Quote from: JongWKLooks good, Levi. :win:

Do you have a summary of the main changes and tweaks?

Thanks!

I have two lists, actually.

Changes I already made:

-Folded toughness into fortitude.

-Folded defense into reflex.

-Gave a pupose to will.

-Ripped out origins; turned most of them into kinship feats.

-Added numinous feats.

-Rebuild the health track to allow for really nasty results - Like one-hit kills.

The next set, which will be drastic enough to rename the game.

-Rip out advancement traits as they exist, changing them into skills.

-Attach the "advancing by level" trick to ability scores instead.

-Strip combat down to pure bones, and rebuilt it to allow the group to treat other kinds of situations as conflicts.  So, I'm sneaking across the courtyard, the guard is trying to catch me, and that would be "a fight" of sorts.

-Change health into conditions at set levels (Light, Moderate, Serious, Critical, Incapacitating, Deadly), and make a set of such conditions for things other than health - like sanity.

And that sounds like this hugely insane thing.  But it's actually almost paralyzingly simple in my head.  Putting it on a page is another thing.

I see True 20 as nothing more than a set of published House Rules which costs you money.
 
Most DMs would house rule their game anyway.

Quote from: LawbagI see True 20 as nothing more than a set of published House Rules which costs you money.
 
Most DMs would house rule their game anyway.

Then this could be said of any of the D20 games released since 3.0 came out, including 3.5. That said, lets give it to ya. True20 is a set of houserules. It just happens to be a well thought out, streamlined, flexible, interesting set of houserules that I personally happen to like, so I'm perfectly willing to pay the money for them. If you're not, then suit yourself.

I think True20 is a fine system, well constructed, and well thought out, and a much more sensible take on a "streamlined d20" than C&C.

And I am entirely not in the market for it. Some of the things it aims to take out are things I find desirable in a game, and after my experience with HERO (which is not bad, mind you), I understand that there is real value in having stuff build for you instead of building everything yourself. Having three classes that you can twist and bend is not a huge selling point for me... I prefer more classes that take less tweaking.

So no, you are not alone. I can understand why some people are excited by it. But I'm not.

Quote from: LawbagI see True 20 as nothing more than a set of published House Rules which costs you money.
 
Most DMs would house rule their game anyway.

I play neither True20 nor D&D3/3.5E. I think that pretty much 99% of the supplements/products made for 3E is exactly what you say True20 is as well--however, there is a point at which people simply don't have or want to spend the time having to cut up a rule set to "house rule" it to work for them, and build something simpler for them to start with--money spent saves them time--just like money spent to buy oh, some prepackaged adventure, or the Epic Level handbook, or the Complete Adventurer book--saves someone else time.

That being said--it offers significant changes (magic system, combat system) that makes the game play different as well---enough so that if its just house ruled 3E, then 3E is just house ruled AD&D2E which is just 1E which...you see where I'm going right?

I don't currently play either (and don't currently plan to) but its pretty simple that some people want a rulebook they can refer to that has just what they WANT--without having to do a lot of extra work. This is a HOBBY, not a job, for most people.

Quote from: LawbagI see True 20 as nothing more than a set of published House Rules which costs you money.
 
Most DMs would house rule their game anyway.

You could say that about...well, not only all d20 game and supplements, but pretty much all OGL games and most of the entire GURPS line, as well. I have to admit I don't understand your reasoning.

Quote from: ColonelHardissonYou could say that about...well, not only all d20 game and supplements, but pretty much all OGL games and most of the entire GURPS line, as well. I have to admit I don't understand your reasoning.

You could pretty much say that about any game ever written.  The GM being able to change things is not the point.  THe point is how close is where the game starts off to what you like?  I don't think I've ever run anything by the book.

Quote from: MaddmanYou could pretty much say that about any game ever written.  The GM being able to change things is not the point.  THe point is how close is where the game starts off to what you like?  I don't think I've ever run anything by the book.

Indeed. Well said.

Quote from: MaddmanYou could pretty much say that about any game ever written.  The GM being able to change things is not the point.  THe point is how close is where the game starts off to what you like?  I don't think I've ever run anything by the book.

I also agree with you, I  bought True20 and Blue Rose because I like the changes the rules/settings bring to the D20 game. The fact that it's so easy to convert monsters, skills, feats, and characters from base D20 to True20 is a huge bonus, making easy work of the houseruling by quite a bit. Like the Col., I don't understand Lawbag's reasoning.