Hasbro continuously gets downgraded as a stock for financial institutions. We are going into a likely depression looking at the decrease in M2 money supply.
https://www.fool.com/investing/2023/11/05/money-supply-great-depression-big-move-in-stocks/ (https://www.fool.com/investing/2023/11/05/money-supply-great-depression-big-move-in-stocks/)
Hasbro has shown it will fight spinning off WotC and its toy sales are completely tanked due to them using poor quality manufacturers. Additionally, Hasbro is dealing with China's decreasing number of workers and supply chain issues. Next, Hasbro is trying to sell toys for its fellow ESG corp Disney that keeps releasing movies with characters no child will buy translating in failed toy sales. Go to your local Ollies if you want to see the complete failure of Hasbro toys.
The D&D IP is too valuable to let it go fallow. But then we go into the who will have the money and the desire to buy the D&D License? Games Workshop doesn't have an active RPG division and I do not see them buying D&D, and factor in the progressive pride cancer endemic to Seattle, Games Workshop can't afford to add more ESG workers to company culture - they will end up dead like Hasbro if they do. Paizo would have to kill off its Pathfinder Brand and pay more for competing IP, they won't buy it. Kobold Press and Goodman Games do not have the funds to buy the license.
I see D&D being bought by a large video game publisher and they will sublicense the D&D title to a scrub rpg tier developer and the video game will be a 5E/6E clone engine. The scrub rpg tier developer will release subpart titles that will not fare well. That is how I see D&D ending its short term relationship with fentanyl I mean ESG. D&D is going to end up being a 25 cent whore for a retard rpg developer and it will have the progressive pride flag on it probably ending up under Disney or EA, watch.
D&D is a strong brand, they have online content, and they have a nascent VTT, so...
EA buys them and starts pumping out pay-to-win, loot-box infested dreck.
Quote from: rytrasmi on January 09, 2024, 10:34:25 AM
D&D is a strong brand, they have online content, and they have a nascent VTT, so...
EA buys them and starts pumping out pay-to-win, loot-box infested dreck.
EA would only handle the online version and they would handle it very badly. I worked for them corporate and their online operations were always poor. EA will NOT do the rules design. EA as a company lacks people with the ability to write compelling lore and game rules. EA is now a glorified ESG firm that can do voice acting, character models and use the rules that were created by their betters.
Exactly, which is why it will be terrible. The recent success of BG3 might motivate a big bad computer game company to scoop up all the D&D IP rather than just license it for one game. The rules exist. The buyer just needs to create slick graphics and voice acting and monetization traps. EA can do that. If they need to mess with the rules, they can just hire some laid off WotC employee on contract. I'm sure they can maintain an online content portal. If they continue to print books, they can just sub that out.
I don't see D&D ever being owned by a rpg company ever again. Short term leases to produce content at best.
The D&D brand is (imo) monstrously over valued, and has joined things like Marvel and Star Wars as becoming 'lifestyle brands.'
People that genuinely love D&D as a game and setting will never get to control it.
Quote from: rytrasmi on January 09, 2024, 10:34:25 AM
D&D is a strong brand, they have online content, and they have a nascent VTT, so...
EA buys them and starts pumping out pay-to-win, loot-box infested dreck.
Neverwinter already is loot-box infested.
Quote from: Grognard GM on January 09, 2024, 11:05:35 AM
The D&D brand is (imo) monstrously over valued, and has joined things like Marvel and Star Wars as becoming 'lifestyle brands.'
None of those are "lifestyle brands"... yet.
They are multi-platform though. But D&D was that right out the gate.
Quote from: Omega on January 09, 2024, 11:33:25 AM
Quote from: Grognard GM on January 09, 2024, 11:05:35 AM
The D&D brand is (imo) monstrously over valued, and has joined things like Marvel and Star Wars as becoming 'lifestyle brands.'
None of those are "lifestyle brands"... yet.
They are multi-platform though. But D&D was that right out the gate.
Apparently the D&D cookbook outsold the players handbook. Knowing the ESG push at WotC, they will probably start selling Chromatic Dildos for kids with a red dragon module to help them with their transition.
https://bad-dragon.com/shop
I'll offer to buy WoTC for about tree fiddy.
Quote from: Banjo Destructo on January 09, 2024, 02:30:51 PM
I'll offer to buy WoTC for about tree fiddy.
(https://s.hdnux.com/photos/37/60/03/8323325/3/rawImage.jpg)
Quote from: Banjo Destructo on January 09, 2024, 02:30:51 PM
I'll offer to buy WoTC for about tree fiddy.
Is that dollars or pennies???
Either way you are probably over-paying.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on January 09, 2024, 10:05:09 AM
...
Hasbro has shown it will fight spinning off WotC and its toy sales are completely tanked due to them using poor quality manufacturers. Additionally, Hasbro is dealing with China's decreasing number of workers and supply chain issues. Next, Hasbro is trying to sell toys for its fellow ESG corp Disney that keeps releasing movies with characters no child will buy translating in failed toy sales. Go to your local Ollies if you want to see the complete failure of Hasbro toys.
