Quote from: jeff37923 on March 19, 2022, 02:45:49 AM
The Chainmail Bikini argument didn't start the Satanic Panic and you have lost all sense of perspective if you think it did and that people should be punished for disagreeing with you.

Here is The Pulling Report, read up what did start the Satanic Panic and get a grip because ya'll sound like Mirror Universe Woke Scolds.

http://www.rpgstudies.net/stackpole/pulling_report.html

Are you fucking drunk?

NOBODY has said that.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 19, 2022, 04:16:30 AM

Quote from: jeff37923 on March 19, 2022, 02:45:49 AM
The Chainmail Bikini argument didn't start the Satanic Panic and you have lost all sense of perspective if you think it did and that people should be punished for disagreeing with you.

Here is The Pulling Report, read up what did start the Satanic Panic and get a grip because ya'll sound like Mirror Universe Woke Scolds.

http://www.rpgstudies.net/stackpole/pulling_report.html

Are you fucking drunk?

NOBODY has said that.

Really?

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 14, 2022, 04:36:56 AM

So you think the infestation starts with loads of locusts?

The locusts started working on D&D with just ONE Article on Dragon (or was it Dungeon?) about chainmail bikinis way back during the satanic panic.

You probably would scream it's just one article!

A single article, a single complaint and managed to change things. And that's how it ALWAYS starts.

Methinks thou dost protest too much.....

I don't really care about the whole Bikini thing in general. But I do care about the possible motivations for crying about it. That is to say if people are using it as an excuse to try and censor or moralize your game (or any game).

If you're doing it for 'realism' then that's legitimate. But if you're going all Tipper Gore then you can piss right off.

If you want to go down the whole 'but that's sexist' route then that's fine, as long as you also point the finger at women drooling over semi-naked male strippers at their hen nights and all the diet coke commercials.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 19, 2022, 09:24:20 AM
I don't really care about the whole Bikini thing in general. But I do care about the possible motivations for crying about it. That is to say if people are using it as an excuse to try and censor or moralize your game (or any game).

If you're doing it for 'realism' then that's legitimate. But if you're going all Tipper Gore then you can piss right off.

If you want to go down the whole 'but that's sexist' route then that's fine, as long as you also point the finger at women drooling over semi-naked male strippers at their hen nights and all the diet coke commercials.

As many people have pointed out many times, you don't even need to leave gaming to find examples of scantily clad male warriors. Likely, you don't even need to turn the page of the RPG book where you saw the chainmail bikini.

The point being, anyone arguing that chainmail bikinis are "sexist" is, ipso facto, already in Tipper Goreland.

Quote from: Zalman on March 19, 2022, 09:35:08 AMAs many people have pointed out many times, you don't even need to leave gaming to find examples of scantily clad male warriors.

Celtic warriors used to run naked into battle. That fact alone pretty much blows most the "realism" argument out of the water, unless you want to insist that only armor that provides proper covering provides protection in a game that's actually supposed to be realistic. If that last part is not the case, who cares?

I think he's right that a good part of it is cultural.

Lol I saw this many years ago. I got some amusement out of it, but there was also so much cringe. Whatever the race and for whatever reason, it just goes to show that RPGs isn't for everyone.

Quote from: jeff37923 on March 19, 2022, 02:45:49 AM
The Chainmail Bikini argument didn't start the Satanic Panic and you have lost all sense of perspective if you think it did and that people should be punished for disagreeing with you.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 14, 2022, 04:36:56 AM
The locusts started working on D&D with just ONE Article on Dragon (or was it Dungeon?) about chainmail bikinis way back during the satanic panic.

Seems GeekyBugle never said it started the Satanic Panic, he said it happened during which is a different thing.

The chainmail bikini is an odd direction for this to have gone in, but I'll bite.

I don't think that true "chainmail bikinis" are realistic, but if you have women in combat in a high fantasy setting, there are legitimate reasons to think it would be lighter and more form-fitting. Women are a few inches shorter than men and have notably less physical strength, especially in the upper torso (on average). This absolutely does have implications for armor loadouts; they will want to shed weight wherever possible, and in 1-on-1 encounters, certain parts of the body are not actually targets.

