Quote from: Sacrosanct;709235All of the conversions for modules like the Slavers' series, the Caves of Chaos, Isle of dread, the S series modules, etc.

Also, I don't recall WoTC saying that you can buy a 5e module and run it in any edition without any conversion on your part, or that every 5e product would include stats for every prior edition inside it.

Um...Those are  modules converted to Next.. Not conversion rules.

Quote from: Omega;709245Um...Those are  modules converted to Next.. Not conversion rules.

There was never any implication that WoTC promised that they would have full conversion rules for every edition prior to Next.  So I'm still not seeing where this "liar" thing is coming from.

And besides.  As someone who has spent a lot of time playing Next, with almost exclusively AD&D materials, converting to Next is very easy.  Heck, in one of my write ups of actual play I did, we even had an AD&D 1e cleric in the group of 5e PCs and it still worked with only converting saving throws, THAC0, and ability modifier values and that was it.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;709251There was never any implication that WoTC promised that they would have full conversion rules for every edition prior to Next.  So I'm still not seeing where this "liar" thing is coming from.

And besides.  As someone who has spent a lot of time playing Next, with almost exclusively AD&D materials, converting to Next is very easy.  Heck, in one of my write ups of actual play I did, we even had an AD&D 1e cleric in the group of 5e PCs and it still worked with only converting saving throws, THAC0, and ability modifier values and that was it.

So you just made up a home grown conversion.

Then why did you say it had a conversion system if it doesnt? Or do you mean it provides conversions for monsters and a few modules but no actual system?

Quote from: Sacrosanct;709229In the Next playtest download, they went to extensive lengths to include AD&D conversion stats.  I find your post to be extremely uncharitable.

Quote from: Omega;709292So you just made up a home grown conversion.

Then why did you say it had a conversion system if it doesnt? Or do you mean it provides conversions for monsters and a few modules but no actual system?

That's what I said.  There hasn't been anything, to my knowledge, of WotC promising that they would have rules to convert every prior edition to 5e.  Which is the original post I was responding to.  And they did go to great lengths to convert everything you need from the AD&D most popular modules to be playable in 5e.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;709251There was never any implication that WoTC promised that they would have full conversion rules for every edition prior to Next.  So I'm still not seeing where this "liar" thing is coming from.

And besides.  As someone who has spent a lot of time playing Next, with almost exclusively AD&D materials, converting to Next is very easy.  Heck, in one of my write ups of actual play I did, we even had an AD&D 1e cleric in the group of 5e PCs and it still worked with only converting saving throws, THAC0, and ability modifier values and that was it.

Yes they did, in the original announcement by WoTC, it was suppose to be a universal D&D system, usable by anyone using any previous incarnation from AD&D1E up to NEXT, so why tout it if it's not.  I see they put entire stat write ups for every iteration from 3.5, 4E & NEXT on their website for the modules but nothing for AD&D1st or 2nd editions, which to me is a blatant lie so don't tell me they didn't lie.  I know better.  IMO they are shooting themselves in the ASS again!  They have the perfect oppritunity to capitalize on sales to AD&D'ers by including conversion stats in the NEXT modules or as downloads as extra sales to those who may not invest in NEXT in the first place, namely ME and other like me.

Quote from: flyingcircus;709506Yes they did, in the original announcement by WoTC, it was suppose to be a universal D&D system, usable by anyone using any previous incarnation from AD&D1E up to NEXT, so why tout it if it's not.

Where?  I don't recall anything of the sort.  In fact, that sounds like a rather silly thing to say, since the ruleset for all the previous editions of D&D are so different that there's no way you could make a "universal" D&D that covers all of the previous one, mechanically.  No, what they have said is that that Next is pulling parts and flavor from each edition.  Which is what they've done.

QuoteI see they put entire stat write ups for every iteration from 3.5, 4E & NEXT on their website for the modules but nothing for AD&D1st or 2nd editions, which to me is a blatant lie so don't tell me they didn't lie.  I know better.  IMO they are shooting themselves in the ASS again!  They have the perfect oppritunity to capitalize on sales to AD&D'ers by including conversion stats in the NEXT modules or as downloads as extra sales to those who may not invest in NEXT in the first place, namely ME and other like me.

Again, show me where anyone from WOTC said that they'd put conversions from each previous edition into each new 5e product?  If you can't show me where they made these promises, than it's not them lying.  It's you going through some serious butthurt.

Quote from: flyingcircus;709506Yes they did, in the original announcement by WoTC, it was suppose to be a universal D&D system, usable by anyone using any previous incarnation from AD&D1E up to NEXT, so why tout it if it's not.  I see they put entire stat write ups for every iteration from 3.5, 4E & NEXT on their website for the modules but nothing for AD&D1st or 2nd editions, which to me is a blatant lie so don't tell me they didn't lie.  I know better.  IMO they are shooting themselves in the ASS again!  They have the perfect oppritunity to capitalize on sales to AD&D'ers by including conversion stats in the NEXT modules or as downloads as extra sales to those who may not invest in NEXT in the first place, namely ME and other like me.