...
The D&D IP is too valuable to let it go fallow. But then we go into the who will have the money and the desire to buy the D&D License? ...
No One.
Even if Hasbro declares bankruptcy what is most likely to happen is that they come to a deal with their creditors, cut a lot of fat, and emerge a leaner, more profitable company.
And they will never let go of the Wotc Magic ccg golden goose that is paying the bills.
In my opinion; Hasbro will have to do things that meaningfully affect the sales of MtG for it to truly collapse.
If they were really smart; They'd spin off and sell all the toy ip off as a separate company like "Kenner toys". But Hasbro is known for clinging to ip - so that is highly unlikely.
Quote from: Grognard GM on January 09, 2024, 11:05:35 AM
The D&D brand is (imo) monstrously over valued, and has joined things like Marvel and Star Wars as becoming 'lifestyle brands.'
Marvel flirted with being a lifestyle brand for quirky wine aunts around 2018. Weirdly, this didn't go over all that well and they quietly dropped it. For example, they haven't done their cooking show in years.
I'm open to an alternative title for brands where they are about everything but the original concept.
Like how Marvel and Star Wars aren't about comics or cool movies anymore, but rather a brand that can be put on funko pops, lunchboxes, mugs and t-shirts.
Don't get me wrong, OT Star Wars merchandised HARD, but the merchandise was attached to an artistic endeavour. Shit, even old 80's cartoons, basically animated commercials, had characters and storylines that had some artistic merit.
Quote from: Grognard GM on January 09, 2024, 07:59:23 PM
I'm open to an alternative title for brands where they are about everything but the original concept.
That's a merchandise brand. A lifestyle brand doesn't just sell you stuff. It sells you a lifestyle. REI sells stuff like jackets and hiking boots. They don't just sell stuff though. What they are really selling is that outdoors lifestyle. They sell branded tents but what they are really selling is this.
(https://i.imgur.com/devmaOn.jpg)
Quote from: yosemitemike on January 09, 2024, 08:48:45 PM
Quote from: Grognard GM on January 09, 2024, 07:59:23 PM
I'm open to an alternative title for brands where they are about everything but the original concept.
That's a merchandise brand. A lifestyle brand doesn't just sell you stuff. It sells you a lifestyle. REI sells stuff like jackets and hiking boots. They don't just sell stuff though. What they are really selling is that outdoors lifestyle. They sell branded tents but what they are really selling is this.
(https://i.imgur.com/devmaOn.jpg)
Greetings!
*Laughing* Yosemitemike, that's a very sharp observation you have there! I like it. Very true, too. Not *just* tents and gear--but *THAT*. *Laughing*
Cute, laughing girls, crisp, sunny mornings, yummy, hot coffee...the invigorating environment of nature...damn, REI is going big there, huh? ;D
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: yosemitemike on January 09, 2024, 08:48:45 PM
Quote from: Grognard GM on January 09, 2024, 07:59:23 PM
I'm open to an alternative title for brands where they are about everything but the original concept.
That's a merchandise brand. A lifestyle brand doesn't just sell you stuff. It sells you a lifestyle. REI sells stuff like jackets and hiking boots. They don't just sell stuff though. What they are really selling is that outdoors lifestyle. They sell branded tents but what they are really selling is this.
(https://i.imgur.com/devmaOn.jpg)
PxxNTxNG
I'd like to solve the puzzle....
You guys may be forgetting that Geek/Nerd is supposed to be a lifestyle. I'm a Geek/Nerd, so here are my licensed brand clothing and display pieces. I'm living my best geek life, #SuchANerd! (picture of watching a Marvel movie.)
To us they're hobbies, to the "I'm SO Sheldon!" set it's a lifestyle.
I suspect whomever bought D&D could make money on the IP and still have a small group keep the table top version alive.
I also think that such a small group could easily make a profit large enough to justify their existence (if the group wasn't woke and chasing off customers and producing trash). That last part is the hard part of course but not that hard if someone intelligence buys the thing.
If Hasbro goes BK, it will be Chapter 11. AKA, they will not be selling off anything of real value, just tossing or renegotiating debt.
Ch11 BK is a really impressive business tool. They could easily dump non-performing brands or divisions, or just spin them off where they dump both people and products.
If anything, Hasbro would be in far better shape post BK.
They'll keep D&D...even if their crazy bet on a digital 6e fails. The licensing opportunities alone are worth keeping D&D even if they never produce another tabletop RPG edition.
Anyone thinking D&D is going to collapse is deluding themselves.
The game will see a decline in popularity. The Microsoft executives working for WotC are going to bleed their consumers dry with the VTT. As people drift off, WotC will squeeze harder. Their platform will stabilize on a smaller customer base than the current crop of players, but they'll be providing WotC with higher and more consistent revenue.
