Complementing Alexander post:

- Actor stance: What's best for me as the character? "I'm cornered and badly hurt, so my best bet is retreat, or I'll risk dying here."

- Author: What's best for my character from the POV of genre cliches or just coolness? "I'm cornered and badly hurt, so my best bet is retreating. BUT what usually happens in movies of this genre is heroes refusing to give up against all odds, giving a bravado speech and going in with flair against all odds. So Im doing that."

- Director: What's best for the story as a whole? "I'm cornered and badly hurt. It would be really cool if at this right moment it started to rain so we made this scene of my char all soaked and bleeding giving his last speech on the mud, while the enemies surround him slowly, and slowly until the scene blacks out and only his scream is heard.

"That was beautiful John! I'm adding to the scene: Your younger brother actually saw all that hiding from a bush nearby and now he wants revenge on your killers."

Quote from: Itachi;1079332Complementing Alexander post:

- Actor stance: What's best for me as the character? "I'm cornered and badly hurt, so my best bet is retreat, or I'll risk dying here."

- Author: What's best for my character from the POV of genre cliches or just coolness? "I'm cornered and badly hurt, so my best bet is retreating. BUT what usually happens in movies of this genre is heroes refusing to give up against all odds, giving a bravado speech and going in with flair against all odds. So Im doing that."

- Director: What's best for the story as a whole? "I'm cornered and badly hurt. It would be really cool if at this right moment it started to rain so we made this scene of my char all soaked and bleeding giving his last speech on the mud, while the enemies surround him slowly, and slowly until the scene blacks out and only his scream is heard.

"That was beautiful John! I'm adding to the scene: Your younger brother actually saw all that hiding from a bush nearby and now he wants revenge on your killers."

What I think of actor stance is "from POV of PC" and what I think of as author stance is "from POV of third party". Personally I could be in actor stance, fully immersed, and refusing to give up against all odds, giving a bravado speech and going in with flair against all odds - if that's what my character would do.

S'mon , that's also fine by me, if "going in against all odds" was something you or your character would naturally do.

Bankuei has a nice 'n quick explanation  here

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1079265Got it in one.  It's not.

I'd agree that it's not a game of chance, but I'd say there's still a game in there. There's still let's-pretend in it. So it depends on the definition of game.

Quote from: Tanin Wulf;1079346I'd agree that it's not a game of chance, but I'd say there's still a game in there. There's still let's-pretend in it. So it depends on the definition of game.

It's a form of 'Mother May I' so if you say that's a game, then I guess it is.

Quote from: Itachi;1079332Complementing Alexander post:

- Actor stance: What's best for me as the character? "I'm cornered and badly hurt, so my best bet is retreat, or I'll risk dying here."

- Author: What's best for my character from the POV of genre cliches or just coolness? "I'm cornered and badly hurt, so my best bet is retreating. BUT what usually happens in movies of this genre is heroes refusing to give up against all odds, giving a bravado speech and going in with flair against all odds. So Im doing that."

- Director: What's best for the story as a whole? "I'm cornered and badly hurt. It would be really cool if at this right moment it started to rain so we made this scene of my char all soaked and bleeding giving his last speech on the mud, while the enemies surround him slowly, and slowly until the scene blacks out and only his scream is heard.

"That was beautiful John! I'm adding to the scene: Your younger brother actually saw all that hiding from a bush nearby and now he wants revenge on your killers."

That Director Stance example makes me...... Uneasy.

Quote from: Razor 007;1079376That Director Stance example makes me...... Uneasy.

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1078708No. Do not take the local hive mind as gospel. "Role Playing Game"...you're playing a role...in a game....it's a Role Playing Game...

It's that simple. The rest is overly-wrought, Internet-speed "debate" collected to protect the local darlings from things they feel threaten their world.

I'd respectfully disagree. There's a point at which one activity is so different from another that it becomes a different activity. It's about clarity of language.

Quote from: Dan Davenport;1079442I'd respectfully disagree. There's a point at which one activity is so different from another that it becomes a different activity. It's about clarity of language.

Exactly. Its like where some nuts want to broaden the definition of something to the point it is practically "everything on earth" or IS "Everything on Earth.". What is role playing? Watching grass grow! Pretty clouds! Reading a book! "What is an RPG? What is role playing? Watching grass grow! Pretty clouds! Reading a book!

ad nausium. And I've actually seen people claim these things.

At that point the definition or any sane sort of conversation with that person becomes meaningless.

If "playing a role in a game" is a RPG, then LARPS, video games and many boardgames are now RPGs.

But they're not. Each is its own thing. Not "better or worse", but simply their own thing.

That's why we can break down games into Narrative Story Games vs. Traditional Roleplaying Games. And everyone is 1000% welcome to chitchat about every Narrative Story Game in the Other Games forum.

Amazing how some people want the definitions around RPGing to be confused, but the LARP community is really clear what its about. Same with video game and board game communities.

Quote from: Dan Davenport;1079442I'd respectfully disagree. There's a point at which one activity is so different from another that it becomes a different activity. It's about clarity of language.

Funny that "clarity of language" is used as a defense yet is the very tactic SJWs use: changing the narrative and division. I play Blades in the Dark, FFG Star Wars, Invisible Sun, Numenera, Dusk City Outlaws and GeneSys, all of which are Role Playing Games. It's staggeringly stupid to say they are otherwise, yet, many do.

I made a blogpost a while back on the problem of defining common terminology in such theoretical discussions. The first part of that post applies here:
http://www.knightsoftheblacklily.com/2018/05/rpg-theory-with-rigor-part-2/

The tl;dnr is that such definitions of common terminology represent a clustering problem. We all know that D&D is an RPG (except John Wick, of course). But is Fiasco a RPG? It depends where you draw the line and we'll never be able to agree on where to draw the line. And there will always be fringe cases. So, it's pointless to go for that ONE definition that will kill all others. It's enough if we roughly understand what the other is saying and if necessary we can ask for clarification in fringe cases.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1079446If "playing a role in a game" is a RPG, then LARPS, video games and many boardgames are now RPGs.

...so Live Action Role Playing Games (commonly abbreviated as LARP) isn't a Role Playing Game?

I mean... it's in the name. They're usually classed as a sub-type of RPGs, just like Tabletop RPGs are a sub-type of the super category of RPGs. As are video game RPGs. They're literally RPGs.

Was the use of RPG here just sloppy short hand for pen-and-paper RPGs, like the name of the forum?

Quote from: Tanin Wulf;1079532...so Live Action Role Playing Games (commonly abbreviated as LARP) isn't a Role Playing Game?

I mean... it's in the name. They're usually classed as a sub-type of RPGs, just like Tabletop RPGs are a sub-type of the super category of RPGs. As are video game RPGs. They're literally RPGs.

Was the use of RPG here just sloppy short hand for pen-and-paper RPGs, like the name of the forum?

That's my take too. "RPG" is any game where you play a role in a fictional world or story, and this can take many forms: electronic, tabletop, live-action, CYOA, etc.

Quote from: Itachi;1079545That's my take too. "RPG" is any game where you play a role in a fictional world or story, and this can take many forms: electronic, tabletop, live-action, CYOA, etc.

And you've just expanded the term into "everything on earth" and made it a totally useless term.

Playing in a LARP is role playing. Acting in a movie is not. Reading a book, even a COYA is not.