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Where did they say they would have full conversion rules for every edition prior to Next?

Also, it could be the case that they are focusing on 3-4 for conversion notes because they've probably done a lot of research.  It's highly probable that there's less people playing 1/2 edition today than 3 & 4.  

I know a lot of OSR and old schoolers might refute that, but do they represent a significant population of potential purchasers to be worth the extra effort to add conversion notes to some classic and new modules?

Quote from: JRT;709551Also, it could be the case that they are focusing on 3-4 for conversion notes because they've probably done a lot of research.  It's highly probable that there's less people playing 1/2 edition today than 3 & 4.  

I know a lot of OSR and old schoolers might refute that, but do they represent a significant population of potential purchasers to be worth the extra effort to add conversion notes to some classic and new modules?

Building on this point, it could be argued that the impression made by "The OSR crowd" is one of self-directed adaption, change and homebrew. If that is the case then "they" as a group are to be of less importance and less likely to be catered to because "OSR players" can probably DIY-retrofit any newer material to their chosen system themselves.

I am not sure if it would stand up to scrutiny, but I can imagine the financial big-wigs having players of 3.x/PF, 4E and later in their sights, rather than the fans of  the `cottage industry` OSR movement.  

This perspective has less to do with the reality of the hobby `as is` and more to do with the disconnect and assumptions made by the movers and shakers in WoTC. Whatever those assumptions may be and however they ultimately manifest.

Quote from: BarefootGaijin;709582I am not sure if it would stand up to scrutiny, but I can imagine the financial big-wigs having players of 3.x/PF, 4E and later in their sights, rather than the fans of  the `cottage industry` OSR movement.  

This perspective has less to do with the reality of the hobby `as is` and more to do with the disconnect and assumptions made by the movers and shakers in WoTC. Whatever those assumptions may be and however they ultimately manifest.

The key questions are How big is the OSR Movement really?  Is it just a short lived fad or a long term thing.  And, more importantly, how much revenue would people who are probably going to be the least likely to change their habits in any case, be?  I notice that the fans of 1e/2e are more often then not contemptuous when discussing 3/4e.  WoTC is not stupid, they are probably doing their surveys and analyzing the market.  

I would expect a business to look at what makes the most sense in terms of short and long term profits.

Quote from: One Horse Town;709105We've only got Mistwell's say-so at present chaps.

I recall asking him publicly almost as soon as he started posting, and he admitted it publicly.  I just didn't realize he was an alt to someone who had been banned here.  I remember The Rooster, but for some reason I either didn't know that was him, or forgot it...

Anyway, if anyone's search-fu is strong and you can find his first dozen posts here, you will see it.

But you're right, you should not simply trust my memory on something like this.  My memory is not my best feature, shall we say, and nobody should make a banning decision based on it.  Someone should do an IP check at least.  Or maybe just ask him directly?

Quote from: flyingcircus;709506Yes they did, in the original announcement by WoTC, it was suppose to be a universal D&D system, usable by anyone using any previous incarnation from AD&D1E up to NEXT, so why tout it if it's not.  

I don't recall any such thing. Link?

Next is like the rorschach test of RPGs.

I am fairly certain Wotc knows exactly how large the "will pay cash" portion of the OSR is.  With their 0e, 1e, and 2e reprints in addition to the pdf offereings (which sales have been said to much brisker than projected- I believe by Chris Perkins) they know enough to make a calculated move with their TSR/OSR support in upcoming material.  

Wotc (it may have been Mearls) said that Next was to allow for 1e, 3e and 4e PCs play next to each other in the same game.  Interpret that as you will, but in a recent Wotc podcast they clarified this to mean these characters could be translated to Next and played together.  

Cheerio

Quote from: Teazia;709639I am fairly certain Wotc knows exactly how large the "will pay cash" portion of the OSR is.  With their 0e, 1e, and 2e reprints in addition to the pdf offereings (which sales have been said to much brisker than projected- I believe by Chris Perkins) they know enough to make a calculated move with their TSR/OSR support in upcoming material.  

Wotc (it may have been Mearls) said that Next was to allow for 1e, 3e and 4e PCs play next to each other in the same game.  Interpret that as you will, but in a recent Wotc podcast they clarified this to mean these characters could be translated to Next and played together.  

Cheerio

That's what I read too; never encountered the alleged promise that all Next adventures would be written with stats for all editions.

Of course, anyone complaining about a game that still only exists in playtest form obviously has forgone conclusions and its probably pointless to try to counter that.

If someone wants to hate Next Im 99% certain they will hate Next.

Quote from: Teazia;709639Wotc (it may have been Mearls) said that Next was to allow for 1e, 3e and 4e PCs play next to each other in the same game.  Interpret that as you will, but in a recent Wotc podcast they clarified this to mean these characters could be translated to Next and played together.  

Cheerio

I think the concept was that 1e, 3e, and 4e Players can all build PCs in their preferred style and still play in the same game. I don't think they meant you can literally use the character from a different edition, because getting 1e, 3e, and 4e characters to all be compatible with one system would be a practical impossibility.