The D&D "lifestyle" people will continue. Women will continue to buy their coffee mugs about how they're so totally a bunch of raging tiefling barbarians if they don't get their coffee.
No "real" game company will ever get their hands on D&D again. D&D will also never die an ignominious death. We will all go to our graves watching D&D be twisted and molested by soulless corporate executives to sell to the latest crop of hip young 20-somethings with weird hair and no respect for the hobby. None of us will ever get the satisfaction of seeing D&D finally fail. There will be no retribution for how this company or that executive butchered the game.
Some of us will cling to hope, shaking our fists at the sky, alternating between prayers for a reckoning and deliverance, neither of which will ever come.
Quote from: Corolinth on January 11, 2024, 03:51:16 PM
Anyone thinking D&D is going to collapse is deluding themselves.
The game will see a decline in popularity. The Microsoft executives working for WotC are going to bleed their consumers dry with the VTT. As people drift off, WotC will squeeze harder. Their platform will stabilize on a smaller customer base than the current crop of players, but they'll be providing WotC with higher and more consistent revenue.
The D&D "lifestyle" people will continue. Women will continue to buy their coffee mugs about how they're so totally a bunch of raging tiefling barbarians if they don't get their coffee.
No "real" game company will ever get their hands on D&D again. D&D will also never die an ignominious death. We will all go to our graves watching D&D be twisted and molested by soulless corporate executives to sell to the latest crop of hip young 20-somethings with weird hair and no respect for the hobby. None of us will ever get the satisfaction of seeing D&D finally fail. There will be no retribution for how this company or that executive butchered the game.
Some of us will cling to hope, shaking our fists at the sky, alternating between prayers for a reckoning and deliverance, neither of which will ever come.
We are going through a recession that has been put off from the 2008 recession, do you think Hasbro will survive it? Do you think President Dementia Hitler will give Hasbro a bailout, Hasbro is going down in flames.
Hasbro's stock has fallen 45% over 5 years and its continuing to fall. Hasbro sells luxury goods (toys) in a market where people are going to be having problems paying rent, electric bill and food for the family. Hasbro's toys are based on ESG brands from Disney and no one is buying it. Hasbro is going all out on a VTT to "save Hasbro" for a game is all over the web on multiple VTT's that does it better than what Hasbro will ever be able to do, while it also alienated ALL of its 3rd party vendors who have created their own 5E clones to avoid OGL entanglement and steal D&D's lunch. And oh, that VTT Hasbro is selling is to make everyone pay more for D&D during the mother of all recessions - more like Great Depression 2.0 WEF edition when there are other VTT's where they can play the game the way they always have played.
We are looking at another 4E style debacle for 6E launch (2 of 3 fails for 4E are present in 6E):
-New OGL pissed off developers they have peeled off
-New VTT that may or may not be supported but will totally be cool
The only fail not present is that 6E is staying somewhat close to 5E rules but likely with more nerfs to monster lethality.
It is more likely than not that Hasbro will not make it out of the economic downturn. If that happens, then D&D gets spun off. The money to save dead companies just isn't there now.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on January 11, 2024, 05:20:48 PM
Quote from: Corolinth on January 11, 2024, 03:51:16 PM
Anyone thinking D&D is going to collapse is deluding themselves.
The game will see a decline in popularity. The Microsoft executives working for WotC are going to bleed their consumers dry with the VTT. As people drift off, WotC will squeeze harder. Their platform will stabilize on a smaller customer base than the current crop of players, but they'll be providing WotC with higher and more consistent revenue.
The D&D "lifestyle" people will continue. Women will continue to buy their coffee mugs about how they're so totally a bunch of raging tiefling barbarians if they don't get their coffee.
No "real" game company will ever get their hands on D&D again. D&D will also never die an ignominious death. We will all go to our graves watching D&D be twisted and molested by soulless corporate executives to sell to the latest crop of hip young 20-somethings with weird hair and no respect for the hobby. None of us will ever get the satisfaction of seeing D&D finally fail. There will be no retribution for how this company or that executive butchered the game.
Some of us will cling to hope, shaking our fists at the sky, alternating between prayers for a reckoning and deliverance, neither of which will ever come.
We are going through a recession that has been put off from the 2008 recession, do you think Hasbro will survive it? Do you think President Dementia Hitler will give Hasbro a bailout, Hasbro is going down in flames.
Hasbro's stock has fallen 45% over 5 years and its continuing to fall. Hasbro sells luxury goods (toys) in a market where people are going to be having problems paying rent, electric bill and food for the family. Hasbro's toys are based on ESG brands from Disney and no one is buying it. Hasbro is going all out on a VTT to "save Hasbro" for a game is all over the web on multiple VTT's that does it better than what Hasbro will ever be able to do, while it also alienated ALL of its 3rd party vendors who have created their own 5E clones to avoid OGL entanglement and steal D&D's lunch. And oh, that VTT Hasbro is selling is to make everyone pay more for D&D during the mother of all recessions - more like Great Depression 2.0 WEF edition when there are other VTT's where they can play the game the way they always have played.
