Quote from: Wrath of God on December 16, 2021, 08:34:47 PM
May I know what attributes?

Strength, Agility (gross motor function, large muscles), Dexterity (fine motor function, small muscles), Constitution, Intelligence, Memory, Intuition, Willpower, Charisma.

Essentially the D&D stats, but with Dex, Int, and Wis each spilt into two stats.

More info here: https://www.therpgsite.com/design-development-and-gameplay/what-attributesstats-are-desirable-for-a-fantasy-style-game/msg1199669/#msg1199669

Quote from: mightybrain on December 16, 2021, 08:38:00 PM

Quote from: jhkim on December 14, 2021, 01:16:15 PM
I'm divided on this. One thing I disliked about AD&D was how characters accumulated giant piles of magic items - which runs counter to the declared source material. Conan and Aragorn didn't go around with giant bags full of items.

The party got a fair few items in Lord of the Rings. Not least the one ring. But they also had other magic rings, daggers, swords, and a staff, a mithril coat, cloaks, gems and vials, a horn, two Palantir, magic potions, Lembas, boats, a rope, healing herbs, the white tree, seeds, and maybe more that I'm forgetting.

It annoys me so much that Jeremy Crawford has declared mithril armor a magic item. It never was, traditionally. It's just armor made from a rare metal that is lighter and stronger than steel.

Quote from: avaia on December 17, 2021, 03:13:23 AM
It annoys me so much that Jeremy Crawford has declared mithril armor a magic item. It never was, traditionally. It's just armor made from a rare metal that is lighter and stronger than steel.

I think that an argument can be made that that qualifies as magic.

Quote from: markmohrfield on December 17, 2021, 05:19:54 AM

Quote from: avaia on December 17, 2021, 03:13:23 AM
It annoys me so much that Jeremy Crawford has declared mithril armor a magic item. It never was, traditionally. It's just armor made from a rare metal that is lighter and stronger than steel.

I think that an argument can be made that that qualifies as magic.

The forging and refining might be magical.

Although I always figured it was a very pretty version of titanium

Quote from: Ghostmaker on December 17, 2021, 07:10:47 AM

Quote from: markmohrfield on December 17, 2021, 05:19:54 AM

Quote from: avaia on December 17, 2021, 03:13:23 AM
It annoys me so much that Jeremy Crawford has declared mithril armor a magic item. It never was, traditionally. It's just armor made from a rare metal that is lighter and stronger than steel.

I think that an argument can be made that that qualifies as magic.

The forging and refining might be magical.

Although I always figured it was a very pretty version of titanium

Ditto.   



A mithril weapon/armor would count the same as a magic one for terms of treasure picks being done around the campfire, but not for whether it would hurt a supernatural critter.

QuoteWhen you Roll your Stats, do you insist upon Straight Down the Line; or Arrange?

Always Arrange, unless I'm going to let the dice decide my character class.

I let the dice decide both my race and character class for my two most recent characters. Both were classes I wouldn't have considered, and one was a race I haven't previously considered. Both have been a lot of fun to play and are my favourite characters so far. I suspect if you're only ever playing the characters you think you want to play, you're missing out.

Quote from: mightybrain on December 17, 2021, 01:29:08 PM
I let the dice decide both my race and character class for my two most recent characters. Both were classes I wouldn't have considered, and one was a race I haven't previously considered. Both have been a lot of fun to play and are my favourite characters so far. I suspect if you're only ever playing the characters you think you want to play, you're missing out.

I think it's a good idea to *try* using purely random-roll. Still, from back in the day, a lot of people have tried it and didn't particularly like it. Nowadays fewer people have tried it, and I think it's worth trying, but that doesn't mean that most people would necessarily prefer it.

Out of curiousity, did you also roll for other things like background and gender? I think that's also an interesting approach to try.

Quote from: avaia on December 17, 2021, 03:13:23 AM

Quote from: mightybrain on December 16, 2021, 08:38:00 PM

Quote from: jhkim on December 14, 2021, 01:16:15 PM
I'm divided on this. One thing I disliked about AD&D was how characters accumulated giant piles of magic items - which runs counter to the declared source material. Conan and Aragorn didn't go around with giant bags full of items.

The party got a fair few items in Lord of the Rings. Not least the one ring. But they also had other magic rings, daggers, swords, and a staff, a mithril coat, cloaks, gems and vials, a horn, two Palantir, magic potions, Lembas, boats, a rope, healing herbs, the white tree, seeds, and maybe more that I'm forgetting.

It annoys me so much that Jeremy Crawford has declared mithril armor a magic item. It never was, traditionally. It's just armor made from a rare metal that is lighter and stronger than steel.

That wasn't true in 1st edition. In the 1e DMG, there is no mention of non-magical mithril armor - but for magic armor it says "Armor of +3 bonus is special meteoric iron steel, +4 is mithral alloyed steel, +5 is adamantite alloyed steel." It may have been different in earlier editions.

As for LotR, many of those either weren't magic (healing herbs) or weren't party equipment (the white tree) - and the remaining were among nine members of the Fellowship. In my experience, a high-level ranger in 1E D&D would personally have vastly more magic items than Aragorn had.

