Quote from: RPGPundit;624649I know, and yet it still doesn't do much for my players.  I don't think megadungeons, even run well, are for every kind of party.

RPGPundit

Yes, I'll agree not everyone will be satisfied by the mega-dungeon experience, even when run well.

I think there is a niche for dungeons which aren't genuinely campaign-defining, but which are large enough to sustain a campaign arc and provide the benefits of megadungeons (e.g. complexity and emergent gameplay). Tomb of Abysthor is a good example, even if it predates what most people call "the OSR".

Actually, this weekend, I resurrected a project of mine that's in this ballpark. We will see how far I get with it.

As for me, I certainly would never try to write up a megadungeon book or the likes.
I strongly prefer giving people tables and tools with which to create their own dungeons.  In Arrows of Indra I present a significant chapter full of details and lots and lots of cave-generation tables when I talk about the Patala Underworld, the "Megadungeon"-like complex of subterranean worlds below the surface of the earth.  It was the original underdark, really, 7 levels of 40000km each of cave complexes, ranging from claustrophobic labyrinths of tunnels to gigantic caverns the size of small countries.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;624978As for me, I certainly would never try to write up a megadungeon book or the likes.
I strongly prefer giving people tables and tools with which to create their own dungeons.  In Arrows of Indra I present a significant chapter full of details and lots and lots of cave-generation tables when I talk about the Patala Underworld, the "Megadungeon"-like complex of subterranean worlds below the surface of the earth.  It was the original underdark, really, 7 levels of 40000km each of cave complexes, ranging from claustrophobic labyrinths of tunnels to gigantic caverns the size of small countries.

RPGPundit

Oh ya, the Patala Underworld! I forgot about that part of the setting.  That's a cool bit.

Quote from: Kuroth;624979Oh ya, the Patala Underworld! I forgot about that part of the setting.  That's a cool bit.

Yeah.. my group is currently adventuring there.

RPGPundit

You know, the more I think about it providing the setting justification, and maybe leave in the PHB or DMG the tools on how to expand a dungeon to mega size, might be the best way to do it.

Still going through Land of Intrigue for FR 2e, and I find the very idea of Shoon - ancient capital megapolis of a cruel and decadent human empire controlling Calimshan, Tethyr, & Amn - an inspiring justification for a megadungeon. Throw in an over view map suggesting the city and its suburban districts, all supposedly occupied by Mythal (wild magic) and monsters, and it's an excellent spread to regionalize "dungeon areas." Further, city districts, and hidden catacombs & sewers underneath, can spawn additional justifications to return for more than just generic treasure hunting.

I think the idea of it being surrounded by forts, and in general being such a lasting fixture upon the land, means there's no real pressure to "solve it all in one go before someone else gets the best treasure." It becomes like an anti-city, a foothold of opposing (monster) civilization encroaching on spheres of safe order. However, I also see how part of its magic is being undefined, like a dream...

So maybe that's what bugs me most about dungeons in general, which could apply to megadungeons.  I need a good reason to entice my players in, and I need it to be cohesive in concept. Further, it has to be its own anti-civilization ecology. Defining down to every last starving snake and copper encrusted debris somehow sucks out a lot of its magic (you'd think the starving snake would leave at least). And finally, it has to be ignorable at times so that the party can take a break.

Just musing out my own thoughts on my near visceral dislike of such products.

Quote from: RPGPundit;624978In Arrows of Indra I present a significant chapter full of details and lots and lots of cave-generation tables when I talk about the Patala Underworld, the "Megadungeon"-like complex of subterranean worlds below the surface of the earth.  It was the original underdark, really, 7 levels of 40000km each of cave complexes, ranging from claustrophobic labyrinths of tunnels to gigantic caverns the size of small countries.

Oh, yeah, that right there amps my interest in AoI even higher. There's a version of Patala in my homebrew but only a handful of players have ever gotten near it so it never got much of a fleshing out... it's been more of a source than a destination, so far.

Quote from: Simlasa;625380Oh, yeah, that right there amps my interest in AoI even higher. There's a version of Patala in my homebrew but only a handful of players have ever gotten near it so it never got much of a fleshing out... it's been more of a source than a destination, so far.

When you want the good stuff to come into play, make it accessible.

You'll see. It works wonders.

Quote from: Benoist;625381When you want the good stuff to come into play, make it accessible.

You'll see. It works wonders.

Oh, it's accessible, but it keeps scaring folks away... probably because I shoved those creepy Frankenstein dwarves from Cadwallon into it. I guess 'too scary' might be a form of 'no access'. They keep planning to go back but never do.

Quote from: Simlasa;625383Oh, it's accessible, but it keeps scaring folks away... probably because I shoved those creepy Frankenstein dwarves from Cadwallon into it. I guess 'too scary' might be a form of 'no access'...

It is, psychologically so.

The Patala underworld is supposed to be scary as shit.  In AoI its clearly intended for mid-level play. I mean, you're entirely likely to encounter a nest of demons on the first level of the underworld, so we're talking about parties that must have at least a serious amount of magic.

At low-level play, you want to adventure in civilized areas: in cities or surrounding countryside; then after that maybe try out forests, surface ruins, bandit camps, etc.

The Patala Underworld is for when you've made it to around level 5-7 as a minimum.  Its where you go once you've been around the block a bit, and are ready to try to get the "big score".  Its really easy to die down there, but of course if you find a cave of Glowing Patala Gems, or an Asura Succubus' treasure hoard (without getting the life sucked out of you), and can get back to the surface from there, you're set for life.

RPGPundit

I would really, really like to get my hands on Kent's Aione(sp?) megadungeon.

Quote from: Planet Algol;625584I would really, really like to get my hands on Kent's Aione(sp?) megadungeon.

Kent? as in... the guy who keeps sockpuppetting us to shit on Zac?

Kent is layered, like an onion.

Quote from: RPGPundit;625794Kent? as in... the guy who keeps sockpuppetting us to shit on Zac?

Why, yes, didn't you know that he blogs about his world Agonmayar and his megadungeon-mapping?


From here.

Gaming in Aione
Augmenting Megadungeon Map


From Map Aesthetics and Detail for The High Wilds

Map of Africa in the manner of Judges Guild Wilderlands

Nice-to-look-at maps.