Quote from: Cat the Bounty Smuggler on March 13, 2022, 11:40:56 PM
I agree with Fheredin: D&D and other major brands are expensive, not roleplaying in general. At least, not anymore. Basic Fantasy's not only free to download, you can get physical copies at cost, and there are a bunch of adventures for it, also for free or at cost.

BUT...

Who knows those games? Mostly those who are already part of the hobby.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 14, 2022, 12:07:11 AM

Quote from: Cat the Bounty Smuggler on March 13, 2022, 11:40:56 PM
I agree with Fheredin: D&D and other major brands are expensive, not roleplaying in general. At least, not anymore. Basic Fantasy's not only free to download, you can get physical copies at cost, and there are a bunch of adventures for it, also for free or at cost.

BUT...

Who knows those games? Mostly those who are already part of the hobby.

Basic D&D PDF is less than 4 bucks on drivethrurpg.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/110274/DD-Basic-Set-Rulebook-B-X-ed-Basic?src=hottest_filtered

Going Brick and Mortar, we have the essentials kit for 13 bucks.

https://www.amazon.com/Dungeons-Dragons-Essentials-Kit-Boxed/dp/0786966831/ref=asc_df_0786966831/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=366418875758&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17548282611176089342&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9033278&hvtargid=pla-813156597836&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=78795693080&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=366418875758&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17548282611176089342&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9033278&hvtargid=pla-813156597836

More importantly, why aren't we talking about diversity in the model train community? [/s] I think most "lack of X" in gaming can be tracked to how it was viewed as a weird, nerdy thing that losers did in their basement because they couldn't get chicks.
That has changed drastically over the years, to where Vin Diesel mentions playing D&D, or Henry Cavil mentions being a 40k fan, and it's seen as quirky and not pathetic.

*Edit*

Ok, I scrolled down on the amazon essentials link and, well...

Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 14, 2022, 01:23:31 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 14, 2022, 12:07:11 AM

Quote from: Cat the Bounty Smuggler on March 13, 2022, 11:40:56 PM
I agree with Fheredin: D&D and other major brands are expensive, not roleplaying in general. At least, not anymore. Basic Fantasy's not only free to download, you can get physical copies at cost, and there are a bunch of adventures for it, also for free or at cost.

BUT...

Who knows those games? Mostly those who are already part of the hobby.

Basic D&D PDF is less than 4 bucks on drivethrurpg.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/110274/DD-Basic-Set-Rulebook-B-X-ed-Basic?src=hottest_filtered

Going Brick and Mortar, we have the essentials kit for 13 bucks.

https://www.amazon.com/Dungeons-Dragons-Essentials-Kit-Boxed/dp/0786966831/ref=asc_df_0786966831/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=366418875758&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17548282611176089342&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9033278&hvtargid=pla-813156597836&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=78795693080&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=366418875758&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17548282611176089342&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9033278&hvtargid=pla-813156597836

More importantly, why aren't we talking about diversity in the model train community? [/s] I think most "lack of X" in gaming can be tracked to how it was viewed as a weird, nerdy thing that losers did in their basement because they couldn't get chicks.
That has changed drastically over the years, to where Vin Diesel mentions playing D&D, or Henry Cavil mentions being a 40k fan, and it's seen as quirky and not pathetic.

*Edit*

Ok, I scrolled down on the amazon essentials link and, well...

A "Basic" fully compatible version of D&D 5E has been available as a free PDF from WotC since 5E was released.

https://dnd.wizards.com/what-is-dnd/basic-rules

Culture.

Also who cares.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 14, 2022, 01:23:31 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 14, 2022, 12:07:11 AM

Quote from: Cat the Bounty Smuggler on March 13, 2022, 11:40:56 PM
I agree with Fheredin: D&D and other major brands are expensive, not roleplaying in general. At least, not anymore. Basic Fantasy's not only free to download, you can get physical copies at cost, and there are a bunch of adventures for it, also for free or at cost.

BUT...

Who knows those games? Mostly those who are already part of the hobby.

Basic D&D PDF is less than 4 bucks on drivethrurpg.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/110274/DD-Basic-Set-Rulebook-B-X-ed-Basic?src=hottest_filtered

Going Brick and Mortar, we have the essentials kit for 13 bucks.

https://www.amazon.com/Dungeons-Dragons-Essentials-Kit-Boxed/dp/0786966831/ref=asc_df_0786966831/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=366418875758&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17548282611176089342&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9033278&hvtargid=pla-813156597836&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=78795693080&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=366418875758&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17548282611176089342&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9033278&hvtargid=pla-813156597836

More importantly, why aren't we talking about diversity in the model train community? [/s] I think most "lack of X" in gaming can be tracked to how it was viewed as a weird, nerdy thing that losers did in their basement because they couldn't get chicks.
That has changed drastically over the years, to where Vin Diesel mentions playing D&D, or Henry Cavil mentions being a 40k fan, and it's seen as quirky and not pathetic.

