Quote from: Christopher Brady;1033678??

I hate D&D?  I do?  AND NO ONE TOLD ME??  WHY AM I THE LAST ONE TO KNOW THESE THINGS???

Seriously, no.  I don't.

1: Probably trauma.

2: Seriously, Yes. You do.
You can barely post in a single D&D thread, especially O A or occasionally 2e threads without spewing vitrol. This borders on a pathological hatred of the game.

Quote from: Omega;10340811: Probably trauma.

2: Seriously, Yes. You do.
You can barely post in a single D&D thread, especially O A or occasionally 2e threads without spewing vitrol. This borders on a pathological hatred of the game.

Projecting much?

Oh well, you'll get over that after a few years.

Quote from: chirine ba kal;1033983Short form: He drastically changed the way that D & D was written and presented by TSR, and forced the company's stable of authors to actually write new material.

Long form: He was Prof. Barker's lawyer, and Phil loaned Dave Arneson the money to retain Mr. Hirsch as Dave's second lawyer. He took over Dave's series of lawsuits against TSR, and changed the focus of the suit from the unanswerable "Who created D & D" to a straightforward plagarism and copyright one. He conclusively demonstrated in court that TSR's publications, specifically 'AD&D', were mostly cut-and-paste revised editions of the original Arneson-Gygax work and not 'new works'. Dave got three million bucks, his percentages, and TSR had to learn how to write games. The actual court documents are out there on the web for your viewing pleasure. Read the pre- and post- TSR materials, very carefully, and it does show. Most gamers never noticed, as they are so fixated on game mechanics that it goes right by them.

You mean he prevented TSR from going the way of Palladium, Uncle:D?
From your description, I think we all should be grateful to the man! Though probably almost noone knew about his deed, until now;).

Quote from: AsenRG;1034246You mean he prevented TSR from going the way of Palladium, Uncle:D?
From your description, I think we all should be grateful to the man! Though probably almost noone knew about his deed, until now;).

Could be; I don;t know enough about Palladium, save that I would not do business with them either back then or now.

Nobody does, 'cause nobody reads the fine print.

Quote from: AsenRG;1034246You mean he prevented TSR from going the way of Palladium, Uncle:D?
From your description, I think we all should be grateful to the man! Though probably almost noone knew about his deed, until now;).

This is the first I've ever heard specifics like "3 million bucks". Wasn't the "secret settlement" kept pretty secret? Until now?

Quote from: The_Shadow;1034334This is the first I've ever heard specifics like "3 million bucks". Wasn't the "secret settlement" kept pretty secret? Until now?

This has been known pretty widely in the industry since 1980, as Dave was not shy about telling people that he'd won his case; it's the money that founded AGI and GAMA. Dave and Gary were directed by the court not to discuss the details of the first settlement, as part of that first settlement, but later lawsuits negated that. (All of the court documents are available in the public files, and at least two places have them up on line.) Which was, and still is, a pretty stock and standard part of settlements in this kind of case; the loser prefers not to have all their transgressions dragged out in public. Skirting the letter of the judge's stipulations became a fine art in certain circles, which is where a lot of the personal remarks about Dave Arneson by TSR people got started.

(Which is, if I may be allowed a personal aside / comment, why I don't feel the particular need to go to Gary Con and have to listen to some of the old TSR people carry on about how Dave Arneson ruined their lives. It gets old, and I don't think I want to pay for the opportunity of having my game disrupted by somebody who takes exception to my having worked for Dave and Phil. I can use that money for a lot of other things, like artwork for my book.)

Well shit!  I have NEVER heard that, and anybody stupid enough to say that in my hearing would find themselves the proud possessor of a newly-torn asshole.

I know Tim Kask didn't like Dave but that's personal.

Quote from: chirine ba kal;1034346(Which is, if I may be allowed a personal aside / comment, why I don't feel the particular need to go to Gary Con and have to listen to some of the old TSR people carry on about how Dave Arneson ruined their lives. It gets old, and I don't think I want to pay for the opportunity of having my game disrupted by somebody who takes exception to my having worked for Dave and Phil. I can use that money for a lot of other things, like artwork for my book.)

Hmmm... ...Interesting. I haven't heard that from anyone at GaryCon, including Tim Kask. I think over the last ten-twelve years, things have changed, and the old guard from TSR, that attend GaryCon are mostly focused on new ways to earning income from games, and they do enjoy having the annual TSR reunion there. Mostly what I get from that is all about the "glory days" of TSR, an era that I thought pretty much ended in 1978-79 before most of them were even employed by TSR.

Last year EPT was totally recognized as legit by the old guard, and in fact, Victor Raymond ran a most excellent EPT game that was part of the Legends of Wargaming!