We are looking at another 4E style debacle for 6E launch (2 of 3 fails for 4E are present in 6E):
-New OGL pissed off developers they have peeled off
-New VTT that may or may not be supported but will totally be cool
The only fail not present is that 6E is staying somewhat close to 5E rules but likely with more nerfs to monster lethality.
It is more likely than not that Hasbro will not make it out of the economic downturn. If that happens, then D&D gets spun off. The money to save dead companies just isn't there now.
The whole U.S. economy is floating on debt. Tens of trillions of dollars, of debt. The RPG economy, is definitely under threat.
Quote from: Jam The MF on January 11, 2024, 07:20:15 PM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on January 11, 2024, 05:20:48 PM
Quote from: Corolinth on January 11, 2024, 03:51:16 PM
Anyone thinking D&D is going to collapse is deluding themselves.
The game will see a decline in popularity. The Microsoft executives working for WotC are going to bleed their consumers dry with the VTT. As people drift off, WotC will squeeze harder. Their platform will stabilize on a smaller customer base than the current crop of players, but they'll be providing WotC with higher and more consistent revenue.
The D&D "lifestyle" people will continue. Women will continue to buy their coffee mugs about how they're so totally a bunch of raging tiefling barbarians if they don't get their coffee.
No "real" game company will ever get their hands on D&D again. D&D will also never die an ignominious death. We will all go to our graves watching D&D be twisted and molested by soulless corporate executives to sell to the latest crop of hip young 20-somethings with weird hair and no respect for the hobby. None of us will ever get the satisfaction of seeing D&D finally fail. There will be no retribution for how this company or that executive butchered the game.
Some of us will cling to hope, shaking our fists at the sky, alternating between prayers for a reckoning and deliverance, neither of which will ever come.
We are going through a recession that has been put off from the 2008 recession, do you think Hasbro will survive it? Do you think President Dementia Hitler will give Hasbro a bailout, Hasbro is going down in flames.
Hasbro's stock has fallen 45% over 5 years and its continuing to fall. Hasbro sells luxury goods (toys) in a market where people are going to be having problems paying rent, electric bill and food for the family. Hasbro's toys are based on ESG brands from Disney and no one is buying it. Hasbro is going all out on a VTT to "save Hasbro" for a game is all over the web on multiple VTT's that does it better than what Hasbro will ever be able to do, while it also alienated ALL of its 3rd party vendors who have created their own 5E clones to avoid OGL entanglement and steal D&D's lunch. And oh, that VTT Hasbro is selling is to make everyone pay more for D&D during the mother of all recessions - more like Great Depression 2.0 WEF edition when there are other VTT's where they can play the game the way they always have played.
We are looking at another 4E style debacle for 6E launch (2 of 3 fails for 4E are present in 6E):
-New OGL pissed off developers they have peeled off
-New VTT that may or may not be supported but will totally be cool
The only fail not present is that 6E is staying somewhat close to 5E rules but likely with more nerfs to monster lethality.
It is more likely than not that Hasbro will not make it out of the economic downturn. If that happens, then D&D gets spun off. The money to save dead companies just isn't there now.
The whole U.S. economy is floating on debt. Tens of trillions of dollars, of debt. The RPG economy, is definitely under threat.
What will it be avocado toast of PHB 6.0 - toast, always toast.
The most likely fate of D&D is that Hasbro will farm it and Magic out to Renegade. Who they have a good relationship with. And then kill WotC. WotC has shown to be expendable.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley on January 11, 2024, 09:25:33 PM
The most likely fate of D&D is that Hasbro will farm it and Magic out to Renegade. Who they have a good relationship with. And then kill WotC. WotC has shown to be expendable.
WotC is the only division that makes money for them and its in reality MTG only. D&D made money for this last quarter because they had a top tier RPG company come to them and have to beg to get rights to make BG3. No one at BG3 sought out Larian Studios, NO ONE. In fact they were turned down, then Divinity Original Sin 2 came out and THEN WotC approved them. Looking at the other WotC D&D Games, shit comes to mind, purified shit all of it.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley on January 11, 2024, 09:25:33 PM
The most likely fate of D&D is that Hasbro will farm it and Magic out to Renegade. Who they have a good relationship with. And then kill WotC. WotC has shown to be expendable.
Great, farm it out to a company even shittier and wokier than WotC.
Quote from: Grognard GM on January 11, 2024, 10:08:54 PM
Quote from: Darrin Kelley on January 11, 2024, 09:25:33 PM
The most likely fate of D&D is that Hasbro will farm it and Magic out to Renegade. Who they have a good relationship with. And then kill WotC. WotC has shown to be expendable.
Great, farm it out to a company even shittier and wokier than WotC.
More like Sears end. Sears bought Kmart and sucked itself dry going through multiple bankruptcies and sell Kmarts and Sears properties for cash injections.