*Edit*

Ok, I scrolled down on the amazon essentials link and, well...

You jest but the loccust has been working on Train modellers for a while.

https://www.cbs58.com/news/exclusive-racist-train-model-sparks-change-in-policy-at-trainfest

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 14, 2022, 02:51:17 AM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 14, 2022, 01:23:31 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 14, 2022, 12:07:11 AM

Quote from: Cat the Bounty Smuggler on March 13, 2022, 11:40:56 PM
I agree with Fheredin: D&D and other major brands are expensive, not roleplaying in general. At least, not anymore. Basic Fantasy's not only free to download, you can get physical copies at cost, and there are a bunch of adventures for it, also for free or at cost.

BUT...

Who knows those games? Mostly those who are already part of the hobby.

Basic D&D PDF is less than 4 bucks on drivethrurpg.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/110274/DD-Basic-Set-Rulebook-B-X-ed-Basic?src=hottest_filtered

Going Brick and Mortar, we have the essentials kit for 13 bucks.

https://www.amazon.com/Dungeons-Dragons-Essentials-Kit-Boxed/dp/0786966831/ref=asc_df_0786966831/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=366418875758&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17548282611176089342&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9033278&hvtargid=pla-813156597836&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=78795693080&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=366418875758&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17548282611176089342&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9033278&hvtargid=pla-813156597836

More importantly, why aren't we talking about diversity in the model train community? [/s] I think most "lack of X" in gaming can be tracked to how it was viewed as a weird, nerdy thing that losers did in their basement because they couldn't get chicks.
That has changed drastically over the years, to where Vin Diesel mentions playing D&D, or Henry Cavil mentions being a 40k fan, and it's seen as quirky and not pathetic.

*Edit*

Ok, I scrolled down on the amazon essentials link and, well...

You jest but the loccust has been working on Train modellers for a while.

https://www.cbs58.com/news/exclusive-racist-train-model-sparks-change-in-policy-at-trainfest

You're kidding, right? A man-bites-dog report from a local TV station from five years ago? Please tell me you're kidding.

After watching your linked video, I think that both you and that TV station are jumping at shadows now. From the video, it looks like only a single black female complained about the display - just one! It must have been a slow news day at the newsroom to make this even a story! The con committee for TrainFest or whatever sounds like a bunch of spineless nitwits to let this scare them.

Again, this was five years ago!

Goddamn, I don't like woke bullshit any more than anybody else, but when we jump at shadows like this we become our own enemy because people won't take us seriously.

Quote from: jeff37923 on March 14, 2022, 03:54:43 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 14, 2022, 02:51:17 AM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 14, 2022, 01:23:31 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 14, 2022, 12:07:11 AM

Quote from: Cat the Bounty Smuggler on March 13, 2022, 11:40:56 PM
I agree with Fheredin: D&D and other major brands are expensive, not roleplaying in general. At least, not anymore. Basic Fantasy's not only free to download, you can get physical copies at cost, and there are a bunch of adventures for it, also for free or at cost.

BUT...

Who knows those games? Mostly those who are already part of the hobby.

Basic D&D PDF is less than 4 bucks on drivethrurpg.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/110274/DD-Basic-Set-Rulebook-B-X-ed-Basic?src=hottest_filtered

Going Brick and Mortar, we have the essentials kit for 13 bucks.

https://www.amazon.com/Dungeons-Dragons-Essentials-Kit-Boxed/dp/0786966831/ref=asc_df_0786966831/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=366418875758&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17548282611176089342&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9033278&hvtargid=pla-813156597836&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=78795693080&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=366418875758&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17548282611176089342&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9033278&hvtargid=pla-813156597836

More importantly, why aren't we talking about diversity in the model train community? [/s] I think most "lack of X" in gaming can be tracked to how it was viewed as a weird, nerdy thing that losers did in their basement because they couldn't get chicks.
That has changed drastically over the years, to where Vin Diesel mentions playing D&D, or Henry Cavil mentions being a 40k fan, and it's seen as quirky and not pathetic.

*Edit*

Ok, I scrolled down on the amazon essentials link and, well...

You jest but the loccust has been working on Train modellers for a while.

https://www.cbs58.com/news/exclusive-racist-train-model-sparks-change-in-policy-at-trainfest

You're kidding, right? A man-bites-dog report from a local TV station from five years ago? Please tell me you're kidding.

