personally i'm not a fan of OSR games. i played it once but i didn't like it. maybe it's because it's not that powerful, maybe it's because you have to look for things instead of roll perception or maybe is because you roll you stats.

but how would you recommend players of more modern games and with more cruch to try OSR games. what OSR game do you recommend?

Old school games require a different approach to play. The game aspect of rpg play is more at the center of things. The lack of a lot of crunchy mechanics means that the players have to be more directly involved in things instead of just sleepwalking through and making a die roll when prompted. Character generation with random elements is part of this. Part of the excitement of play is seeing what can be accomplished with what is generated. If this basic approach isn't fun for you then I don't know of a system that will provide what you want.

Quote from: Exploderwizard on January 12, 2025, 09:03:14 AMOld school games require a different approach to play. The game aspect of rpg play is more at the center of things. The lack of a lot of crunchy mechanics means that the players have to be more directly involved in things instead of just sleepwalking through and making a die roll when prompted. Character generation with random elements is part of this. Part of the excitement of play is seeing what can be accomplished with what is generated. If this basic approach isn't fun for you then I don't know of a system that will provide what you want.

I was right, OSR game are not for me. I have another question. is Mausritter a OSR game?

First thing I would say is just try again with a different DM/GM. From personal experience I know that certain GMs make OSR play an absolutely miserable experience. In general, any kind of rules-lite gaming is more dependent on a good GM to make it work.

That said, it's OK to not like OSR games. They are genuinely not for everyone. If you're someone who enjoys a lot of crunch, particularly character building, skill systems or detailed combat simulation, then the OSR is probably not going to provide what you want.

The good news is there are many, many alternatives. What is it you look for in a game, and corollary: why do you want to leave 5e/Pathfinder in the first place?

Quote from: antonioGUAK on January 12, 2025, 04:40:46 AMpersonally i'm not a fan of OSR games. i played it once but i didn't like it. maybe it's because it's not that powerful, maybe it's because you have to look for things instead of roll perception or maybe is because you roll you stats.

but how would you recommend players of more modern games and with more cruch to try OSR games. what OSR game do you recommend?

I'm not experienced in the OSR so won't recommend anything there but what I will say is that I wouldn't personally lump 5e 2014 and PF2e players necessarily together as the two games are vastly different in complexity/crunch.   I assume that by asking for an OSR recommendation that you're looking for less rules bloat so a group switching from PF2e to 5e 2014 (no idea about 2024 5e as I haven't played it) would likely see a noticeable decrease in crunch/calculation.  I suppose it might be good to ask the players if they just want less rules overall or to go actually and fully rules light.

Quote from: ForgottenF on January 12, 2025, 10:06:12 AMFirst thing I would say is just try again with a different DM/GM. From personal experience I know that certain GMs make OSR play an absolutely miserable experience. In general, any kind of rules-lite gaming is more dependent on a good GM to make it work.

That said, it's OK to not like OSR games. They are genuinely not for everyone. If you're someone who enjoys a lot of crunch, particularly character building, skill systems or detailed combat simulation, then the OSR is probably not going to provide what you want.

The good news is there are many, many alternatives. What is it you look for in a game, and corollary: why do you want to leave 5e/Pathfinder in the first place?

I honesly dont like 5e. I think there are better system. I pprefer other games like Pathfinder 2e.

the reason why I make a question is to know how you can recoment other play to play OSR games. so yeah I dont want to leave 5e or pathfinder. maybe the former but not the latter. A system that I like a lot is Ishanekon: World Shapers and another system that I discover  recently is MythCraft.

but I allaws pefrer cruching games that OSR games. is my opinion.

Quote from: antonioGUAK on January 12, 2025, 10:23:12 AM

Quote from: ForgottenF on January 12, 2025, 10:06:12 AMFirst thing I would say is just try again with a different DM/GM. From personal experience I know that certain GMs make OSR play an absolutely miserable experience. In general, any kind of rules-lite gaming is more dependent on a good GM to make it work.

That said, it's OK to not like OSR games. They are genuinely not for everyone. If you're someone who enjoys a lot of crunch, particularly character building, skill systems or detailed combat simulation, then the OSR is probably not going to provide what you want.

The good news is there are many, many alternatives. What is it you look for in a game, and corollary: why do you want to leave 5e/Pathfinder in the first place?

I honesly dont like 5e. I think there are better system. I pprefer other games like Pathfinder 2e.

the reason why I make a question is to know how you can recoment other play to play OSR games. so yeah I dont want to leave 5e or pathfinder. maybe the former but not the latter. A system that I like a lot is Ishanekon: World Shapers and another system that I discover  recently is MythCraft.

but I allaws pefrer cruching games that OSR games. is my opinion.

Yeah based on that, I'd say you're probably not going to get on well with OSR games. Maybe Radiance? That's a high-crunch game that's still pretty well designed. PDF is free, too.

Sounds like you would be happy with one of the AD&D or AD&D-2 copycat games.  They tend to be complex, which is your stated style of play (crunchy).