Honestly, I think that even bankruptcy and being sold off won't save anything.
The problem with Hasbro is mostly that their Disney toys have been left to rot on store shelves over the last few years. Especially Star Wars toys; no one wants Sequel Trilogy toys. It's hard to see this NOT death spiraling for Hasbro because poor sales mean their planogram space will get cut. Unless Hasbro gets a super-hot property yesterday the toy division will death spiral.
Things are...OK in WotC. Almost all of the revenue is from Magic and Magic has been printing money with the most aggressively anti-consumer practices imaginable. Hiring the Pinkertons, a $1000 pack of proxy cards, being repeatedly caught with AI art when they said they wouldn't use AI art....yeah, WotC is making money, but I guarantee the reason Hasbro told them to lay people off was because everyone knows that the money was yesterday and there will be no free cash flow tomorrow.
D&D is WotC's smaller property. Even that's down because people cancelled their D&D Beyond subscriptions back during the OGL. Baldur's Gate is literally the only thing holding the sky up.
I am of the opinion that when Hasbro actually goes bankrupt, no one will have the cash to actually buy them. Sure they might be valued well, but by the time Hasbro actually gets to bankruptcy, anyone with a brain will realize that the entirety of Hasbro is strip-mined properties which aren't worth anything, anymore, so you have a bunch of properties which are in theory worth something, but in practical business are all dead weight and Magic especially is suffering a severe technical debt problem.
This probably means that corporations who aren't dead will buy slivers of Hasbro because no one will be able to afford to buy the whole of it.
I am hoping that Larian will be the ones who wind up with D&D, because that would at least mean that we would get good Baldur's Gate games and the owners actually like the property. I think the best owner for Magic would probably be Nintendo (Pokemon) but Konami would probably be a good second. I somehow doubt EA will be buying.
Quote from: Fheredin on January 11, 2024, 10:16:41 PM
Honestly, I think that even bankruptcy and being sold off won't save anything.
The problem with Hasbro is mostly that their Disney toys have been left to rot on store shelves over the last few years. Especially Star Wars toys; no one wants Sequel Trilogy toys. It's hard to see this NOT death spiraling for Hasbro because poor sales mean their planogram space will get cut. Unless Hasbro gets a super-hot property yesterday the toy division will death spiral.
Things are...OK in WotC. Almost all of the revenue is from Magic and Magic has been printing money with the most aggressively anti-consumer practices imaginable. Hiring the Pinkertons, a $1000 pack of proxy cards, being repeatedly caught with AI art when they said they wouldn't use AI art....yeah, WotC is making money, but I guarantee the reason Hasbro told them to lay people off was because everyone knows that the money was yesterday and there will be no free cash flow tomorrow.
D&D is WotC's smaller property. Even that's down because people cancelled their D&D Beyond subscriptions back during the OGL. Baldur's Gate is literally the only thing holding the sky up.
I am of the opinion that when Hasbro actually goes bankrupt, no one will have the cash to actually buy them. Sure they might be valued well, but by the time Hasbro actually gets to bankruptcy, anyone with a brain will realize that the entirety of Hasbro is strip-mined properties which aren't worth anything, anymore, so you have a bunch of properties which are in theory worth something, but in practical business are all dead weight and Magic especially is suffering a severe technical debt problem.
This probably means that corporations who aren't dead will buy slivers of Hasbro because no one will be able to afford to buy the whole of it.
I am hoping that Larian will be the ones who wind up with D&D, because that would at least mean that we would get good Baldur's Gate games and the owners actually like the property. I think the best owner for Magic would probably be Nintendo (Pokemon) but Konami would probably be a good second. I somehow doubt EA will be buying.
Never underestimate Andrew Wilson's ability to make a bad decision for EA. He has the Bioware turd that was killed by ESG. He remembers the glory days of Bioware and Baldur's Gate and decides to buy the D&D license to make BG and because its cheap the rules for D&D as well with its VTT. He then allows zombie bioware to write Baldur's Gate 4 where the main plotline is about becoming the trans goddess that kills bhall and gives anal birth to the next Faerun called "Front Hole". Wilson is incompetent, greedy and he'd find new ways to stripmine D&D that Hasbro had never thought possible. On the D&D VTT loot box upgrades for treasures and the DM has no control over handing out for example.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on January 11, 2024, 11:23:07 PMOn the D&D VTT loot box upgrades for treasures and the DM has no control over handing out for example.
"Hey, why do you have a Vorpal Sword?"
"From the dungeon loot."
"The Goblin cave? It has a masterwork sword."
"I bought a lootbox."
Quote from: Grognard GM on January 11, 2024, 11:36:16 PM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on January 11, 2024, 11:23:07 PMOn the D&D VTT loot box upgrades for treasures and the DM has no control over handing out for example.
"Hey, why do you have a Vorpal Sword?"
"From the dungeon loot."
"The Goblin cave? It has a masterwork sword."
"I bought a lootbox."
