Do mercenaries play a part in your games?
If so, who acts as a guarantor for mercenary contracts?
Historically the Catholic church did "banking" so, some church seems a likely option.
Faith works as a good "enforcement".
Quote from: Greentongue;1020744Do mercenaries play a part in your games?
If so, who acts as a guarantor for mercenary contracts?
Historically the Catholic church did "banking" so, some church seems a likely option.
Faith works as a good "enforcement".
In my D&D games. sometimes the guilds do. Other times, it is whoever is in charge locally. If the Players hire mercenaries, it is up to them to Vet or screen their mercenary hirelings.
Quote from: Greentongue;1020744Do mercenaries play a part in your games?
If so, who acts as a guarantor for mercenary contracts?
Historically the Catholic church did "banking" so, some church seems a likely option.
Faith works as a good "enforcement".
In the OTU of Traveller, it is the Third Imperium.
I usually say that it is the largest spanning government, that way they can decide if the mercenaries have weapons or intent which threaten their government and act as guarantor. Nobody wants the Big Government coming in and crushing a capitalist military endeavor because someone is not following the rules.
Quote from: Greentongue;1020744Do mercenaries play a part in your games?
In the Majestic Wilderlands it is the web of social contact and reputation. The essence of the relationship is that in exchange for money and a share of the loot, I will fight for you. With all else equal, the reason one company gets hired over another is because of the reputation of the captain and his men. There is no impersonal shopping mart where you can buy mercenary service. There is a Mercernaries Guild that functions as a social club and has a loose standard of conduct. Nobles and the government tend to be willing to pay a bit of a premium to hire companies that are members of the guild. However the captain and the lord doing the hiring have to have some level of trust. If they don't like each other the deal isn't happening.
There's no guarantor of mercenary contracts in my Wilderlands D&D games. Usually the mercs are contracted to a local lord or town that would be judge in their own case, anyway. Those local potentates don't want to encourage the hiring of mercs by anyone who might threaten them.
I guess mercs hired by a merchant, in theory either side could seek redress from a local lord/town if cheated, but in practice reputation is far more important. If the mercs turned on their employer they'd be declared brigands, while if the merchant cheated his mercenaries he can forget about hiring more (and would likely run into 'goblins' on his next trip...)
Reputation, money and threat of violence.
The person hiring the mercenaries guarantees their behavior by paying them, keeping to the contract with regards to allowed looting, etc. and when discharging them, either makes sure they give them time to find other work, or paying them extra to go away.
The mercenaries guarantee the hirer's behavior by taking their pay from his lands and people should he renege on the contract.
Also reputation plays into both, neither party wants to be in the position where they are unable to make another due to a bad rep. Although the hirers definitely have an advantage here, having the coin.
You need to read about Sir John Hawkwood and the White Company.
Chirine can recommend a good book or three.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1020776You need to read about Sir John Hawkwood and the White Company.
Something else for the Amazon Wish List...... :D
Was it the Catholic Church who did that or the Templars?
But along that lines, the Assassin's guild would be an interesting possibility.
Player characters pay to hire mercenaries in my games, mostly.
In my own RPG mercenaries were either hired on the spot on the trust/rep system. Or they worked through one of the mercenary guilds. Depended on the region. Some hired sight unseen. Others had extensive vetting systems. Same for PCs trying to hire.
In AD&D I set up a sort of "adventurers guild" that handled training and even some quest contracts. Screw up too much and you might find training costing more or the doors outright closed. There were also mercenary guilds and such.
In Star Frontiers theres at least two mercenary companies that hire out for jobs as guards, security, etc.
And same applies to non-com. Sometimes its hire on sight and trust, sometimes its interview time, and sometimes you have to go to a guild and sign a contract.
As a player I actually enjoy the interview style. I can pick hirelings and mercs to my needs rather than having people assigned. Possibly people who dont want to be there but are obligated to. But sometimes you just have to bite the sling bullet and hit up a company and go through them. But I think that the company style fits really well for Star Frontiers considering the scope and threat levels.
Plenty of room for all sorts of styles of hire.
Quote from: Greentongue;1020744who acts as a guarantor for mercenary contracts?
Who acts as a guarantor for any other contract?
Quote from: Bren;1020853Who acts as a guarantor for any other contract?
Often, it's "societal pressure". You have to keep your contract, because society will cast you out if you break it. If in a setting mercenaries already are outcasts, or really low on the social ladder, this pressure might not work so well. If they are, in general, regarded as reputable businessmen, it might be enough.
In TFT's "Cidri" setting, there tends to be a Mercenaries Guild, which you need to report to as part of the contract, so they don't suspect you of killing your own mercs when you're done with them to avoid payment. Since the Mercenaries Guild is widespread (or there are many guilds which have a common interest) and made up of skilled fighters very interested in their own safety and the honoring of contracts, you probably really don't want to get on their bad side.
Quote from: Pyromancer;1020861Often, it's "societal pressure". You have to keep your contract, because society will cast you out if you break it. If in a setting mercenaries already are outcasts, or really low on the social ladder, this pressure might not work so well. If they are, in general, regarded as reputable businessmen, it might be enough.
I should think that in most settings, being a mercenary who reneges on a deal is sure way to have every man's hand against you. Mercenaries are hated enough as it is, so biting the hand that feeds you is suicidal. As for the one doing the hiring, screwing over hired killers is foolhardy.
In my game, not only is there no vetting of mercenaries except by reputation/inquiries PCs make, but you roll randomly to see who might be available as a hireling when you go looking for one (or more). They can get all sorts replying. Take 'em or leave 'em. There's not a surplus of folk willing to risk life and limb in the dark places of the world for the party's coin.