Quote from: jhkim on December 17, 2021, 01:58:31 PM

Quote from: avaia on December 17, 2021, 03:13:23 AM
It annoys me so much that Jeremy Crawford has declared mithril armor a magic item. It never was, traditionally. It's just armor made from a rare metal that is lighter and stronger than steel.

That wasn't true in 1st edition. In the 1e DMG, there is no mention of non-magical mithril armor - but for magic armor it says "Armor of +3 bonus is special meteoric iron steel, +4 is mithral alloyed steel, +5 is adamantite alloyed steel." It may have been different in earlier editions.

It's never mentioned in 1e, but a lot of people assumed that elfin chainmail, which is non-magical armor made of a lighter and stronger type of metal, was made of mithral. It was in the DMG, and then magical versions appeared in Unearthed Arcana. It's the obvious inspiration for the mithril shirt of 3e.

Quote from: markmohrfield on December 17, 2021, 05:19:54 AM

Quote from: avaia on December 17, 2021, 03:13:23 AM
It annoys me so much that Jeremy Crawford has declared mithril armor a magic item. It never was, traditionally. It's just armor made from a rare metal that is lighter and stronger than steel.

I think that an argument can be made that that qualifies as magic.

The question is: does it loose it's properties and/or fall apart in an anti-magic fiield?

Quote from: jhkim on December 17, 2021, 01:45:08 PM
Out of curiousity, did you also roll for other things like background and gender? I think that's also an interesting approach to try.

Gender, yes. Background, no. Once you have your race and stats, it usually points you towards a background and class. I fear too much randomness would lead to the bizarre patchwork characters that you usually get from the munchkins. My rule of thumb is to roll for the things you don't get to choose (like your parents) but pick the things you can choose like your career.

Quote from: jhkim on December 17, 2021, 01:58:31 PM
In my experience, a high-level ranger in 1E D&D would personally have vastly more magic items than Aragorn had.

That would depend on your DM. In my last campaign, I ended with a magic spear, pipes of haunting, and a robe of useful items (most of which I had used.) I also obtained but used up several potions along the way.

Aragorn's sword wasn't any old sword. In D&D terms it would be an artefact, along with the Elfstone. The palantír was one of seven in the world. The tree descended directly from the tree that literally brought light into the world - in the "let there be light" sense. He also had the ring of Barahir which traces back to well before the creation of the One Ring. He had a standard and horn which he needed to call forth the army of dead at the stone of Erech (another heirloom.) And a scabbard from Galadriel, along with the more typical items: the boat, the cloak, lembas, and healing herbs, that you might get on any typical D&D adventure.

Apart from the palantír which is explicitly described as having a magical effect, non of these items are definitively "magic items," but in the sense that they are described and used within the story and within myth generally, I would count them as the kinds of things that you would represent as magic items in D&D. The Cloak of Elvenkind is lifted directly, for example. And yet...

Quote from: The Lord of the Rings
"Are these magic cloaks?" asked Pippin, looking at them with wonder.

"I do not know what you mean by that," answered the leader of the Elves.

I'm liking 2d6+6 in order for the D&D style games I play. Most often those will either be AD&D2E Planescape, or AS&SH. But for the roll under style games I'm playing, it's 3d6 in order (Sharp Swords & Sinister Spells, Solar Blades & Cosmic Spells). I don't do 5E anymore if I can help it, but I made a group do 3d6 in order the last time I was forced to run 5E.

Quote from: Pat on December 17, 2021, 07:15:23 PM

Quote from: jhkim on December 17, 2021, 01:58:31 PM

Quote from: avaia on December 17, 2021, 03:13:23 AM
It annoys me so much that Jeremy Crawford has declared mithril armor a magic item. It never was, traditionally. It's just armor made from a rare metal that is lighter and stronger than steel.

That wasn't true in 1st edition. In the 1e DMG, there is no mention of non-magical mithril armor - but for magic armor it says "Armor of +3 bonus is special meteoric iron steel, +4 is mithral alloyed steel, +5 is adamantite alloyed steel." It may have been different in earlier editions.

It's never mentioned in 1e, but a lot of people assumed that elfin chainmail, which is non-magical armor made of a lighter and stronger type of metal, was made of mithral. It was in the DMG, and then magical versions appeared in Unearthed Arcana. It's the obvious inspiration for the mithril shirt of 3e.

My point is really more that Hasbro has devolved D&D culture to the point where one man feels he has unlimited authority to summarily and capriciously change aspects of the game that have existed for literally decades. D&D is not the product of Jeremy Crawford, and his missives are fruqently at odds with logic.

Mithirl obviously comes from Tolkien, and although I acknowledge what the 1E DMG says (and perhaps more importantly, *doesn't* say), it's also true that before 5E, mithril was not considered inherently magical, nor is it portrayed as such in Tolkien's source material. In fact, In his early writings, Tolkien described mithril as simply being silver that was finely-wrought by the Dwarven smiths until it was stronger and lighter than steel.

Now, we can have an argument over the extent to which original source material ought to impact D&D, but there's really no argument that JC is regarded in today's era by many younger players as being the ultimate authority on the "Rules As Written", and they regard the RAW as Holy Writ.

Sorry for the derail.