All the guyliner on Andrew Wilson's face would run with tears of joy for $2 from a D&D Loot box even if it cost him $10K by losing a lifetime customer. EA is a horribly managed short term thinking company now. If they were a nuclear power plant, there would be fukushimas all over the place.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on January 11, 2024, 11:54:38 PM
Quote from: Grognard GM on January 11, 2024, 11:36:16 PM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on January 11, 2024, 11:23:07 PMOn the D&D VTT loot box upgrades for treasures and the DM has no control over handing out for example.
"Hey, why do you have a Vorpal Sword?"
"From the dungeon loot."
"The Goblin cave? It has a masterwork sword."
"I bought a lootbox."
All the guyliner on Andrew Wilson's face would run with tears of joy for $2 from a D&D Loot box even if it cost him $10K by losing a lifetime customer. EA is a horribly managed short term thinking company now. If they were a nuclear power plant, there would be fukushimas all over the place.
This is just insane gibberish!
How does 10k over a lifetime boost this Quarter's earnings? If it doesn't make the numbers go up NOW, no bonuses. You're not very good at being a corporate locust, I can tell you never went to Harvard Business school!
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on January 11, 2024, 05:20:48 PM
Quote from: Corolinth on January 11, 2024, 03:51:16 PM
Anyone thinking D&D is going to collapse is deluding themselves.
The game will see a decline in popularity. The Microsoft executives working for WotC are going to bleed their consumers dry with the VTT. As people drift off, WotC will squeeze harder. Their platform will stabilize on a smaller customer base than the current crop of players, but they'll be providing WotC with higher and more consistent revenue.
The D&D "lifestyle" people will continue. Women will continue to buy their coffee mugs about how they're so totally a bunch of raging tiefling barbarians if they don't get their coffee.
No "real" game company will ever get their hands on D&D again. D&D will also never die an ignominious death. We will all go to our graves watching D&D be twisted and molested by soulless corporate executives to sell to the latest crop of hip young 20-somethings with weird hair and no respect for the hobby. None of us will ever get the satisfaction of seeing D&D finally fail. There will be no retribution for how this company or that executive butchered the game.
Some of us will cling to hope, shaking our fists at the sky, alternating between prayers for a reckoning and deliverance, neither of which will ever come.
We are going through a recession that has been put off from the 2008 recession, do you think Hasbro will survive it? Do you think President Dementia Hitler will give Hasbro a bailout, Hasbro is going down in flames.
Hasbro's stock has fallen 45% over 5 years and its continuing to fall. Hasbro sells luxury goods (toys) in a market where people are going to be having problems paying rent, electric bill and food for the family. Hasbro's toys are based on ESG brands from Disney and no one is buying it. Hasbro is going all out on a VTT to "save Hasbro" for a game is all over the web on multiple VTT's that does it better than what Hasbro will ever be able to do, while it also alienated ALL of its 3rd party vendors who have created their own 5E clones to avoid OGL entanglement and steal D&D's lunch. And oh, that VTT Hasbro is selling is to make everyone pay more for D&D during the mother of all recessions - more like Great Depression 2.0 WEF edition when there are other VTT's where they can play the game the way they always have played.
We are looking at another 4E style debacle for 6E launch (2 of 3 fails for 4E are present in 6E):
-New OGL pissed off developers they have peeled off
-New VTT that may or may not be supported but will totally be cool
The only fail not present is that 6E is staying somewhat close to 5E rules but likely with more nerfs to monster lethality.
It is more likely than not that Hasbro will not make it out of the economic downturn. If that happens, then D&D gets spun off. The money to save dead companies just isn't there now.
Here is what I think.
Suppose there are only two possibilities.
1) Hasbro goes bankrupt and has to sell off D&D.
2) There really is a God after all, somebody has personally offended him somehow, and we're all living in the personal Hell that God created specifically to torment that person.
I think #2 is the more likely scenario, even though that would mean there actually would be a Hell that could freeze over as the precondition for scenario #1.
Of course I don't think Hasbro is a healthy company. If they were, the prospect of their bankruptcy wouldn't be such a seductive cocktease for everyone to get all worked up about.
Hasbro is going to Sears itself. Hasbro toys will eventually be gone, there will be a holding company or some other bullshit with managers acting as salary vampires against the company to justify the Hasbro board. The actual company left will be Avalon Hill and WotC. Hasbro will strip mine its IP and sell it off chunk by chunk starting with Avalon Hill till its gone then WotC till all that is left is MTG.
Just look at how Kmart bought Sears and just sold itself into oblivion and did not put an actual fight. It was just bankruptcy after bankruptcy as the board ate the company to death.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on January 12, 2024, 04:42:32 AM
Hasbro is going to Sears itself. Hasbro toys will eventually be gone, there will be a holding company or some other bullshit with managers acting as salary vampires against the company to justify the Hasbro board. The actual company left will be Avalon Hill and WotC. Hasbro will strip mine its IP and sell it off chunk by chunk starting with Avalon Hill till its gone then WotC till all that is left is MTG.
