff37923 on March 24, 2022, 12:52:26 AM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 23, 2022, 11:14:28 PM
Stop arguing and fuck already, you two.

We're LARPing a game of Thirsty Sword Lesbians in Western Womens Sports. I'm playing hard to get while we wait for GeekyBugles bloodwork to come back and confirm that he does not have venereal COVID.

Won't lie that made me laugh out loud, I really needed it IRL stuff has been getting me down. So for that thanks. You're still wrong or lying about what I said tho.

I'm glad that I could make you smile. IRL stuff is getting me stressed as well.

Now, I still think that you are wrong as well. What I find concerning is the inflation of the danger of the incident. The demonstrated single black complainant about the train diorama does not equal an imminent race riot and wasn't worthy of a news segment. Complaints about chainmail bikinis in Dragon does not mean that DnD book burnings would increase during the Satanic Panic. These may be warning signs of upcoming events, but that can only be best determined with hindsight after the dust has settled.

This also ties in with Shawn Driscoll's blathering about the Mongoose release of Shield Maidens. It looks so far to be aimed commercially at women gamers and I doubt is the opening up of another front in the gaming culture war (in short, it isn't Thirsty Sword Lesbians II - Electric Boogaloo). Now, while I don't find the premise of the game appealing (I hate mixing science fiction and fantasy), that doesn't mean the game is some form of evilbadwrongfun and should not exist. I'm not interested in the game, so I will not buy it or play it.

Where my concern comes in (along with the vast majority of ALL CAPS POSTS) is that by over-reacting to these and other incidents, we drive people who actually play out of the hobby. From what I can see, DnD 5E's embracing of wokeness is already driving players away from that game because of recently done crappy published books and modules. Now, I am starting to also be concerned about the attitude of various OSR champions who believe that just because a game is not DnD based, that it is only Old School and not Old School Revival because that kind of tribal exclusionary attitude tends to push allies away - particularly those allies who might really enjoy the games being played.

I'm in it for the long haul. I want the hobby to be alive and vibrant until the day I die. Suicide by imploding fanbase is not how I want to see it fail.

Quote from: Spinachcat on March 24, 2022, 04:39:38 AM
Let's stop fucking dancing around the basic facts.

1) RPGs involve lots of reading of books.

2) Cultures which do not value reading and do not promote it among their children are cultures where RPGs (and other games involving the reading of many rules) will NOT be popular.

3) Not rocket science that RPGs were more popular with the honors class kids of all skin colors than among the short bus kids.

Want more blacks in RPGs? Great, go fix black culture's attitudes toward school, reading and intellectual achievements. But first google Chris Rock + books + kryptonite.

Have fun storming the ghetto castle...if you can get past the left's plantation gates.

Not enjoying reading is a reason that my local seller blamed for decreased sales among younger crowds, along with competing against video games.

Quote from: jeff37923 on March 24, 2022, 07:35:13 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 24, 2022, 01:30:07 AM

Quote from: jeff37923 on March 24, 2022, 12:52:26 AM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 23, 2022, 11:14:28 PM
Stop arguing and fuck already, you two.

We're LARPing a game of Thirsty Sword Lesbians in Western Womens Sports. I'm playing hard to get while we wait for GeekyBugles bloodwork to come back and confirm that he does not have venereal COVID.

Won't lie that made me laugh out loud, I really needed it IRL stuff has been getting me down. So for that thanks. You're still wrong or lying about what I said tho.

I'm glad that I could make you smile. IRL stuff is getting me stressed as well.

Now, I still think that you are wrong as well. What I find concerning is the inflation of the danger of the incident. The demonstrated single black complainant about the train diorama does not equal an imminent race riot and wasn't worthy of a news segment. Complaints about chainmail bikinis in Dragon does not mean that DnD book burnings would increase during the Satanic Panic. These may be warning signs of upcoming events, but that can only be best determined with hindsight after the dust has settled.

This also ties in with Shawn Driscoll's blathering about the Mongoose release of Shield Maidens. It looks so far to be aimed commercially at women gamers and I doubt is the opening up of another front in the gaming culture war (in short, it isn't Thirsty Sword Lesbians II - Electric Boogaloo). Now, while I don't find the premise of the game appealing (I hate mixing science fiction and fantasy), that doesn't mean the game is some form of evilbadwrongfun and should not exist. I'm not interested in the game, so I will not buy it or play it.