After watching your linked video, I think that both you and that TV station are jumping at shadows now. From the video, it looks like only a single black female complained about the display - just one! It must have been a slow news day at the newsroom to make this even a story! The con committee for TrainFest or whatever sounds like a bunch of spineless nitwits to let this scare them.

Again, this was five years ago!

Goddamn, I don't like woke bullshit any more than anybody else, but when we jump at shadows like this we become our own enemy because people won't take us seriously.

So you think the infestation starts with loads of locusts?

The locusts started working on D&D with just ONE Article on Dragon (or was it Dungeon?) about chainmail bikinis way back during the satanic panic.

You probably would scream it's just one article!

A single article, a single complaint and managed to change things. And that's how it ALWAYS starts.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 14, 2022, 04:36:56 AM

Quote from: jeff37923 on March 14, 2022, 03:54:43 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 14, 2022, 02:51:17 AM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 14, 2022, 01:23:31 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 14, 2022, 12:07:11 AM

Quote from: Cat the Bounty Smuggler on March 13, 2022, 11:40:56 PM
I agree with Fheredin: D&D and other major brands are expensive, not roleplaying in general. At least, not anymore. Basic Fantasy's not only free to download, you can get physical copies at cost, and there are a bunch of adventures for it, also for free or at cost.

BUT...

Who knows those games? Mostly those who are already part of the hobby.

Basic D&D PDF is less than 4 bucks on drivethrurpg.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/110274/DD-Basic-Set-Rulebook-B-X-ed-Basic?src=hottest_filtered

Going Brick and Mortar, we have the essentials kit for 13 bucks.

https://www.amazon.com/Dungeons-Dragons-Essentials-Kit-Boxed/dp/0786966831/ref=asc_df_0786966831/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=366418875758&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17548282611176089342&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9033278&hvtargid=pla-813156597836&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=78795693080&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=366418875758&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17548282611176089342&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9033278&hvtargid=pla-813156597836

More importantly, why aren't we talking about diversity in the model train community? [/s] I think most "lack of X" in gaming can be tracked to how it was viewed as a weird, nerdy thing that losers did in their basement because they couldn't get chicks.
That has changed drastically over the years, to where Vin Diesel mentions playing D&D, or Henry Cavil mentions being a 40k fan, and it's seen as quirky and not pathetic.

*Edit*

Ok, I scrolled down on the amazon essentials link and, well...

You jest but the loccust has been working on Train modellers for a while.

https://www.cbs58.com/news/exclusive-racist-train-model-sparks-change-in-policy-at-trainfest

You're kidding, right? A man-bites-dog report from a local TV station from five years ago? Please tell me you're kidding.

After watching your linked video, I think that both you and that TV station are jumping at shadows now. From the video, it looks like only a single black female complained about the display - just one! It must have been a slow news day at the newsroom to make this even a story! The con committee for TrainFest or whatever sounds like a bunch of spineless nitwits to let this scare them.

Again, this was five years ago!

Goddamn, I don't like woke bullshit any more than anybody else, but when we jump at shadows like this we become our own enemy because people won't take us seriously.

So you think the infestation starts with loads of locusts?

The locusts started working on D&D with just ONE Article on Dragon (or was it Dungeon?) about chainmail bikinis way back during the satanic panic.

You probably would scream it's just one article!

A single article, a single complaint and managed to change things. And that's how it ALWAYS starts.

You've lost your sense of perspective.

Quote from: hedgehobbit on March 13, 2022, 07:06:09 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on March 13, 2022, 09:46:56 AM
Part of the problem is the idea that we somehow HAVE to get black people interested in RPGs, or that lack of interest in RPGs in the black American community is somehow reflective of RPGs themselves, as opposed to black American culture or personal preferences.

The video is made by a black guy who wants more black people to participate in his hobby. I can find no fault in that.

I wasn't so much replying to the video per, but going off something jhkim said in the previous post and the apparent implication we have to make this happen somehow. Like I tried to illustrate in the rest of my post, sometimes people have different interests, even if they've played RPGs before.

When the media calls the members of a hobby racist because not enough black folks are involved, is that more or less likely to encourage black folks to check it out and give it a try? My gut says less likely.

The same for settings that are deemed racist because some virtue signaling fool tying to make a name for himself says they aren't historically accurate (when they were they intended to be) and the media doesn't care enough to get a second opinion because its too juicy to resist.

