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Pen & Paper Roleplaying Central => Pen and Paper Roleplaying Games (RPGs) Discussion => Topic started by: Shawn Driscoll on April 22, 2016, 02:42:59 AM

Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: Shawn Driscoll on April 22, 2016, 02:42:59 AM
If you had to choose one to get rid of in an RPG session, would you choose the d20 die or would you choose the role-play?
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: Omega on April 22, 2016, 02:45:55 AM
Uh... what the hell?
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: dragoner on April 22, 2016, 02:54:19 AM
Quote from: Omega;893529Uh... what the hell?

I think the drugs have kicked in.
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: Ravenswing on April 22, 2016, 03:10:11 AM
Dude, either you need to get some more sleep, or you need to lay off the drugs.  (The only other possibility that comes to mind at 3 AM involves perversions concerning d20s I really don't want to contemplate.)
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: Rincewind1 on April 22, 2016, 03:54:47 AM
I assume this is a tongue-in-cheek question whether, if you absolutely had to, you'd rather get rid of mechanics or role playing.

D20 die, every time.
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: Catelf on April 22, 2016, 04:27:24 AM
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;893528If you had to choose one to get rid of in an RPG session, would you choose the d20 die or would you choose the role-play?

Why are you assuming all rpgs use a D20 at all?
Or dice at all?

And where goes the limit for roleplaying?
If one just play classes and not characters, is that still roleplaying?

If I turn a WtA - session into a dungeouncrawl in the Umbra against the wyrm, and the players play "characters" that is barely more than classes like mage, bard and warrior with some tribal-derived quirks, then i'm practically playing an rpg without D20s but also without any notable amount of roleplaying.
Sure, it is barely more than a wargame, but it still has the known framework of an rpg.
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: Bren on April 22, 2016, 12:23:28 PM
Tunnels & Trolls, In the Labyrinth, GURPS, WEG Star Wars,  Barbarians of Lemuria, Honor+Intrigue....
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: daniel_ream on April 22, 2016, 01:09:04 PM
The D20.  There's a lot of ways to add randomness and uncertainty to the evolving narrative, and the industry is stuck in a dice mechanics rut.

Fate of the Norns and Everway are great examples of how to use not-dice in an RPG.
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: ZWEIHÄNDER on April 22, 2016, 01:16:29 PM
Role-play comes first, and the dice frame success or failure of choices. Dice aren't essential if the mechanics are able to properly reflect the binary outcomes of a die roll (nuance aside).

I'd toss out the dice.
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: Saurondor on April 22, 2016, 01:21:47 PM
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;893528If you had to choose one to get rid of in an RPG session, would you choose the d20 die or would you choose the role-play?

Role-playing is the purpose,  the d20 is just the means. If you're sitting at a table what would you get rid of, the snack or the hunger? You can satisfy your hunger with other things aside from snacks, but without hunger the snack serves no purpose.
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: dragoner on April 22, 2016, 01:29:43 PM
Quote from: Saurondor;893665Role-playing is the purpose,  the d20 is just the means. If you're sitting at a table what would you get rid of, the snack or the hunger? You can satisfy your hunger with other things aside from snacks, but without hunger the snack serves no purpose.

The dice all also meaningless in their own way, he could be talking role-playing mechanics, which I'd get rid of. I don't need the rules to tell me how to role-play, esp if it's going to be like some youtuber.
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: ArtemisAlpha on April 22, 2016, 03:00:12 PM
Depends on the day. I've had a ton of fun playing very rules light RPGs. Tomorrow I'm playing in a modern horror campaign that rarely touches dice. But, the day after I'm playing in an ongoing Star Wars: Imperial Assault campaign play game - which, while a board game, is pretty much what playing without the role-play looks like in my mind.
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: AsenRG on April 24, 2016, 07:38:10 AM
Easily the d20 die, especially since it's not used in any of the games I'm playing now (especially since I stuck the Godbound powers mechanics on top of a different die mechanic).
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: DavetheLost on April 24, 2016, 09:14:03 AM
Nuke the d20 from orbit! Cleanse it with fire!