Yeah, in my book "old TSR" ends about 77 as well.

Part of what's happening too is that at 2200 attendees, there are subgroups within GaryCon now.  Legends of Wargaming is rapidly becoming its own thing, which I am perfectly happy with.

Quote from: GameDaddy;1034379Hmmm... ...Interesting. I haven't heard that from anyone at GaryCon, including Tim Kask. I think over the last ten-twelve years, things have changed, and the old guard from TSR, that attend GaryCon are mostly focused on new ways to earning income from games, and they do enjoy having the annual TSR reunion there. Mostly what I get from that is all about the "glory days" of TSR, an era that I thought pretty much ended in 1978-79 before most of them were even employed by TSR.

Last year EPT was totally recognized as legit by the old guard, and in fact, Victor Raymond ran a most excellent EPT game that was part of the Legends of Wargaming!

Agreed - see the next post, actually. It's generally not the 'first-generation' people, it's the later fanboi types. And, in all due fairness, I get more crap from the stalwart Arneson fans who are out to pick fights at the convention. I want no part of that, and they tend to want to use me and my games  as their 'beachhead' at the convention.

Parasites, I don't need, thank you.

And it's wonderful that Dr. Raymond gets the chance to be a VIP; it helps him a lot.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1034389Yeah, in my book "old TSR" ends about 77 as well.

Part of what's happening too is that at 2200 attendees, there are subgroups within GaryCon now.  Legends of Wargaming is rapidly becoming its own thing, which I am perfectly happy with.

Very much so. As I mentioned, it's the recent / 'johnny-come-lately' folks who are rapidly becoming the biggest-pain-in-my-butt in gaming. I see no reason why I should pay for their annoyance, or haul all my stuff out to any convention so they have a big event to sit around at my game table and pontificate from. As I've mentioned elsewhere, these are also the people who routinely fail to deliver load-in / load-out help, hotel rooms, gas money, and food. Now that I'm rid of The Boyfriend's bottomless gullet, and making a very nice salary, I might take the show back out on the road - but for my own personal pleasure, and in the full knowledge that I'm going to be doing it all by myself.

"Stuff 'em all!" is my mantra, these days. Nobody in the gaming hobby or industry has anything I want, so they're going to really have to work at it to get my interest or support. I've been severing a lot of my connections over the past couple of years, and it's gotten nice and quiet hereabouts as a result. Doing the Internet gaming and podcasts will be a lot less work, reach a much wider audience, and be a lot more fun for me to do. I have the horsepower now to do literally anything I want to, and I'm going to.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1034376Well shit!  I have NEVER heard that, and anybody stupid enough to say that in my hearing would find themselves the proud possessor of a newly-torn asshole.

I know Tim Kask didn't like Dave but that's personal.

Yep. It was pretty funny watching people talk to me, then find out who I was, and then try to figure out if they'd said anything offensive. I was more amused then anything else.

Tim's entitled to his opinions. I may not agree with them, but I'd defend his right to them any time.

Quote from: chirine ba kal;1034428"Stuff 'em all!" is my mantra, these days..

As Terry Pratchett's Sir Samuel Vimes said, "Arseholes to the lot of 'em, says I."

And now, a little song and dance number:

[video=youtube;3DlZdZYLCfU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DlZdZYLCfU[/youtube]

Quote from: chirine ba kal;1033983Short form: He drastically changed the way that D & D was written and presented by TSR, and forced the company's stable of authors to actually write new material.

Long form: He was Prof. Barker's lawyer, and Phil loaned Dave Arneson the money to retain Mr. Hirsch as Dave's second lawyer. He took over Dave's series of lawsuits against TSR, and changed the focus of the suit from the unanswerable "Who created D & D" to a straightforward plagarism and copyright one. He conclusively demonstrated in court that TSR's publications, specifically 'AD&D', were mostly cut-and-paste revised editions of the original Arneson-Gygax work and not 'new works'. Dave got three million bucks, his percentages, and TSR had to learn how to write games. The actual court documents are out there on the web for your viewing pleasure. Read the pre- and post- TSR materials, very carefully, and it does show. Most gamers never noticed, as they are so fixated on game mechanics that it goes right by them.

Absolutely fascinating!

Quote from: chirine ba kal;1034428"Stuff 'em all!" is my mantra, these days. Nobody in the gaming hobby or industry has anything I want, so they're going to really have to work at it to get my interest or support. I've been severing a lot of my connections over the past couple of years, and it's gotten nice and quiet hereabouts as a result. Doing the Internet gaming and podcasts will be a lot less work, reach a much wider audience, and be a lot more fun for me to do. I have the horsepower now to do literally anything I want to, and I'm going to.

That's good to hear!

Maybe we'll have you on my upcoming Youtube show sometime.