The primary target zones for someone who is taller will be the head, shoulders, upper torso, and for the forward foot. The entire range from bottom of the chest to the knees is basically out of range, and only needs armor from stray hits. And this ignores the fact that corsets are dang close to being armor already, and most of the material said about cloaks can also be said of skirts.

So, while I haven't seen it done in any fantasy literature, I can totally imagine a woman in combat wearing a helmet, pauldrons, a corset. These are all form-fitting clothes which could be made very sexy and in history absolutely would have been. I can also see a woman who is caught more unawares pulling off her own skirt and using it as a shield or wrapping her head and shoulders with it for some padding protection. A heavy skirt on a quick release makes a lot of sense for cloak techniques, and when you take it off....well, let's just say that her ankles will definitely be visible.

So no, chainmail bikini isn't realistic. But it also isn't actually that far off the mark.

Quote from: Fheredin on March 20, 2022, 11:40:15 PM
The chainmail bikini is an odd direction for this to have gone in, but I'll bite.

I don't think that true "chainmail bikinis" are realistic, but if you have women in combat in a high fantasy setting, there are legitimate reasons to think it would be lighter and more form-fitting. Women are a few inches shorter than men and have notably less physical strength, especially in the upper torso (on average). This absolutely does have implications for armor loadouts; they will want to shed weight wherever possible, and in 1-on-1 encounters, certain parts of the body are not actually targets.

The primary target zones for someone who is taller will be the head, shoulders, upper torso, and for the forward foot. The entire range from bottom of the chest to the knees is basically out of range, and only needs armor from stray hits. And this ignores the fact that corsets are dang close to being armor already, and most of the material said about cloaks can also be said of skirts.

So, while I haven't seen it done in any fantasy literature, I can totally imagine a woman in combat wearing a helmet, pauldrons, a corset. These are all form-fitting clothes which could be made very sexy and in history absolutely would have been. I can also see a woman who is caught more unawares pulling off her own skirt and using it as a shield or wrapping her head and shoulders with it for some padding protection. A heavy skirt on a quick release makes a lot of sense for cloak techniques, and when you take it off....well, let's just say that her ankles will definitely be visible.

So no, chainmail bikini isn't realistic. But it also isn't actually that far off the mark.

Between sexy helmets & pauldrons and the idea of a woman ripping her skirt off to wrap it around her head when attacked, I can't take what you're saying seriously...are you trying to be funny?

   I laugh to myself with people acting as if Chainmail bikinis were some issue back in 1st edition D&D when you could open up the monster manual to the succubus entry, and likely see more female skin than you ever had (at least for me as a 3rd grader cracking that open) top and bottom.   I can not remember a chainmail bikini in much of the art back then, I remember a female with what looked to be a tight T shirt form of chainmail, but do not remember any bikinis and always thought of that as a Red Sonja thing.

WTF is going on in this thread?

Quote from: tenbones on March 21, 2022, 11:19:49 AM
WTF is going on in this thread?

Fook knows!

Quote from: tenbones on March 21, 2022, 11:19:49 AM
WTF is going on in this thread?

  The memory of seeing the Succubus's devil's triangle for the first time triggered by all this chainmail bikini talk caused me to jump in on the derail.  I did not really mesh with the video, or most of the commentary, since the first game I played in at school when I was a kid, was populated with 50 percent black guys(over 50, 4 black 3 white).  Granted we had zero girls of any flavor.

I know they exist, but I don't know a single guy or girl that was ever truly offended by the chainmail bikini.

I don't know of any black males or females that were offended by them either. The 80's puritanical sensibilities of yesteryear have been demolished by the liberal lunacy of today...

So I'm not sure why it's germane. The reality of black folks not playing TTRPG's is pretty straightforward, and it's not racism, or anything else, it's exposure.

Just like I could ask how many TTRPG players are deeply into specific sports, or tea-ceremony or whatever. It's lack of cultural touchpoints and in-group exposure that cause it. It's definitely changing... but you know... not everyone has to be INTO everything, or even like it.