Castles and Crusades is one....and best of all it is free!  Well, 7th edition is, but 8th edition is $20 (and I have no clue why there is an 8th edition).  It is an AD&D styled game.

Castles and Crusades 7th Edition player handbook

Hyperboria is another one.  Not free.  It is styled along the lines of AD&D-2.

Quote from: ForgottenF on January 12, 2025, 11:14:28 AMYeah based on that, I'd say you're probably not going to get on well with OSR games. Maybe Radiance? That's a high-crunch game that's still pretty well designed. PDF is free, too.

I'm always up for new games, especially free ones.

Radiance does indeed look a bit on the crunchy side.  Not too bad, though.

Two changes I saw.

First.  Magic runs on dice rolls and uses points called Vitality to power them. 

Second. Armor is Damage Reduction.  Your armor absorbs the first couple of damage points, then you take the remainder.  Otherwise it's pretty standard D&D with actions, move, free actions, and such.

Tons of races and classes.  25 races and 30 classes or so.  Martial classes get lots of abilities just like mages and clerics do.

It's a good game as far as I can tell.

I'm neither a fan of 5e nor OSR; I tried DCC and Castles and Crusades and neither did it for me (though I'm a big fan of Steve Chenault and the other Troll Lords). I'm much bigger into alternative concepts like Dragonbane, Savage Worlds, and even Genesys... which is why I'm slightly puzzled as to how I've become so smitten with Shadowdark. I suppose it's familiar enough with the d20 core mechanic, character creation is an absolute breeze, and the roll charts for classes guarantee your characters will never follow the same path through development. The Hit Points are low making easy loss of one feel impactful, and it uses a cast-until-you-fail magic system that also makes each spellcasting attempt feel meaningful and exciting.

The Shadowdark Quickstart is completely free and contains everything you need to play a trimmed-down version of the full game. The Arcane Library has even addressed a major complaint of the game - too few classes - by releasing three more, also free-of-charge. It "just" won several major awards and its third-party community is blossoming. I recommend you take it for a spin.

Shadowdark is a bit of popular game right now.

Our consensus on this forum is that Shadowdark is good, but not mind blowing or anything.  Just good.

I like it, I own the PDF, but I'm unlikely to ever play it because I have quirky taste in games.  All my favorites right now use just a couple D6's, or even just one.

Here is that QuickStart for anyone curious. 

Shadowdark QuickStart

Quote from: antonioGUAK on January 12, 2025, 04:40:46 AMpersonally i'm not a fan of OSR games. i played it once but i didn't like it. maybe it's because it's not that powerful, maybe it's because you have to look for things instead of roll perception or maybe is because you roll you stats.

but how would you recommend players of more modern games and with more cruch to try OSR games. what OSR game do you recommend?

There are some options:

1. Shadows of Esteren: a grim, gothic setting, with a relatively rules-lite system, but with enough PC customization to interest the modern gamer. Somewhat low-fantasy, and human-focused (no, you can't be half-dragon).

https://portal.esteren.org/en

2. Forbidden Lands from Free League. I have not played this, but I love their other games. Excellent mechanics, and a cool setting.

3. Masterbook: if you want more depth in character creation, lots of interactive attributes and skills, and a very flexible system

https://www.pigames.net/store/default.php?cPath=107

4. The Dark Eye

https://ulisses-us.com/games/tde/

Quote from: MerrillWeathermay on January 12, 2025, 07:07:38 PM2. Forbidden Lands from Free League. I have not played this, but I love their other games. Excellent mechanics, and a cool setting.

Is FBL considered OSR adjacent by some?   I never got that feel from playing it though I am a vocal fan of the system so that's not a dig on it by any means.   I just never thought of it even remotely being anything like OSR but I suppose people can have vastly different definitions of the term.

Quote from: RNGm on January 12, 2025, 08:01:13 PM

Quote from: MerrillWeathermay on January 12, 2025, 07:07:38 PM2. Forbidden Lands from Free League. I have not played this, but I love their other games. Excellent mechanics, and a cool setting.

Is FBL considered OSR adjacent by some?   I never got that feel from playing it though I am a vocal fan of the system so that's not a dig on it by any means.   I just never thought of it even remotely being anything like OSR but I suppose people can have vastly different definitions of the term.

I can't speak for the rest, but Dragonbane definitely isn't OSR.

Quote from: SmallMountaineer on January 12, 2025, 08:14:32 PM

Quote from: RNGm on January 12, 2025, 08:01:13 PM

Quote from: MerrillWeathermay on January 12, 2025, 07:07:38 PM2. Forbidden Lands from Free League. I have not played this, but I love their other games. Excellent mechanics, and a cool setting.

Is FBL considered OSR adjacent by some?   I never got that feel from playing it though I am a vocal fan of the system so that's not a dig on it by any means.   I just never thought of it even remotely being anything like OSR but I suppose people can have vastly different definitions of the term.

I can't speak for the rest, but Dragonbane definitely isn't OSR.

Agreed.  It's its own thing as a fantasy RPG coming from different routes and I wouldn't consider mirth to be a core tenet of OSR personally, lol.