Been creating and playing testing aa B/X style adventure for almost two years now. Nearly ready to put them up on Drivthru. Just got a domain name so I can support my stuff with other free content and maybe sell there too.
Before I publish my main stuff - adventures, I want to put a few smaller GM toolkit type items for free or for $1. The main thing is to get products out there and start to build a name for myself - hopefully some people beyond my gaming group and the Con people I've tested with like my stuff enough to pay a few bucks.
Not sure if I'm going to do a small kickstarter for art costs or if that is even worth it.
I'm going back and forth between the arguments of offering stuff for free vs perceived greater value if it costs a buck or two. The goal is to get my name out and get more people to lay eyes on my stuff. . . . . I realize that's going to take some time, maybe a really long time.
Main question: Assuming title and cover art drew you in for a closer look, would you realistically be more likely to get an item if it were free or if it were $1-2? I don't care about the money for that - just want to build a body of work that people get or at least remember (I'm trying to use a specific look and style for my stuff). Thanks.
Free stuff often feels like the author is saying "this isn't worth anything" while $1-2 feels like a bargain. If I were trying to build a name, I think I'd project confidence in my work by at least going for the "Pay what you want" option with a $1-2 suggested price.
Ditto to what Featus said.
Quote from: Festus on March 24, 2023, 09:59:33 PM
Free stuff often feels like the author is saying "this isn't worth anything"
Most of the time (and there are exceptions) I associate 'free' with poor quality and not worth picking up.
Quote from: Festus on March 24, 2023, 09:59:33 PM
Free stuff often feels like the author is saying "this isn't worth anything" while $1-2 feels like a bargain. If I were trying to build a name, I think I'd project confidence in my work by at least going for the "Pay what you want" option with a $1-2 suggested price.
For me, I'm more likely to read something if it's free rather than if it costs $1-2. But people differ.
At least *something* needs to be free or PWYW so that people can check out the quality of your work. So at least one free thing, the others can be $1 (if very short, like 8 pages) or $2 (eg 16 pages). IMO that's the case even with a preview.
Quote from: jhkim on March 24, 2023, 11:05:06 PM
For me, I'm more likely to read something if it's free rather than if it costs $1-2. But people differ.
Me too.
Quote from: Vic99 on March 24, 2023, 09:46:18 PM
Been creating and playing testing aa B/X style adventure for almost two years now. Nearly ready to put them up on Drivthru. Just got a domain name so I can support my stuff with other free content and maybe sell there too.
Before I publish my main stuff - adventures, I want to put a few smaller GM toolkit type items for free or for $1. The main thing is to get products out there and start to build a name for myself - hopefully some people beyond my gaming group and the Con people I've tested with like my stuff enough to pay a few bucks.
Not sure if I'm going to do a small kickstarter for art costs or if that is even worth it.
I'm going back and forth between the arguments of offering stuff for free vs perceived greater value if it costs a buck or two. The goal is to get my name out and get more people to lay eyes on my stuff. . . . . I realize that's going to take some time, maybe a really long time.
Main question: Assuming title and cover art drew you in for a closer look, would you realistically be more likely to get an item if it were free or if it were $1-2? I don't care about the money for that - just want to build a body of work that people get or at least remember (I'm trying to use a specific look and style for my stuff). Thanks.
I'm going to be a little contrary, because I've seen free stuff that was great, and pricey stuff that was terrible, so I don't care if you charge zero or a buck in that situation. I care about, why should I check out your book What's the "hook"? There is
So
Much
Crap
On drivethru, it's hard to sift through the glut. I usually go there and buy stuff I've heard about from another source, like a video review.
To be honest, I'm mainly interested in free adventures that get reviewed on https://tenfootpole.org/ironspike even if the review isn't a glowing review. Byrce breaks things down well enough that I know what I'll be getting.
There are alot of good, free products out there. More than I can possibly ever play. So a good adventure at a cost gets passed over for a good adventure at no cost.
If there's art, having a free version without art and a paid version with art is probably the best option. That says you think what you've made is worth something but also lets the end users decide for themselves.
When I look at DTRPG and I see complete no names charging £15 or more for PDFs that are clearly word documents converted to PDF with stock art assets it doesn't endear me to the product. Having some free stuff so I can get a sense of what the designer makes can be very helpful in that regard. A free demo version of the product as I've seen from games like Notequest and 2D6 Dungeons is ideal as opposed to separate things that don't relate to the main product being sold.
Quote from: S'mon on March 25, 2023, 04:07:32 AM
At least *something* needs to be free or PWYW so that people can check out the quality of your work. So at least one free thing, the others can be $1 (if very short, like 8 pages) or $2 (eg 16 pages). IMO that's the case even with a preview.