The last five games I have run did not use d20s at all. Most of the games I am considering using do not use the d20 at all either.

As for games that do not use dice at all, add Castle Falkenstein, gentlemen do not play with dice, and Underworld which uses subway tokens and spare change.
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: Armchair Gamer on April 24, 2016, 11:03:32 AM
Quote from: Bren;893638Tunnels & Trolls, In the Labyrinth, GURPS, WEG Star Wars,  Barbarians of Lemuria, Honor+Intrigue....

  ... HERO System, BESM, LUG/Decipher Treks,  MERP, Decipher LotR and The One Ring, most forms of BRP, GUMSHOE, FUDGE and FATE, Prince Valiant, Castle Falkenstein, the SAGA Rules System ...

    And those are just the ones I have in my apartment or on my hard drive. :D
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: David Johansen on April 24, 2016, 05:15:58 PM
Both, I can enjoy a wargame on the tactical level without d20s just fine.
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: Omega on April 24, 2016, 10:00:01 PM
Due to scarcity of polyhedrals. Apparently the original BX D&D sessions in Japan that would become Lodoss War were played with d6s instead.

Didnt the original D&D box come with numbered counters instead of dice?
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: Spinachcat on April 24, 2016, 10:19:57 PM
I love how we are trying to figure out WTF is Shaun's newest Rorschach test thread creation!
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: Bren on April 25, 2016, 12:02:08 AM
Quote from: Omega;894171Didnt the original D&D box come with numbered counters instead of dice?
No.

Quote from: Spinachcat;894174I love how we are trying to figure out WTF is Shaun's newest Rorschach test thread creation!
Reminds me of this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MiqPQ1dVg4).
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: Shawn Driscoll on April 25, 2016, 03:20:33 AM
Quote from: DavetheLost;894017Nuke the d20 from orbit! Cleanse it with fire!
Ha! Almost lost my soda there.
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: TristramEvans on April 25, 2016, 10:20:44 AM
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;893528If you had to choose one to get rid of in an RPG session, would you choose the d20 die or would you choose the role-play?

You know how they say there's no such thing as a stupid question?

They lied.
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: Shawn Driscoll on April 25, 2016, 10:29:08 AM
Quote from: TristramEvans;894260You know how they say there's no such thing as a stupid question?

They lied.
You're such a pussy. You know you'll suck no matter how you answer. Yes, this question was probably aimed at your crap play style and how no one gives a rat's Patreon about you.
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: jeff37923 on April 25, 2016, 11:58:53 AM
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;893528If you had to choose one to get rid of in an RPG session, would you choose the d20 die or would you choose the role-play?

Well, since to play a role-playing game you should role-play by definition, I would have to say the d20.

(You do understand that most versions of Traveller do not use the d20, don't you?)
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: jeff37923 on April 25, 2016, 11:59:58 AM
Quote from: TristramEvans;894260You know how they say there's no such thing as a stupid question?

They lied.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;894263You're such a pussy. You know you'll suck no matter how you answer. Yes, this question was probably aimed at your crap play style and how no one gives a rat's Patreon about you.

I think a nerve has been struck!
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: TristramEvans on April 25, 2016, 03:17:11 PM
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;894263You're such a pussy. You know you'll suck no matter how you answer. Yes, this question was probably aimed at your crap play style and how no one gives a rat's Patreon about you.

Giggle

Insert Willy Wonka meme here
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: TristramEvans on April 25, 2016, 03:18:16 PM
Quote from: jeff37923;894278I think a nerve has been struck!

He'll be cryin himself ta sleep tonight on his huuge pillow
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: PaladinCA on April 25, 2016, 03:34:59 PM
I've been at games that were actually played without either. LOL
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: Caesar Slaad on April 25, 2016, 09:27:43 PM
https://youtu.be/MpmGXeAtWUw?t=1m30s
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: Crabbyapples on April 25, 2016, 09:34:05 PM
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;893528If you had to choose one to get rid of in an RPG session, would you choose the d20 die or would you choose the role-play?