Where my concern comes in (along with the vast majority of ALL CAPS POSTS) is that by over-reacting to these and other incidents, we drive people who actually play out of the hobby. From what I can see, DnD 5E's embracing of wokeness is already driving players away from that game because of recently done crappy published books and modules. Now, I am starting to also be concerned about the attitude of various OSR champions who believe that just because a game is not DnD based, that it is only Old School and not Old School Revival because that kind of tribal exclusionary attitude tends to push allies away - particularly those allies who might really enjoy the games being played.

I'm in it for the long haul. I want the hobby to be alive and vibrant until the day I die. Suicide by imploding fanbase is not how I want to see it fail.

No one said that the chainmail bikini article had anything to do with the Satanic Panic.

Me> Couple X got married DURING the summer of love.

You> Couple X getting married didn't start the summer of love nor did it prolong it!

Again I'm just saying it came out WHILE the satanic panic was going, because I don't remember the magazine's issue number but I do remember it was way back then.

Of course it had jack shit to do with the book burnings, I doubt very much most people really noticed it, paid any attention to it if they did or understood what it signified. And I do not think the people burning books were reading magazines about how to play the game.

With the benefit of hindsight we can recognize the article as the begining of the infestation of D&D by feminists. I doubt anyone raised any alarms back then, we were too focused on fighting the fundies.

We've seen example after example of how the infestation starts, it's never a full out assault, it's always a small ask, followed by another small ask, until they have enough power.

Pareidolia is a useful tool, when it's not tricking us. But remember we're descendants of the monkeys that ran/climbed the tree. So it will trick us sometimes.

I might be wrong and this is just an innocent accident.,. I don't think so but it's a possibility.

And that's all there is to it.

All this of course ignores the bigger picture.

Why all the focus on just one minority?

Because its this iterations current pet.

Prior ones was mostly Hispanics.

Before that it was mostly Native Americans.

Not sure what was before that.

Quote from: Omega on March 24, 2022, 04:15:16 PM
All this of course ignores the bigger picture.

Why all the focus on just one minority?

Because its this iterations current pet.

Prior ones was mostly Hispanics.

Before that it was mostly Native Americans.

Not sure what was before that.

Wahmen, even if they are the majority.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 24, 2022, 11:59:18 AM
I'm just saying it came out WHILE the satanic panic was going, because I don't remember the magazine's issue number but I do remember it was way back then.

Of course it had jack shit to do with the book burnings, I doubt very much most people really noticed it, paid any attention to it if they did or understood what it signified. And I do not think the people burning books were reading magazines about how to play the game.

With the benefit of hindsight we can recognize the article as the begining of the infestation of D&D by feminists. I doubt anyone raised any alarms back then, we were too focused on fighting the fundies.

We've seen example after example of how the infestation starts, it's never a full out assault, it's always a small ask, followed by another small ask, until they have enough power.

Hi, GeekyBugle. I think you might be talking about Dragon #39 (July 1980). It has two articles about women, "Women Want Equality" by Jean Wells and Kim Mohan, and "Points to Ponder" by Kyle Gray. They're on pages 16 and 17.

https://www.annarchive.com/files/Drmg039.pdf

However, there are signs of feminism before that. For example, AD&D used "he or she" pronouns throughout the books and included female characters throughout, plus officially changing from "Fighting Man" to "Fighter" and similar. This was different from the original books (which used only "he") and very different from Len Lakofka's suggestions in Dragon #3 (October 1976), pages 7-11.

https://www.annarchive.com/files/Drmg003.pdf

Quote from: jhkim on March 24, 2022, 05:58:21 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 24, 2022, 11:59:18 AM
I'm just saying it came out WHILE the satanic panic was going, because I don't remember the magazine's issue number but I do remember it was way back then.

Of course it had jack shit to do with the book burnings, I doubt very much most people really noticed it, paid any attention to it if they did or understood what it signified. And I do not think the people burning books were reading magazines about how to play the game.

With the benefit of hindsight we can recognize the article as the begining of the infestation of D&D by feminists. I doubt anyone raised any alarms back then, we were too focused on fighting the fundies.

We've seen example after example of how the infestation starts, it's never a full out assault, it's always a small ask, followed by another small ask, until they have enough power.

Hi, GeekyBugle. I think you might be talking about Dragon #39 (July 1980). It has two articles about women, "Women Want Equality" by Jean Wells and Kim Mohan, and "Points to Ponder" by Kyle Gray. They're on pages 16 and 17.

https://www.annarchive.com/files/Drmg039.pdf

However, there are signs of feminism before that. For example, AD&D used "he or she" pronouns throughout the books and included female characters throughout, plus officially changing from "Fighting Man" to "Fighter" and similar. This was different from the original books (which used only "he") and very different from Len Lakofka's suggestions in Dragon #3 (October 1976), pages 7-11.

https://www.annarchive.com/files/Drmg003.pdf

So the chainmail bikini clad female characters were feminist?