I personally avoid PWYW products, unless it is from a known to me source. In principal, I agree with the concept. In practice, some part of of my brain just treats it as an infinite price and moves on. Your mental wiring probably works differently however.
The art free and $0 vs. with art and for some cost concept is the sweet spot in my opinion. It is largely the same as the PWYW option, but allows one to get the free one without guilt.
My habits are that I accumulate free or PWYW PDFs if they look to be of interest. But I may not read them for years, and even then might just be a skim, if I have no use for them at the time of initial download.
One dollar or five dollars, I won't lay down money unless I'm into the game for some reason. That may include prior play or a review I lend credence to.
Of course, I'm not one of those gamers who's always on the lookout for, or willing to try, lots of new games.
I agree with prior comments about at least something being free for you to get exposure. I don't see any stigma to a free or PWYW item. And the "no art" free version is a good compromise.
Quote from: Howard on March 25, 2023, 02:33:43 PM
Quote from: S'mon on March 25, 2023, 04:07:32 AM
At least *something* needs to be free or PWYW so that people can check out the quality of your work. So at least one free thing, the others can be $1 (if very short, like 8 pages) or $2 (eg 16 pages). IMO that's the case even with a preview.
I personally avoid PWYW products, unless it is from a known to me source. In principal, I agree with the concept. In practice, some part of of my brain just treats it as an infinite price and moves on. Your mental wiring probably works differently however.
The art free and $0 vs. with art and for some cost concept is the sweet spot in my opinion. It is largely the same as the PWYW option, but allows one to get the free one without guilt.
Well I'm the same as you. But I recognise that we're odd. ;D
Quote from: S'mon on March 25, 2023, 04:07:32 AM
At least *something* needs to be free or PWYW so that people can check out the quality of your work. So at least one free thing, the others can be $1 (if very short, like 8 pages) or $2 (eg 16 pages). IMO that's the case even with a preview.
That'd be my advice too, this is what I do with my "dark fantasy" line. One free/PWYW, the rest usually in low prices.
Caveat: I usually get one bad (three stars) review every time I post something free.
Quote from: Howard on March 25, 2023, 02:33:43 PM
Quote from: S'mon on March 25, 2023, 04:07:32 AM
At least *something* needs to be free or PWYW so that people can check out the quality of your work. So at least one free thing, the others can be $1 (if very short, like 8 pages) or $2 (eg 16 pages). IMO that's the case even with a preview.
I personally avoid PWYW products, unless it is from a known to me source. In principal, I agree with the concept. In practice, some part of of my brain just treats it as an infinite price and moves on. Your mental wiring probably works differently however.
Same. I also read several experienced publishers in a similar topic in another board mention that PWYW products are often worse than Free products when it comes to people actually getting them, cuz most people apparently have no qualms about DLing literal free stuff, but feel like they're cheating the publishers if the product is PWYW, but they have no money to give. So the PWYW ends up getting DLed FAR less often than the explicitly "free" stuff.
So I'd recommended a combination of actual Free stuff people can DL guilt-free to get a taste for quality, and actual paid products that are decently priced, including pricey stuff if it's actually worth it. People willing and able will shell out more than 1-2 bucks easy, but people without lots of money are more likely to get free stuff than pay $1 for things, IMO.
I'm also gonna go against what some people here have said and say that cost does not correlate with quality. I've DLed plenty of decent products for free at Drivethru RPG. Stars Without Number and Worlds Without Number have almost entire full books as free versions, for crying out loud! And Kevin Crawford is one of the most renowned names in the OSR.
IMO, if you wanna make a name for yourself, having some free (as opposed to PWYW) version of your stuff out there is crucial, for people to be able to peruse what you have and make a determination whether they wanna shell out actual dollars for the full products.
Quote from: Eric Diaz on March 25, 2023, 08:23:45 PM
That'd be my advice too, this is what I do with my "dark fantasy" line. One free/PWYW, the rest usually in low prices.
Caveat: I usually get one bad (three stars) review every time I post something free.
Most people see a free product and think it's got to be junk. The same online as offline. It's fucked up someone does that crap to you.
Brick and mortar stores have this cool feature where you can look through the book to see if it's any good before you buy it. If I'm going to buy your product, I need to be able to do something like that. For obvious reasons, digital publishing struggles to reproduce this aspect of in-person shopping.
Let's say you have a 15-page adventure that is broken up into 3 parts, each of which is 5 pages. I would like to be able to look over the first complete 5-page part of your adventure to evaluate the product before I purchase it.
Some people are going to mooch the first section of each adventure and not buy anything. This is like putting out a few free pdfs. However, each of your free pdfs is connected to the rest of your products. They aren't spending money on an unknown. If a customer thinks one of your adventures is very good, they go buy the rest of it.