From a cultural perspective, I would actually be more interested in knowing why so few Asians play TTRPGs. By Asians I mean people in Asia, not Asian-Americans or whatnot. This is not just the case in East Asia, but even more so in India and the Middle East, even though there's already a large middle class in those regions. RPG video games are played the world over, but TTRPGs are still very much concentrated in North America and Western Europe. Here in Germany, all of the TTRPG players I have ever come across are white (even at conventions). Moreover, none of them are Muslim, despite the fact that Germany has a large Muslim minority (mostly Turks and Arabs).

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 12, 2022, 03:46:47 AM
Confirmation bias and all but listen to the video and discuss.

Thanks for the video. It was interesting. I generally don't think about things along racial lines, so it made me think. In the last 30 years I have played with one black person. Our group is not very evangelical since we have almost maxed out in players. She was a co-worker of the GM who expressed an interest when he was describing TTRPGs. All the rest of us were guys, mostly white, but we also had some hispanics and asians who would come and go as they wanted (but in fairness they didn't seem all that interested). She was welcomed into the group, but showed no interest in what was going on. She was on her phone all the time playing some game, shopping, sending and receiving text messages, and when it came to her turn she never knew what was going on. Each round we had to give her a review of what had just happened. It was incredibly irritating. I don't think we would have kept her as long as we did if she hadn't been black, and we were not all bending over backwards to not be 'racist'. To make matters worse when she wasn't ignoring the game on her phone, she was saying some incredibly insulting racial and political comments -- we try to avoid politics when we are gaming. We are there for the game. I really don't know why she was there -- usually people who don't like RPGs or just don't like us for one reason or another move on after a few sessions. I started thinking she was only there to insult and irritate us. Eventually all the other players started complaining and she was kicked out of the group.

Quote from: Ruprecht on March 14, 2022, 08:54:37 AM
When the media calls the members of a hobby racist because not enough black folks are involved, is that more or less likely to encourage black folks to check it out and give it a try? My gut says less likely.

The same for settings that are deemed racist because some virtue signaling fool tying to make a name for himself says they aren't historically accurate (when they were they intended to be) and the media doesn't care enough to get a second opinion because its too juicy to resist.

Agreed, the same when they call hobby/setting/game X sexist and invent horror stories or play out a single outlier as if it was representative of the whole.

That's not going to encourage women to come check it out.

Quote from: Rhymer88 on March 14, 2022, 11:08:46 AM
From a cultural perspective, I would actually be more interested in knowing why so few Asians play TTRPGs. By Asians I mean people in Asia, not Asian-Americans or whatnot. This is not just the case in East Asia, but even more so in India and the Middle East, even though there's already a large middle class in those regions. RPG video games are played the world over, but TTRPGs are still very much concentrated in North America and Western Europe. Here in Germany, all of the TTRPG players I have ever come across are white (even at conventions). Moreover, none of them are Muslim, despite the fact that Germany has a large Muslim minority (mostly Turks and Arabs).

I wouldn't expect Muslims to play TTRPGs due to their religion.

But IF true, that's a very interesting fact. It's not like India (for instance) lacks nerds, so why is that so?

Quote from: squirewaldo on March 14, 2022, 11:54:23 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 12, 2022, 03:46:47 AM
Confirmation bias and all but listen to the video and discuss.

Thanks for the video. It was interesting. I generally don't think about things along racial lines, so it made me think. In the last 30 years I have played with one black person. Our group is not very evangelical since we have almost maxed out in players. She was a co-worker of the GM who expressed an interest when he was describing TTRPGs. All the rest of us were guys, mostly white, but we also had some hispanics and asians who would come and go as they wanted (but in fairness they didn't seem all that interested). She was welcomed into the group, but showed no interest in what was going on. She was on her phone all the time playing some game, shopping, sending and receiving text messages, and when it came to her turn she never knew what was going on. Each round we had to give her a review of what had just happened. It was incredibly irritating. I don't think we would have kept her as long as we did if she hadn't been black, and we were not all bending over backwards to not be 'racist'. To make matters worse when she wasn't ignoring the game on her phone, she was saying some incredibly insulting racial and political comments -- we try to avoid politics when we are gaming. We are there for the game. I really don't know why she was there -- usually people who don't like RPGs or just don't like us for one reason or another move on after a few sessions. I started thinking she was only there to insult and irritate us. Eventually all the other players started complaining and she was kicked out of the group.

IMHO it WAS racist off the GM not to tell her from minute one that she was being rude, I imagine that would be the case with any one not a woman and black.

In my table all are treated the same IDGAF what your sex/color/sexuality/religion/etc is. YOU will respect the table, the GM and the other players or you'll get a talking to, if the attitude persist then you're not a good fit and will be kicked out.