I'm sure many of us used to play a certain RPG when we were younger and still learning how to RPG.  And now that we are wiser, or our tastes have changed, or our expectations are so high now... What RPG do you now look at and go, "that game sucks"?

For me, it was Twilight 2000.  The GDW house rules didn't stay with me.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;581208I'm sure many of us used to play a certain RPG when we were younger and still learning how to RPG.  And now that we are wiser, or our tastes have changed, or our expectations are so high now... What RPG do you now look at and go, "that game sucks"?

For me, it was Twilight 2000.  The GDW house rules didn't stay with me.

This is me with D&D...and Star Wars d6 (in fact, the entire d6 system).

And I loved Marvel FASERIP until SAGA came along and did everything I wanted from a supers game better (and still hasn't really been surpassed in my book).

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;581208I'm sure many of us used to play a certain RPG when we were younger and still learning how to RPG. And now that we are wiser, or our tastes have changed, or our expectations are so high now... What RPG do you now look at and go, "that game sucks"?
 
For me, it was Twilight 2000. The GDW house rules didn't stay with me.

For me its the opposite: I find I notice and appreciate little subtleties in rules and things more, than I didn't used to see. I can't really name anything that I hate more than I used to.
 
...Oh, and what do you not like about T2000?

Star Wars WEG. I loved it as a youngster, but on a recent return I found that its pretty bad and I lost all love for it.

AD&D. I still love AD&D and run it, especially 1e (and B/X), but as a game it continually surprises me how incoherent and poorly designed it is. I suspect other than introducing me to RPGing, the system has probably contributed nothing to what I enjoy about AD&D.

AD&D 2nd edition. I had great moments playing it, I still like some of the setting material, and would still play it with the right people of course, but reading through the rules books now just makes me roll my eyes.

Oh, man, and TMNT by Palladium. Tried to recapture lighting in the bottle with that one...didn't work so well.

Space Opera...we played the hell out of that game in the 80s. Looking at it again a few years ago, I can't imagine why. Same goes for Star Frontiers.

AD&D 1e/2e - I got real frustrated with the wonkiness in the 90s and going back to OD&D is the only reason I am involved with the OSR.

Rifts. This was once my favorite RPG, and believe it or not,  I thought I'd never run a different game.

I still think it's an awesome premise, but between the clunky character generation, the horrible editing, the horrendous power creep, and the complete lack of regard for the in-setting consistency and consequences... suffice to say I've opened the book more than I care to remember in the last 15 years and never managed to look past the old warts and get a game going. Every time I think of tinkering with the rules (relatively easy) or setting (a bit trickier), I end up throwing my hands to the air and playing something else.

Admittedly, this is as much because I have tons of games I want to run, as it is because of the game's shortcomings; nevertheless, if I had a more organized book, with a more consistent and cleaned-up system, and maybe a bit more thought given to setting information (beyond new and better toys and monsters and spells and classes with every book), it might work wonders. I still yearn for a Rifts game, but with less gaming time than ever, I just can't make myself run it when games with simpler and more consistent systems, better thought out settings and text which is easier on the eyes are yearning for my attention.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;581208What RPG do you now look at and go, "that game sucks"?

Assuming we're talking Rules Suckage, gotta be Torg. The setting is genius on toast, with a side of extra genius and a coffee mug of pure brilliance, keep 'em coming...

The official campaign fell into the dark abyss somewhere around year 3, but in the beginning the setting was glorious. (Could use some tweaks, but mainly just really cool.) The rules, OTOH, were always wonky.

They didn't do what they were meant to, centered an abstract mathematical concept that, by itself, wasn't necessary and just didn't work. It also featured one chart that had to be featured every single roll, and about a dozen charts which had to be consulted on many rolls, which one depending on what you were doing.

It could use some streamlining, is what I'm saying.

OTOH, the Drama Deck was a shining, glorious mechanic and the concept of PE shines like a beacon in the dark night of shitty RPG mechanics, showing the way to the promised land, and PE lives on today in many forms, like Bennies...

Tunnels and Trolls.

It started me gaming, with 4th edition, way back.

But no matter how I tried to tweak it later, it gets so broken so fast.  Far too much 'no way you can win a fight'.

I don't know.  I've got more appreciation for D&D than I used to.  I still think that the fracturing and division caused by the OGL will prove to be the best thing that ever happened to gaming.  It's like the pavement has broken up and trees are coming up through the cracks.  But I will say I had a lot of hope for 2e D&D when it came out and soon went back to GURPS and a lot of hope for 3e D&D and quickly went back to Rolemaster Standard System.

Tunnels and Trolls is not a good system but I love it.  Broken and non-functional though it may be, it has most of the elements of a good system and 5e is probably the best writing ever seen in an rpg but the system itself is very broken and totally runs on GM fiat if it ever runs at all.

GURPS, okay I'm going to come out and say this.  I loved GURPS first edition and felt that after second came out the supplements took a hard turn in complexity that didn't peter out until 4e came along.  It was the cardboard covers and erratta that were at fault I suppose.  But I haven't played 4e much even though I approve of many of the changes.  I think the biggest problem is that SJG simply made it too big and complete in the core.  Keeping setting specific material in setting specific supplements would make the thing more accessible and easier to run.  You could just say, "Use anything in the Basic Set and Fantasy," and run with it.  It's a real chore to make case by case assessments of every advantage and skill to let the players know what they can and can't use.  Yes there's a sorter but my point is that it should be organized in the books so you don't need one.

As a general rule, most things I've played in the past I look back at now and think "how did I play that shit?".

That includes: Red Box D&D, RC D&D, AD&D2e, Star Wars D6, Shadowrun 2nd (?) edition, GURPS 3rd edition, oWoD (Storyteller is just crap), Feng Shui (which was the biggest let-down, because I remember it being fun, but on recent replay it fell flat).

Quote from: Tommy Brownell;581212And I loved Marvel FASERIP until SAGA came along and did everything I wanted from a supers game better (and still hasn't really been surpassed in my book).

Quite true, quite true.  Marvel SAGA was the under appreciated gem of the dying days of TSR.  Still amongst my favourite games, definitely the close to perfect superhero game.

D&D, Top Secret, and Twilight:2000. These were all a big deal to me in the day but I couldn't get into them today. I might even have to put Traveller in there but I'm pretty sure I could mix in some Striker and get something fun again. I can't play Spirit of the Century I suspect -- I like FATE but that version is too baroque for me now.

Exalted. I already had a rocky relationship with it from the start as I mostly liked things unpopular with other fans (mostly the grimdark nature of the setting and the, however limited, ability of Dragon Blooded to survive on their own) but the writers kept focusing on stuff I hated while being dicks to other fans like me on the forums until I couldn't give a shit anymore.

YCMV my ass.