Quote from: Corolinth on March 26, 2023, 10:46:58 AM
Brick and mortar stores have this cool feature where you can look through the book to see if it's any good before you buy it. If I'm going to buy your product, I need to be able to do something like that. For obvious reasons, digital publishing struggles to reproduce this aspect of in-person shopping.
Let's say you have a 15-page adventure that is broken up into 3 parts, each of which is 5 pages. I would like to be able to look over the first complete 5-page part of your adventure to evaluate the product before I purchase it.
Some people are going to mooch the first section of each adventure and not buy anything. This is like putting out a few free pdfs. However, each of your free pdfs is connected to the rest of your products. They aren't spending money on an unknown. If a customer thinks one of your adventures is very good, they go buy the rest of it.
Drivethru supports this feature. Click on a product of interest. Click on the "full sized preview". I'm not sure if it is creator enabled or OBS enabled, but the random product I picked showed 18 pages of content (TOC plus some of the 1st section). Looking at stuff from a midsized company I support- they have 3-4 page previews on most things. This covers their TOC and 1-2 pages of content.
I'd say a combination of freebies and low cost. For every person that won't bother trying something for free, there's a person that won't pay sight unseen; and vice-versa.
Cover all your bases.
Quote from: Jason Coplen on March 25, 2023, 08:30:22 PM
Quote from: Eric Diaz on March 25, 2023, 08:23:45 PM
That'd be my advice too, this is what I do with my "dark fantasy" line. One free/PWYW, the rest usually in low prices.
Caveat: I usually get one bad (three stars) review every time I post something free.
Most people see a free product and think it's got to be junk. The same online as offline. It's fucked up someone does that crap to you.
Oh well, I'm used to it now, and I heard from other publishers that I'm not the only target here. It is baffling and annoying, but it is the cost of doing business, I guess...
Not advice, but when my game is up (and it isn't particularly close) I intend to have two versions of the game; a free one intended to act as an introduction, and a power-user edition which will probably cost $20 or thereabouts.
However, I have a core mechanic which has valid reasons to be tuned two different ways for two different groups of players, so making profit is not the only reason to market the game this way.
I have some marginal experience in the field, for whatever that's worth. Products tend to sell better when you have a free preview and charge a reasonable amount for it. Forget $1-2; between transaction fees and the appearance of cheapness, you won't get much out of it. If you're publishing a module, you should go for at least $5, give a good and functional preview, and perhaps have a reduced free version. If you're going for pay-what-you-want, it's essentially the same deal except you're giving the whole product away for free.
I tend towards generosity myself, and I've given away archives of my work for shockingly low prices, but if you're making a public storefront, you should give the price enough of a bump to appear respectable. This, bizarrely, has a habit of working better than being cheap.
Quote from: saki on March 26, 2023, 04:48:37 PM... if you're making a public storefront, you should give the price enough of a bump to appear respectable. This, bizarrely, has a habit of working better than being cheap.
I was reading a book about psychology last week, and it talked about this very effect. Humans have learnt to use cost as a proxy for value, particularly for something like this, where you can't really evaluate its usefulness until you've read it. So a free product, or one for a nominal amount, is subconsciously treated as worthless, and not even worth the time to read.
I like the approach of Stars Without Number, where you can get the rules for free, but there's a fairly hefty price for a version with extra sections. That way, you can check out the free version, but you "know" it must be worth doing because of the cost of the full version.
Quote from: Krazz on March 26, 2023, 05:50:16 PM
Quote from: saki on March 26, 2023, 04:48:37 PM... if you're making a public storefront, you should give the price enough of a bump to appear respectable. This, bizarrely, has a habit of working better than being cheap.
I was reading a book about psychology last week, and it talked about this very effect. Humans have learnt to use cost as a proxy for value, particularly for something like this, where you can't really evaluate its usefulness until you've read it. So a free product, or one for a nominal amount, is subconsciously treated as worthless, and not even worth the time to read.
I like the approach of Stars Without Number, where you can get the rules for free, but there's a fairly hefty price for a version with extra sections. That way, you can check out the free version, but you "know" it must be worth doing because of the cost of the full version.
Yeah, precisely. Also, I would have personally provided more of my products as pay-what-you-want if the services I used allowed for it, but it's pretty easy for people to just grab what they want and leave and never think about it when you do that. Chances are, if someone can have the product, they won't pay a price for it after the fact unless they have a powerful personal or ethical motive. That's something to be aware of - you're giving up a good chunk of your sales that way. So I suppose if you wanted to make a more reliable business out of it, you should be publishing somewhat more limited materials for free, and have an improved version for sale. For a module, perhaps a paid version might contain elaborate and focused GM-facing notes that complement the material, highlight important parts, provide advice on integrating the module into other materials like an ongoing campaign, provide useful but ancillary tools related to the content, and contain the artwork you paid good money for.