Including female characters is feminist? Robert E. Howard feminist confirmed.

Not saying you're wrong, I just find it funny that those are Schroedingers feminist characters.

You might be totally right.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 24, 2022, 06:30:24 PM

Quote from: jhkim on March 24, 2022, 05:58:21 PM
Hi, GeekyBugle. I think you might be talking about Dragon #39 (July 1980). It has two articles about women, "Women Want Equality" by Jean Wells and Kim Mohan, and "Points to Ponder" by Kyle Gray. They're on pages 16 and 17.

https://www.annarchive.com/files/Drmg039.pdf

However, there are signs of feminism before that. For example, AD&D used "he or she" pronouns throughout the books and included female characters throughout, plus officially changing from "Fighting Man" to "Fighter" and similar. This was different from the original books (which used only "he") and very different from Len Lakofka's suggestions in Dragon #3 (October 1976), pages 7-11.

https://www.annarchive.com/files/Drmg003.pdf

So the chainmail bikini clad female characters were feminist?

Including female characters is feminist? Robert E. Howard feminist confirmed.

Not saying you're wrong, I just find it funny that those are Schroedingers feminist characters.

You might be totally right.

I'm not saying that everything in AD&D was feminist, just as I'm sure you're not saying that everything in Dragon magazine was feminist. The question is when did feminist influence/infection start? I'd say there's feminist influence in AD&D compared to original D&D, given it's use of "he or she" and other pointed inclusion - when original D&D had no mention of women as characters. And just about anything is feminist compared to Len Lakofka's suggestions on how to add women into original D&D.

And yeah, I would say Robert E. Howard was a feminist for his time, given his characters like Red Sonya.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 24, 2022, 05:11:08 PM
Wahmen, even if they are the majority.

They are the stage every time before the moral guardians cycle around to minorities. Usually with the LGBT in between and the handicapped after. Sometimes with more emphasis on one than the other.

Every cycle of this cult goes just about always.
Think of the Children! The initial push for censoring anything they can combined with accusations of pedophillia.
Think of the Women! So oppressed and demeaned by those vile Men! Usually combined with pushing for more censorship.
Think of the Gays! This one has a tendency to go from promoting gay rights to trying to spread homosexuality like it was a disease to inflict on others. This iteration is particularly bad for that.
Think of the Minorities! Whatever this cycles pet is. The others tend to get less attention, or none, or are part of the "problem". Always trying to incite riots and violence in the name of "social justice"
Think of the Cripples! Usually an after thought, always pushing "ableism" and how being cured or wanting a normal life is BAD.

Quote from: jhkim on March 24, 2022, 07:43:06 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 24, 2022, 06:30:24 PM

Quote from: jhkim on March 24, 2022, 05:58:21 PM
Hi, GeekyBugle. I think you might be talking about Dragon #39 (July 1980). It has two articles about women, "Women Want Equality" by Jean Wells and Kim Mohan, and "Points to Ponder" by Kyle Gray. They're on pages 16 and 17.

https://www.annarchive.com/files/Drmg039.pdf

However, there are signs of feminism before that. For example, AD&D used "he or she" pronouns throughout the books and included female characters throughout, plus officially changing from "Fighting Man" to "Fighter" and similar. This was different from the original books (which used only "he") and very different from Len Lakofka's suggestions in Dragon #3 (October 1976), pages 7-11.

https://www.annarchive.com/files/Drmg003.pdf

So the chainmail bikini clad female characters were feminist?

Including female characters is feminist? Robert E. Howard feminist confirmed.

Not saying you're wrong, I just find it funny that those are Schroedingers feminist characters.

You might be totally right.

I'm not saying that everything in AD&D was feminist, just as I'm sure you're not saying that everything in Dragon magazine was feminist. The question is when did feminist influence/infection start? I'd say there's feminist influence in AD&D compared to original D&D, given it's use of "he or she" and other pointed inclusion - when original D&D had no mention of women as characters. And just about anything is feminist compared to Len Lakofka's suggestions on how to add women into original D&D.

And yeah, I would say Robert E. Howard was a feminist for his time, given his characters like Red Sonya.

Well you're an heretic to the progressive cult then. To them both REH & D&D were ALWAYS muhsoggyknistic.

Given feminism's somewhat chaotic beginnings it's not surprising things have gone somewhat off the rails. The origins of the term trace back to one Charles Fourier, who among other things confidently predicted that his utopia would result in 5 new moons, the seas turning to lemonade, and every woman having four husbands. As you can see, they've still got a ways to go.