You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: those with d20 dice and those who roleplay. You dig.
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: Gronan of Simmerya on April 25, 2016, 09:51:49 PM
I would choose to get rid of asinine hypothetical questions.
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: crkrueger on April 28, 2016, 03:16:10 AM
This is a strange question to me because you can bring roleplay nearly to anything.  If you want you can choose to play chess differently depending on whether your King is William the Conqueror (uses castles), Ghenghis Khan (uses horses) or Cromwell (uses peasants and attacks Bishops first) :p.

I can play D&D similar to how I might play random computer dungeoncrawl game X, or I can roleplay while playing.  The key to a RPG is the RP and the G.  Without the G, you're back to playing Cowboys and Indians, or Batman and Robin or whatever and no one ever wins because the argument always comes back to "Yes I did, No you didn't."  Even LARPs have some form of resolving actions and determining the outcome of a contest between two PCs.

Designers give you the game, GM's give you the setting, players bring the roleplay of their characters.  If you're lucky, you've got a game that lets you roleplay without getting in the way mechanically and a GM that lets your character's choices have meaning.

If you gave me a choice between an experience that was pure roleplay with no game at all, and a game that was no roleplay, it doesn't matter to me at all because I could do either one once in a while in between regular RPG sessions. :D
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: Omega on April 28, 2016, 04:17:24 AM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;894448I would choose to get rid of asinine hypothetical questions.

But then Shawn would vanish in a puff of logic.
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: Ravenswing on April 28, 2016, 07:15:21 AM
Quote from: CRKrueger;894487(snip)
Aw, man, you're answering in a serious fashion!
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: daniel_ream on April 28, 2016, 01:16:27 PM
Quote from: Ravenswing;894507Aw, man, you're answering in a serious fashion!

Since that option is more conducive to an interesting discussion than crotchety shitposting....

Yeah, never mind.
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: Xuc Xac on April 28, 2016, 03:33:10 PM
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;893528If you had to choose one to get rid of in an RPG session, would you choose the d20 die or would you choose the role-play?

If you went out to dinner at a Chinese restaurant, would you rather do without forks or food?
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: Orphan81 on April 28, 2016, 03:40:38 PM
If you were forced to spend an evening with Shawn Driscoll, would you rather get Shit faced drunk, or meet his mom?
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: jeff37923 on April 28, 2016, 04:03:21 PM
Quote from: Orphan81;894585If you were forced to spend an evening with Shawn Driscoll, would you rather get Shit faced drunk, or meet his mom?

Shit faced drunk.
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: dragoner on April 28, 2016, 04:16:11 PM
Quote from: Orphan81;894585If you were forced to spend an evening with Shawn Driscoll, would you rather ...

... die, or choke a bitch like Vader?

(http://cdn.ebaumsworld.com/picture/Holy_Demon/vaderchoke.jpg)
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: Bren on April 28, 2016, 08:58:49 PM
Quote from: Xúc xắc;894584If you went out to dinner at a Chinese restaurant, would you rather do without forks or food?
Nice parallel to the original "dichotomy." :cool:
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: Ravenswing on April 29, 2016, 01:01:21 AM
Quote from: daniel_ream;894555Since that option is more conducive to an interesting discussion than crotchety shitposting....

Yeah, never mind.
Eh, there are lots of threads where interesting discussions take place, without needing to dress a pig up in a ballgown.
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: TristramEvans on April 29, 2016, 01:19:54 AM
Quote from: Ravenswing;894680Eh, there are lots of threads where interesting discussions take place, without needing to dress a pig up in a ballgown.

I think that one wins the thread
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: Bren on April 29, 2016, 08:23:05 AM
Seconded.
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: AsenRG on May 01, 2016, 11:01:35 AM
Thirded.
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: Ravenswing on May 02, 2016, 04:06:44 AM
Aw, you guys ...
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: RPGPundit on May 06, 2016, 03:23:09 AM
The D20, obviously.
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: Rincewind1 on May 06, 2016, 04:31:08 AM
Quote from: Orphan81;894585If you were forced to spend an evening with Shawn Driscoll, would you rather get Shit faced drunk, or meet his mom?

