Quote from: Monero on July 17, 2024, 06:19:31 PM4e is the best combat system in ttrpgs and it's not particularly close. And it's by far the best edition of DnD, grognards be damned.

Someone who likes, what they like.  Popularity, be damned!!!

Quote from: Slambo on July 17, 2024, 07:49:39 PMFor me i think i like Dungeon Crawl Classic's combat most but that might just be because i love the DCC fighter.

Very interesting outcomes, if the wizard / magic user rolls high.  DCC is unique.

Quote from: Man at Arms on July 18, 2024, 12:18:15 AM

Quote from: Slambo on July 17, 2024, 07:49:39 PMFor me i think i like Dungeon Crawl Classic's combat most but that might just be because i love the DCC fighter.

Very interesting outcomes, if the wizard / magic user rolls high.  DCC is unique.

Quote from: Man at Arms on July 18, 2024, 12:18:15 AM

Quote from: Slambo on July 17, 2024, 07:49:39 PMFor me i think i like Dungeon Crawl Classic's combat most but that might just be because i love the DCC fighter.

Very interesting outcomes, if the wizard / magic user rolls high.  DCC is unique.

I only got into DCC. Are there mech or vehicle rules in one of the spin offs?

D&D 4e was really great for combat.

The system was improved for 4e's Gamma World which is really a total blast to play - once the GM removes the silly aspects (which is easy).

Though, I've had great fun running combats in pretty much every RPG that I've played long term...which are almost all rules-light-ish.

I would love to know which RPG's have separate rules for hand-to-hand versus gun battles.

Those are not the same things.  Also, being good at one ought to have no benefit to the other. 

Quote from: Ratman_tf on July 18, 2024, 12:28:25 AM

Quote from: Man at Arms on July 18, 2024, 12:18:15 AM

Quote from: Slambo on July 17, 2024, 07:49:39 PMFor me i think i like Dungeon Crawl Classic's combat most but that might just be because i love the DCC fighter.

Very interesting outcomes, if the wizard / magic user rolls high.  DCC is unique.

Quote from: Man at Arms on July 18, 2024, 12:18:15 AM

Quote from: Slambo on July 17, 2024, 07:49:39 PMFor me i think i like Dungeon Crawl Classic's combat most but that might just be because i love the DCC fighter.

Very interesting outcomes, if the wizard / magic user rolls high.  DCC is unique.

I only got into DCC. Are there mech or vehicle rules in one of the spin offs?

I also, only got into the core DCC rulebook.  Perhaps one of the spinoffs, may have what you are looking for?

For me, the best combat system is one in which it takes no more time to resolve at the table than it would take your character to do it in the game world. Old school D&D as well as modern rules-light games accomplish this with a single d20 to see if your attack is effective followed by a single roll for damage, with relatively few modifiers. I've played other systems. All were more complex, but none were more fun or satisfying.

Thinking about it, I might say The Palladium Fantasy Roleplaying Game first edition.  It's really good. It's fun.  The weapons are different without being too complex.  Each class has its own strengths and weaknesses.  Numbers of attacks, dodge and parry bonuses don't get inflated out of control.  It's not the bloated mess that later games turned into while losing much of what made it cool.

Some of my favorite combats were with TFT--"GURPS V0" if you will. I remember back in Jr. High having Melee and Wizard that we'd break out in Shop class for a few rounds of combat.

Fast moving, fun, deadly, easy to learn.  Having hex maps and counters was great.  No complicated tables or anything fancy.

I've been looking through both my old TFT stuff and the stuff I got a few years back from SJGames (don't really care for the company now, but some good quality stuff in those Kickstarters a few years back).  Might have to dust it off and start playing it.

Quote from: weirdguy564 on July 18, 2024, 11:55:12 AMI would love to know which RPG's have separate rules for hand-to-hand versus gun battles.

Those are not the same things.  Also, being good at one ought to have no benefit to the other. 

This is one of the key reasons I love Friday Night Firefight.  The later martial arts additions were over the top but the original combined gun fights with melee action well.

Honestly, it depends on what you are looking for.  If you see combat as just one pillar of the three (combat, exploration, interaction), then the "best" combat system will be one that is fast, smooth, and doesn't take up more than one-third of your time.  The OD&D or B/X combat, where everything is abstracted into a few modifiers and hit points is hard to beat in this case.  It lacks granularity, but that's a feature if you want combat to be fast.

On the other hand, if want combat to be a focal point of the game, then you are going to want much more granularity.  Some folks have brought up 4e, and I can see why.  It certainly is granular with lots of options.  It falls flat on a few other features, though (where the mechanics really take precedence over the in-world fiction).  I'd actually say something like Battletech has an excellent combat structure, but now you are getting into the gray area between RPGs and Wargames.