Just look at how Kmart bought Sears and just sold itself into oblivion and did not put an actual fight. It was just bankruptcy after bankruptcy as the board ate the company to death.
I think you are right about the motivation of the board and officers. People think these companies are all run by intelligent people who want the best for the company and the shareholders, but it is often quite the opposite. Once things start going bad that is just a great opportunity for these parasites to suck the company dry until there is nothing left. Occasionally you get management that is competent and work for the best interests of the company, but not often. I don't think Hasbro is one of those companies.
Quote from: Grognard GM on January 11, 2024, 11:36:16 PM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on January 11, 2024, 11:23:07 PMOn the D&D VTT loot box upgrades for treasures and the DM has no control over handing out for example.
"Hey, why do you have a Vorpal Sword?"
"From the dungeon loot."
"The Goblin cave? It has a masterwork sword."
"I bought a lootbox."
Well the plan seems to be to make the DM subservient to the players. Just a vend bot for storygamers pretending to play an RPG.
No wonder they want an AI DM.
Quote from: Omega on January 12, 2024, 09:44:58 PM
Quote from: Grognard GM on January 11, 2024, 11:36:16 PM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on January 11, 2024, 11:23:07 PMOn the D&D VTT loot box upgrades for treasures and the DM has no control over handing out for example.
"Hey, why do you have a Vorpal Sword?"
"From the dungeon loot."
"The Goblin cave? It has a masterwork sword."
"I bought a lootbox."
Well the plan seems to be to make the DM subservient to the players. Just a vend bot for storygamers pretending to play an RPG.
No wonder they want an AI DM.
Press 1 to hit the orange Lich in the face with your magic bike-lock.
Press 2 to have sex with your demisexual otherkin Henchpersons.
press 3 to be reminded how stunning and brave you are.
Quote from: Grognard GM on January 12, 2024, 11:14:34 PM
Quote from: Omega on January 12, 2024, 09:44:58 PM
Quote from: Grognard GM on January 11, 2024, 11:36:16 PM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on January 11, 2024, 11:23:07 PMOn the D&D VTT loot box upgrades for treasures and the DM has no control over handing out for example.
"Hey, why do you have a Vorpal Sword?"
"From the dungeon loot."
"The Goblin cave? It has a masterwork sword."
"I bought a lootbox."
Well the plan seems to be to make the DM subservient to the players. Just a vend bot for storygamers pretending to play an RPG.
No wonder they want an AI DM.
Press 1 to hit the orange Lich in the face with your magic bike-lock.
Press 2 to have sex with your demisexual otherkin Henchpersons.
press 3 to be reminded how stunning and brave you are.
Ha!!!
Quote from: Fheredin on January 11, 2024, 10:16:41 PM
Honestly, I think that even bankruptcy and being sold off won't save anything.
The problem with Hasbro is mostly that their Disney toys have been left to rot on store shelves over the last few years. Especially Star Wars toys; no one wants Sequel Trilogy toys. It's hard to see this NOT death spiraling for Hasbro because poor sales mean their planogram space will get cut. Unless Hasbro gets a super-hot property yesterday the toy division will death spiral.
I meander through Ollie's once every week or two. For those that don't know, Ollie's is a discount chain that sells random stuff. In the last month (two stores) I've seen lots of Disney action figures (Marvel mostly, but also Star Wars). This week they've got a major sale on D&D stuff- $9.99 for that Krynn game (had a whole pallet's worth on display) and something else D&D minis related (far fewer of these). Person in front of me in the checkout line had 6-8 of the Krynn things (maybe for ebay?) and a few of the others. This was deep in Team Blue turf (40 minutes outside DC). The deep in Team Red store had fewer action figures and at least some were knock offs by brands I've never heard of.
Oh, and they had a half dozen of the Acrobat and Ranger figures from the 80s cartoon.
Quote from: Howard on January 13, 2024, 12:10:40 AM
Quote from: Fheredin on January 11, 2024, 10:16:41 PM
Honestly, I think that even bankruptcy and being sold off won't save anything.
The problem with Hasbro is mostly that their Disney toys have been left to rot on store shelves over the last few years. Especially Star Wars toys; no one wants Sequel Trilogy toys. It's hard to see this NOT death spiraling for Hasbro because poor sales mean their planogram space will get cut. Unless Hasbro gets a super-hot property yesterday the toy division will death spiral.
I meander through Ollie's once every week or two. For those that don't know, Ollie's is a discount chain that sells random stuff. In the last month (two stores) I've seen lots of Disney action figures (Marvel mostly, but also Star Wars). This week they've got a major sale on D&D stuff- $9.99 for that Krynn game (had a whole pallet's worth on display) and something else D&D minis related (far fewer of these). Person in front of me in the checkout line had 6-8 of the Krynn things (maybe for ebay?) and a few of the others. This was deep in Team Blue turf (40 minutes outside DC). The deep in Team Red store had fewer action figures and at least some were knock offs by brands I've never heard of.
