I thought I'd ask the knowledgeable people on this forum:

I'm gonna DMing soon to my wife and my 10 years old son the classic BECMI adventures located (for the most part) in the Known World of Mystara. I'm hesitating at the moment between using the BECMI Rules Cyclopedia - to recapture the wonderment and simplicity of my first youthful forays in the wilderness of D&D - or using a retroclone of said BECMI.

I  have the maybe false impression that a good retroclone would perhaps be better organised and errated than the Cyclopedia tome. Also, strictly speaking, I debuted with the Moldvay set, and I was wondering if the Rules Cyclopedia would appeal to me (I've never read it).

Quote from: Lychee of the Exchequer;1043924I thought I'd ask the knowledgeable people on this forum:

I'm gonna DMing soon to my wife and my 10 years old son the classic BECMI adventures located (for the most part) in the Known World of Mystara. I'm hesitating at the moment between using the BECMI Rules Cyclopedia - to recapture the wonderment and simplicity of my first youthful forays in the wilderness of D&D - or using a retroclone of said BECMI.

I  have the maybe false impression that a good retroclone would perhaps be better organised and errated than the Cyclopedia tome. Also, strictly speaking, I debuted with the Moldvay set, and I was wondering if the Rules Cyclopedia would appeal to me (I've never read it).

Do you care about the level 14th to 30th level stuff?

If not then Labyrinth Lord by Goblinoid Games or Basic Fantasy is your ticket. Otherwise use the Rules Cyclopedia. Also it is even back in print. As for presentation, both the above games are better but the Rule Cyclopedia is perfectly servicable. So I would just download the LL or Basic Fantasy, if you like them go with them, otherwise stick with the RC.

Dark Dungeons. And it's even free.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/177410/Dark-Dungeons

It also gets a billion bonus points because the character used in the example of play is called "Black Leaf".

(It also has variants for other *D&D editions, btw).

Quote from: estar;1043952Do you care about the level 14th to 30th level stuff?

If not then Labyrinth Lord by Goblinoid Games or Basic Fantasy is your ticket. Otherwise use the Rules Cyclopedia. Also it is even back in print. As for presentation, both the above games are better but the Rule Cyclopedia is perfectly servicable. So I would just download the LL or Basic Fantasy, if you like them go with them, otherwise stick with the RC.

I'll second the Basic Fantasy Role Playing Game. Not from the BECMI point of view, which I will trust estar on, but because it is very high quality with lots of modules. Nice folks too. Downloads are free.

http://basicfantasy.org/downloads.html

Quote from: Luca;1043965Dark Dungeons. And it's even free.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/177410/Dark-Dungeons

It also gets a billion bonus points because the character used in the example of play is called "Black Leaf".

(It also has variants for other *D&D editions, btw).

Yes, Dark Dungeons is specifically a BECMI clone. Labyrinth Lord clones BX while BFRPG semi-clones BX.

Edit: Do use the great BFRPG modules though whatever system you use! I love Monkey Isle!

I'd go with the Rules Cyclopedia.

I think that a lot of the OSR clones were important when WotC wasn't allowing legit PDF sales of the originals, but now that you can get most of those books legally much of the need for the clones has gone away. Some of them may "improve" on the game a little, but most are pretty much just the same as the original so why not just play the original.

Quote from: finarvyn;1043996I'd go with the Rules Cyclopedia.

I think that a lot of the OSR clones were important when WotC wasn't allowing legit PDF sales of the originals, but now that you can get most of those books legally much of the need for the clones has gone away. Some of them may "improve" on the game a little, but most are pretty much just the same as the original so why not just play the original.

I agree with this, but will say that I still appreciate Labyrinth Lord because it's more concise and has a few changes I prefer (mostly the AD&D-style 1st level cleric spell and the 20th level cutoff). I'd say it's a "fourth version" of the Holmes/BX/BECMI chain. Basic Fantasy, however, is a lot closer to 3rd edition than anyone likes to admit. It's a good game for certain, but always falls flat with me...no idea why.

If someone recommended Dark Dungeons, I would specifically ask why they weren't just using the Cyclopedia; its relevance is almost nil since the Cyclopedia POD has been made available.

Thanks for all the advice :-).

Quote from: finarvyn;1043996I'd go with the Rules Cyclopedia.