So, I'd say the answer is... it depends on what you want out of combat.

Quote from: David Johansen on July 18, 2024, 07:15:28 PMThinking about it, I might say The Palladium Fantasy Roleplaying Game first edition.  It's really good. It's fun.  The weapons are different without being too complex.  Each class has its own strengths and weaknesses.  Numbers of attacks, dodge and parry bonuses don't get inflated out of control.  It's not the bloated mess that later games turned into while losing much of what made it cool.

Amen, brother.

Palladium 1st edition is indeed a great game without the bloat/complexity of the later games.

I'd recommend PF 1st Ed as everyone's first Palladium game.

Quote from: Trond on July 17, 2024, 01:52:10 PMBy "best" I think I would emphasize "most fun" or "most likely to be repeated". Only people who have tried at least a few different systems need apply

Well, those are two separate questions, right? "Most likely to be repeated" doesn't necessarily mean it's the "most fun," it just means it's the one you'd run most of the time.

So I'll answer them separately, because I think it matters. The MOST FUN I've ever had playing combat is Starfleet Battles. The question asks "game" so this counts as far as I'm concerned. If I am not going to be a pedantic ass, and assume you mean RPG (which you are, obviously) then I'd have to go with HERO 4th through the lens of Fantasy HERO. Played a campaign of that and the combats were insanely satisfying, albeit slow as molasses. It felt like player decisions had a direct effect on outcomes, vs. something like D&D where you essentially just roll a die and see if you hit. I also think Amber is exceptionally fun because the more you put into it, the more you get out. If you want to just say, "I kill the dude," because you do not like combat in RPGs, so be it. If you want to go into insane detail and explain every single action in a duel with sabres, have at it. Each player has complete control over how interesting and descriptive they want combat to be.

For the most repeatable question, obviously something like B/X or AD&D since it's pretty much the one system almost every knows enough to at least fake it. You're gonna probably roll a d20 and then the DM tells you if you hit, then you roll another die to see how much damage you do. It is simple and straighforward, and thus extremely serviceable. You can add Arms Law like we used to do if you want crits and stuff, add parrying and dodges (Palladium), whatever. It's a great basis that can be hammered into different forms based on your needs.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on July 19, 2024, 12:09:17 PMHonestly, it depends on what you are looking for.  If you see combat as just one pillar of the three (combat, exploration, interaction), then the "best" combat system will be one that is fast, smooth, and doesn't take up more than one-third of your time.  The OD&D or B/X combat, where everything is abstracted into a few modifiers and hit points is hard to beat in this case.  It lacks granularity, but that's a feature if you want combat to be fast.

When using an involved tactical system, that doesn't necessarily mean that combat takes up most of the time. One can just have fewer combats. Also, combats can be decisive and resolve in just a few rounds instead of taking many rounds of attrition. Say, my HERO System and Savage Worlds games have tended to be only one-third combat.

Quote from: jhkim on July 19, 2024, 07:32:09 PM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on July 19, 2024, 12:09:17 PMHonestly, it depends on what you are looking for.  If you see combat as just one pillar of the three (combat, exploration, interaction), then the "best" combat system will be one that is fast, smooth, and doesn't take up more than one-third of your time.  The OD&D or B/X combat, where everything is abstracted into a few modifiers and hit points is hard to beat in this case.  It lacks granularity, but that's a feature if you want combat to be fast.

When using an involved tactical system, that doesn't necessarily mean that combat takes up most of the time. One can just have fewer combats. Also, combats can be decisive and resolve in just a few rounds instead of taking many rounds of attrition. Say, my HERO System and Savage Worlds games have tended to be only one-third combat.

First of all, the number of combats has nothing to do with the length of combats.  If one-third of your game is combat (i.e., you have one combat encounter for every exploration portion and social encounter), and your combats take longer than the social interaction or exploration, then you will spend more than a third of your time on combat, no matter how few you have.  The only way to balance time will be to unbalance numbers of encounters.

Second of all, very few combat systems are highly granular and extremely deadly (dead in less than 3 rounds).  I'm sure some exist, but even if a granular system resolves in three rounds, those rounds tend to be long (because there are more decisions to be made, more things to keep track of, etc.).  You list Savage Worlds as an example of... what exactly?  A granular game (which it's not)?  Fast resolving (it depends on the tiers... lots of bennies and high toughness means "whiff, whiff, whiff, dice explode kill!)?  So I'm not sure how you think SW is relevant to this discussion.