Interesting replies so far. Certainly food for thought.
Starting a mercenary guild if there is not one already sounds like a good idea.
Trying to collect where you are on the losing side could get interesting.
Quote from: Bren;1020853Who acts as a guarantor for any other contract?
I would think that most contracts are not going the be with professional killers so social pressure might be enough.
=
Hawkwood's White Company evolved out of the companies of the Hundred Years' War. As the 40 days of feudal service became insufficient, contracts for providing soldiers came into being.
Really, some reading about the Hundred Years' War, the Italian Condotteri, and Hawkwood will answer all your questions.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1020985Really, some reading about the Hundred Years' War, the Italian Condotteri, and Hawkwood will answer all your questions.
But reading is hard.... /whine
The contract is guaranteed by the sword.
Of course, PCs who keep hiring mercenaries and coming back to town without them develop a reputation.
But in general, Psikerlord's post defines it for my worlds. Only the most desperate sign on to fight monsters in the dark for money. AKA, the flunkies, freaks and scum no legitimate employer wants!!
Quote from: Bren;1021011But reading is hard.... /whine
Just watch
The Wild Geese. And keep in mind that that movie takes place in a world where there are governments and courts.
You can watch it free here:
[video=youtube;uasbhm4GCeU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uasbhm4GCeU[/youtube]
Quote from: Bren;1021011But reading is hard.... /whine
Then I am definitely in the wrong hobby.
Had two titles, per Gronan's request: "Lost Dorsai", by Dickson, and "Forlorn Hope" by Drake.
Didn't Gordy Dickson put you on to a book on Hawkwood? Can't remember the name, though.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1020985Hawkwood's White Company evolved out of the companies of the Hundred Years' War. As the 40 days of feudal service became insufficient, contracts for providing soldiers came into being.
Really, some reading about the Hundred Years' War, the Italian Condotteri, and Hawkwood will answer all your questions.
Yeah the Condotteri are really interesting, they still have tons of records dating back from those days: Names of Mercenary Companies, Types of Troops, Engagements, etc. More documents then you'd want to read if you can read Italian. If not, the amount is a whole lot less, but still cool.
Quote from: chirine ba kal;1021295Had two titles, per Gronan's request: "Lost Dorsai", by Dickson, and "Forlorn Hope" by Drake.
Read the first, though I can't recall any details. I own the second which was inspired by Xenophon's
Anabasis. Trivia note: so was
Star Guard by Andre Norton. Xenophon's original, though not at all Medieval, is a good read too.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1021338Didn't Gordy Dickson put you on to a book on Hawkwood? Can't remember the name, though.
He put me onto a whole series of texts on the guy, which made for quite fascinating reading. Phil also had a lot on this as well, which is where a lot of his take on mercenaries came from.
Quote from: Bren;1021368Read the first, though I can't recall any details. I own the second which was inspired by Xenophon's Anabasis. Trivia note: so was Star Guard by Andre Norton. Xenophon's original, though not at all Medieval, is a good read too.
Agreed; excellent reading, if I may say so.
I'm pretty sure that the main guarantee was reputation.
Quote from: Greentongue;1020744Do mercenaries play a part in your games?
If so, who acts as a guarantor for mercenary contracts?
Historically the Catholic church did "banking" so, some church seems a likely option.
Faith works as a good "enforcement".
There's not always a 'guarantor', and usually you as the one hiring them, or as member/leader of mercenaries just hope payment will happen. Risk can be lowered by knowing much about the involved parties and if they tend to honour agreements based on their reputation. (information gathering)
A mercenary company might be loyal to, or located in a city. Genoese mercenaries would obviously be Genoese, but that doesn't mean the city is a guarantor, or that the mercs wouldn't get persuaded by a good payment and/or other things to turn against Genoa. Historically many mercs did betray or were betrayed. In fantasy setting there might be one or more Mercenary Guilds which enforce deals to be honored and punish breaking agreements with being expelled from the guild and/or becoming a black listed enemy. (If you hire mercs but betray or not pay them, the guild won't even work with you again, and might even send parties after you to kill you for the treachery)
Historically, mercenaries unpaid had a tendency to loot the area held by the employer that stiffed them.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1021823Historically, mercenaries unpaid had a tendency to loot the area held by the employer that stiffed them.
Weren't they actually a lot more likely to loot the area they were currently in at the time which might, or might not, be controlled by their employer?
After the medieval period troops were often not paid in a timely fashion. Getting paid the agreed amount on time was much more the exception than it was the rule.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1021823Historically, mercenaries unpaid had a tendency to loot the area held by the employer that stiffed them.
Sometimes they would loot even when they were paid!
Both of you are right. So always cheat your mercenaries when they're in enemy territory. Of course if your enemy knows this they might pay the mercs...
"Pas d'argent, pas de Suisse."
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1022286Both of you are right. So always cheat your mercenaries when they're in enemy territory. Of course if your enemy knows this they might pay the mercs...
In that case you steal the enemy pay wagon before it is delivered.
Quote from: Bren;1022376In that case you steal the enemy pay wagon before it is delivered.
Which, in fact, is the theme of "Siege of Bodenberg," the miniatures game using Elastolin medieval figures that inspired Jeff Perren to create the first draft of the CHAINMAIL rules.
You want to be careful about cheating your mercenaries for another reason... you might need mercenaries again in some future war.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1022662You want to be careful about cheating your mercenaries for another reason... you might need mercenaries again in some future war.
That indeed is a HUGE reason.
I don't know of any occasion in the War of the Roses, for example, where mercenaries went unpaid. I know of a couple of instances where Scottish mercenaries went on rampages just because, mind you.