I think that a lot of the OSR clones were important when WotC wasn't allowing legit PDF sales of the originals, but now that you can get most of those books legally much of the need for the clones has gone away. Some of them may "improve" on the game a little, but most are pretty much just the same as the original so why not just play the original.

Various folks think about this stuff differently so the RC presentation may not be best for that individual to learn the game.

Quote from: Brad;1043999I agree with this, but will say that I still appreciate Labyrinth Lord because it's more concise and has a few changes I prefer (mostly the AD&D-style 1st level cleric spell and the 20th level cutoff). I'd say it's a "fourth version" of the Holmes/BX/BECMI chain. Basic Fantasy, however, is a lot closer to 3rd edition than anyone likes to admit. It's a good game for certain, but always falls flat with me...no idea why.

If someone recommended Dark Dungeons, I would specifically ask why they weren't just using the Cyclopedia; its relevance is almost nil since the Cyclopedia POD has been made available.

Dark Dungeons is easier to read and look up things in than RC/BECMI. Also it incorporates several tweaks already in RC as options as core rules if one wants that. For example no level-caps. I think it also makes some rebalancing of Weapon Mastery and Warmachine and I think it adds some errata. Full rules for Immortal level play and flying ships. The skills are changed so no general skills intervene with class abilities. Now with the actual RC out in PoD it may seem not that relevant anymore. But it is free and got some good small improvements.
 
I'd say if one wants the full BECMI/RC experience (like playing with Weapon Mastery for example) it is easier to use DD than the original books/boxed sets. But if one does not care for that one might as well go for LL, BFRPG etc.

Quote from: Brad;1043999If someone recommended Dark Dungeons, I would specifically ask why they weren't just using the Cyclopedia; its relevance is almost nil since the Cyclopedia POD has been made available.

A) The question in the OP is "which retroclone is the closest to BECMI", so I answered it
B) DD is free

Also, as Teodrik says, there are some differences. All classes (including Dwarf, Elf and Halfling) are automatically assumed to have 36 levels. The Mystic class is available by default. The class tables are better, IMO (all info is right there).
There are several other tweaks, like on Weapon Mastery, or the added damage if you auto-hit by a mile which I don't seem to recall was there in the RC.
And the rules for Immortals (both how to become one and how to play one) are significantly different.

That said, I've a copy of the original RC print run and you'll have to pry it from my cold, dead hands. And if you want to get "the original experience", RC is the way to go. But DD is better organized and streamlined.

RC does have the rule (from masters set I think) that if the to-hit number needed is negative then you auto hit and add that number to damage as a positive. So hit on -5 = hit for +5 damage.

Buy the Rules Cyclopedia POD.

Why?

It is the official thing. It's not "basically D&D". It's aesthetically more pleasing than any of the clones. It's thickness gives an air of authority, as a kid, you want to feel like you're in the know and a beautiful arcane tome like the RC does that.

The game is dead-simple. I think people in this thread oversell its complexity for kids. My first game was MERP. When you have an adult guiding you, you can play almost anything.

Trust me on this.

Quote from: Nerzenjäger;1044068Buy the Rules Cyclopedia POD.

Why?

It is the official thing. It's not "basically D&D". It's aesthetically more pleasing than any of the clones. It's thickness gives an air of authority, as a kid, you want to feel like you're in the know and a beautiful arcane tome like the RC does that.

This would be my recommendation too, especially since it has tons of Mystara colour maps & info at the back. It doesn't have Immortals rules but frankly that's a good thing in my book - BECMI Immortals are on a completely different power level from mortals, which doesn't fit very well with the Iliad (or Moorcockian) type feel one would expect; it's pretty much a different game from BECM.

Quote from: Teodrik;1044039I'd say if one wants the full BECMI/RC experience (like playing with Weapon Mastery for example) it is easier to use DD than the original books/boxed sets. But if one does not care for that one might as well go for LL, BFRPG etc.

I keep hearing this, and it hasn't been my experience whatsoever. It's like the people who play OSRIC instead of AD&D...I think this whole "clarity" thing is vastly overblown. Better organized? To some degree, sure (having all the relevant class info on the same page is nice), but the stripping out of all the flavor makes it almost irrelevant.

I suppose I just don't care for clones of a game that I can actively purchase, and also have about 15 copies of anyway. I will say for the B/X game I'm running, I use these as a quick reference:

http://drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/5606/Necrotic-Gnome/subcategory/26251_28663/B-X-Essentials

but as a replacement? Nope.