Who Rolls the Dice in this Family Anyway?

Simlasa · August 30, 2016, 12:45:29 PM

Quote from: nDervish;916179That's one of the big things I like about GM-only rolling, and also the reason I'm always baffled by people who insist that a die-rolling mechanic is inferior because it doesn't provide transparent probabilities. If I want to jump a stream in real life, I know "I'm almost certain to make it", not "I have a 97% chance to make it".

It's just that "I have a 97% chance to make it" on a percentile roll translates more easily, for most people, than calculating the odds of, say, a pool of mixed die types, into "I'm almost certain to make it." So transparent probabilities might also aid a GM who is doing all the rolling, so they could give quicker estimates to Players asking about the seeming difficulty of things.

Of course, Skarg is still on point with his comment. I haven't played without Player rolls but I'd happily give it a try.

Omega · August 30, 2016, 05:43:49 PM

Quote from: Simlasa;916215It's just that "I have a 97% chance to make it" on a percentile roll translates more easily, for most people, than calculating the odds of, say, a pool of mixed die types, into "I'm almost certain to make it." So transparent probabilities might also aid a GM who is doing all the rolling, so they could give quicker estimates to Players asking about the seeming difficulty of things.

Of course, Skarg is still on point with his comment. I haven't played without Player rolls but I'd happily give it a try.

Having done it I can say its alot more legwork for the DM. And personally it feels like Im taking something away from the players. Hard to describe.

What I do roll myself normally are things the PCs wouldnt know was going on if they failed the roll. Someone just tried to read their mind for example. Or someone sneaking up on them. Otherwise I prefer the players roll their own to hits, saves, checks, etc.

Simlasa · August 30, 2016, 08:27:01 PM

Quote from: Omega;916273Having done it I can say its alot more legwork for the DM. And personally it feels like Im taking something away from the players. Hard to describe.

I'm guessing it depends on the game group. Except for the DCC group I'm in most of the games I play don't really involve much dice rolling.
As for taking something away from the players... I'd assumed that this idea would be something the whole group would agree on, at least as an experiment... otherwise it wouldn't happen. Not some bossy GM thing.

rgrove0172 · August 30, 2016, 10:11:02 PM

By a strange coincidence the game I just purchased and began a solo adventure on last evening has 100% of the rolls made by the players. No game mechanic rolls are made by the GM whatsoever. Ive heard of such games but never encountered one. Players attacks monster, rolls dice. Monster attacks player, attack hits unless player avoids etc. Player persuades NPC, rolls dice. NPC persuades player, player rolls to avoid.

complete reversal from what I intended this thread to discuss.

Omega · August 31, 2016, 12:54:32 AM

Theres a few of those out.

Some were made simpley because no one wanted to be the DM and so someone made a system where everyone is a mini-DM.

Some were made to shackle or outright do away with a DM in reaction to various slights recieved from DMs real or imagined. Taken to sometimes pathological hatred levels.

Some are just experimentation with a kewl idea. Because.

Skarg · August 31, 2016, 01:24:16 PM

Quote from: rgrove0172;916101Im not sure what direction you are coming from there. I felt like the only person that really got cheated was him. All those amazing successes, the critical hits, the last second 'pull it out of your ass' good luck felt genuine and amazing to me as I didn't know they were contrived. For him, with the result known before hand and never in doubt, it had to have lost a little drama, or so I tell myself.

People who cheat often don't realize what they're missing. When you omit a random roll, you literally don't know what you missed... and in a non-railroad game, every event can affect the entire rest of the story.

Skarg · August 31, 2016, 01:31:19 PM

This doesn't work with everyone, but I tend to have (and/or cultivate) players who, though some really love rolling their own dice, also appreciate that I may have interesting reasons to be adding modifiers or rolling other dice because there are things it's best if they don't know about which make the game more interesting.

rgrove0172 · August 31, 2016, 01:36:36 PM

Ive had players provide a list of rolls for me to use for hidden results like notice, detection etc. They were that controlling. Id have a list of 20 or so numbers they rolled before the game and check one off each time I needed a roll they shouldn't know about. Wow, but you do what you have to sometimes.

Bren · August 31, 2016, 04:25:55 PM

Quote from: rgrove0172;916414Ive had players provide a list of rolls for me to use for hidden results like notice, detection etc. They were that controlling. Id have a list of 20 or so numbers they rolled before the game and check one off each time I needed a roll they shouldn't know about. Wow, but you do what you have to sometimes.

Odd. But people often are.

darthfozzywig · August 31, 2016, 06:58:33 PM

Quote from: Bren;916448Odd. But people often are.

Odd? Gamers? Surely thou jest!

Jesteth.

Jesteseses.

Omega · August 31, 2016, 08:46:26 PM

Quote from: rgrove0172;916414Ive had players provide a list of rolls for me to use for hidden results like notice, detection etc. They were that controlling. Id have a list of 20 or so numbers they rolled before the game and check one off each time I needed a roll they shouldn't know about. Wow, but you do what you have to sometimes.

I actually used that once as a test. Had the players pre-roll for hidden rolls and then just checked each as went. The players kinda liked it.

Handed out an index card each and told them roll 10 times and note it down. In 5e I just have each characters passive score noted.

RPGPundit · September 06, 2016, 12:28:51 PM

I think "only players roll" is a terrible idea. I think "only the GM rolls" is also a pretty bad idea, from the point of view of game-design.

Simlasa · September 06, 2016, 02:25:15 PM

Quote from: rgrove0172;916414Ive had players provide a list of rolls for me to use for hidden results like notice, detection etc. They were that controlling. Id have a list of 20 or so numbers they rolled before the game and check one off each time I needed a roll they shouldn't know about.

I like that idea for stuff where you wouldn't want them to know there's a check... like, any time the GM asks for a Perception roll it implies there's something to percieve.
I was playing online over the weekend using Fantasy Grounds and there's a hidden roll box in one corner... for when players shouldn't know what the results are... like for move silently or hide. That got me thinking I could just put a small dice tower on the table for Players to drop dice into... with the results end hidden from view. I'd like that as a Player too... that way I still get to roll... but won't know the result.

Opaopajr · September 06, 2016, 04:39:09 PM

Quote from: The_Shadow;915993First we had the gimmick of "only the players roll", which I never got...now you're proposing only the GM roll? I humbly submit the approach of having neither GM nor players roll, but a lackey specially employed for the purpose, with a unique livery.

Can he have a pop-o-matic bubble upon a glittery platform?

Omega · September 06, 2016, 09:03:30 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit;917451I think "only players roll" is a terrible idea. I think "only the GM rolls" is also a pretty bad idea, from the point of view of game-design.

If only players roll then you get the problem of. "What is the point of having a GM?" Assuming theres a GM at all.

With only the GM rolls its not bad design. But it does put alot more work on the GM. Thake that a step further and only the GM knows your HP. Even more bookkeeping for the GM. Possibly great for players obsessed with immersion or dice-o-phobes. Probably horrible for GM haters and those who just like to handle their own tasks.