Oh, and they had a half dozen of the Acrobat and Ranger figures from the 80s cartoon.
I also checked an Ollie's location. They had the Krynn box set. I didn't notice any minis. They had larger action figures, but I wasn't interested in those. I was hoping to see miniatures to scale, on clearance. I didn't need any, but if they had been cheap.....
Quote from: Jam The MF on January 13, 2024, 01:58:58 AM
Quote from: Howard on January 13, 2024, 12:10:40 AM
Quote from: Fheredin on January 11, 2024, 10:16:41 PM
Honestly, I think that even bankruptcy and being sold off won't save anything.
The problem with Hasbro is mostly that their Disney toys have been left to rot on store shelves over the last few years. Especially Star Wars toys; no one wants Sequel Trilogy toys. It's hard to see this NOT death spiraling for Hasbro because poor sales mean their planogram space will get cut. Unless Hasbro gets a super-hot property yesterday the toy division will death spiral.
I meander through Ollie's once every week or two. For those that don't know, Ollie's is a discount chain that sells random stuff. In the last month (two stores) I've seen lots of Disney action figures (Marvel mostly, but also Star Wars). This week they've got a major sale on D&D stuff- $9.99 for that Krynn game (had a whole pallet's worth on display) and something else D&D minis related (far fewer of these). Person in front of me in the checkout line had 6-8 of the Krynn things (maybe for ebay?) and a few of the others. This was deep in Team Blue turf (40 minutes outside DC). The deep in Team Red store had fewer action figures and at least some were knock offs by brands I've never heard of.
Oh, and they had a half dozen of the Acrobat and Ranger figures from the 80s cartoon.
I also checked an Ollie's location. They had the Krynn box set. I didn't notice any minis. They had larger action figures, but I wasn't interested in those. I was hoping to see miniatures to scale, on clearance. I didn't need any, but if they had been cheap.....
Looks to be 'TERRAIN OR CREATURES' campaign cases for $2.99 (vs. around $19 list price) based upon their ad. Like I said, there seemed to be fewer of them if any. Nothing looks like it was in the 25mm or similar scale (the cartoon stuff was 6" scale).
Quote from: Fheredin on January 11, 2024, 10:16:41 PMThings are...OK in WotC. Almost all of the revenue is from Magic and Magic has been printing money with the most aggressively anti-consumer practices imaginable. Hiring the Pinkertons, a $1000 pack of proxy cards, being repeatedly caught with AI art when they said they wouldn't use AI art....yeah, WotC is making money, but I guarantee the reason Hasbro told them to lay people off was because everyone knows that the money was yesterday and there will be no free cash flow tomorrow.
D&D is WotC's smaller property. Even that's down because people cancelled their D&D Beyond subscriptions back during the OGL. Baldur's Gate is literally the only thing holding the sky up.
There isn't any logical reason for WotC to exist as a separate division. The sales and marketing for D&D and M:TG don't really overlap much and they are more similar to other Hasbro brands than to each other. If Hasbro goes through an extended financial downturn, the first action I'd expect is for Hasbro to close their office in Seattle and split D&D and M:TG back into the various Hasbro departments where they fit better. Either that or spin them off for sale. But I don't see much future for the WotC "brand" as it is fairly pointless already.
Quote from: hedgehobbit on January 13, 2024, 10:39:34 AM
Quote from: Fheredin on January 11, 2024, 10:16:41 PMThings are...OK in WotC. Almost all of the revenue is from Magic and Magic has been printing money with the most aggressively anti-consumer practices imaginable. Hiring the Pinkertons, a $1000 pack of proxy cards, being repeatedly caught with AI art when they said they wouldn't use AI art....yeah, WotC is making money, but I guarantee the reason Hasbro told them to lay people off was because everyone knows that the money was yesterday and there will be no free cash flow tomorrow.
D&D is WotC's smaller property. Even that's down because people cancelled their D&D Beyond subscriptions back during the OGL. Baldur's Gate is literally the only thing holding the sky up.
There isn't any logical reason for WotC to exist as a separate division. The sales and marketing for D&D and M:TG don't really overlap much and they are more similar to other Hasbro brands than to each other. If Hasbro goes through an extended financial downturn, the first action I'd expect is for Hasbro to close their office in Seattle and split D&D and M:TG back into the various Hasbro departments where they fit better. Either that or spin them off for sale. But I don't see much future for the WotC "brand" as it is fairly pointless already.
D&D and MTG makes sense to keep together, they are gaming divisions dealing with fantasy. So far WotC has been trying to merge MTG into D&D, never took. But they did put in D&D creatures into MTG successfully through cards. The writers for the novels for MTG or D&D can work on either IP. They should roll Avalon Hill into WotC. Next spin WotC off as a spearate company and let Hasbro fucking die, its a dog. Hasbro went full ESG for a company that sells toys to children, no sane parent wants that ass cancer companies goods in their homes.