I'd do both, if you know what I mean.
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: Sable Wyvern on May 06, 2016, 05:59:26 AM
Quote from: TristramEvans;894260You know how they say there's no such thing as a stupid question?

They lied.

The correct rule is: There are no stupid questions, only stupid people.
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: Krimson on May 15, 2016, 02:42:28 PM
Of course it depends on the type of game. If you have a highly lethal campaign where you are making a new character every session or so then why even bother to RP?
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: Simlasa on May 15, 2016, 03:38:10 PM
Quote from: Krimson;897964If you have a highly lethal campaign where you are making a new character every session or so then why even bother to RP?
Actually, I'll roleplay with wilder abandon... more extreme personalities and accents that I might not be interested in maintaining over longer lived PCs.
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: Krimson on May 16, 2016, 10:17:46 AM
Quote from: Simlasa;897966Actually, I'll roleplay with wilder abandon... more extreme personalities and accents that I might not be interested in maintaining over longer lived PCs.

That's not really roleplaying though. That sounds more like using tropes. Sure, I can differentiate Bob the Fighter II, II and IV by adopting extreme personalities and basically parody RPing, but in combat heavy games I've noticed that people stop referring to characters as characters and start referring to them as builds. It makes sense, because in a way you are no longer RPing, you are just playing a combat simulation. If I play Advanced Squad Leader I'm not going to start talking in funny voices for my little counters. :D
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: Simlasa on May 16, 2016, 10:59:41 AM
Quote from: Krimson;898114That's not really roleplaying though. That sounds more like using tropes.
What's wrong with using tropes? How is that not roleplaying?
QuoteSure, I can differentiate Bob the Fighter II, II and IV by adopting extreme personalities and basically parody RPing, but in combat heavy games I've noticed that people stop referring to characters as characters and start referring to them as builds.
I don't do 'builds'.
QuoteIf I play Advanced Squad Leader I'm not going to start talking in funny voices for my little counters. :D
Oh, I totally would... and do, when I play wargames.
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: Krimson on May 16, 2016, 11:04:30 AM
Quote from: Simlasa;898122What's wrong with using tropes? How is that not roleplaying?

I use tropes too, but they end up being parody a lot of the time. RPing a cookie cutout is fun, but I wouldn't hold out for any depth. Most tropers I find can only handle RP that is light and fluffy, which is fine if that's your taste in RP. All too many times though I've seen such scenarios degrading into jokes and the game comes to a halt. If you had bypassed RP altogether, you could still play the game and joke around and get scenarios done without the added weight of characterization which may or may not be taken seriously, probably the latter.
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: Simlasa on May 16, 2016, 11:33:05 AM
Quote from: Krimson;898124I use tropes too, but they end up being parody a lot of the time.
Why do you assume I would do the same? Tropes can just be quick hooks to hang more complex portrayals on.
QuoteMost tropers I find can only handle RP that is light and fluffy, which is fine if that's your taste in RP.
Not my taste at all... and 'tropers'? Is that a thing?
Really, I think you're assuming a LOT.
I've generally got no interest in playing comedy characters. What I'm suggesting is that, given shorter PC lifespans, I find myself more willing to take on extreme characters who I don't personally like all that much... such as playing cowards, cretins, zealots... because I will only have to live in their skin for a limited time.
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: RPGPundit on May 20, 2016, 12:58:07 AM
Quote from: Simlasa;897966Actually, I'll roleplay with wilder abandon... more extreme personalities and accents that I might not be interested in maintaining over longer lived PCs.

This is the right answer. You work harder to play the character, trying to get more out of them while they're around. And of course, when you  have a character that ends up surviving and doing well, it makes them all the more sophisticated as they evolve.
Title: Which can you play without (a d20 or role-play)?
Post by: Shawn Driscoll on May 20, 2016, 06:23:01 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit;898869This is the right answer. You work harder to play the character, trying to get more out of them while they're around. And of course, when you have a character that ends up surviving and doing well, it makes them all the more sophisticated as they evolve.
That's been my experience. Other role-players at the table will miss such characters more when they do leave a campaign.