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When did the Wussing of D&D Start?

Started by RPGPundit, October 01, 2023, 11:15:22 PM

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GeekyBugle

#75
October 05, 2023, 08:55:01 PM
Quote from: Omega on October 05, 2023, 07:44:40 PM
Quote from: Venka on October 04, 2023, 12:05:52 PM

As to whether people here didn't get mad until they started pretending Pundit didn't help with the new edition, I couldn't say.  Companies had this idea, possibly related to "ESG" investments, that they needed to "piss off the conservatards" or whatever, and many of them made small statements about equality or whatever, but these weren't targeted enough and I guess they wanted redder meat, so a lot of them started being overtly and deliberately offensive.  While this is less now than it was a couple years ago, it's still going on.  If this negatively impacted your view of certain companies, I mean, that's fine, it certainly did for me.  If your only reason for hating 5e is that they tried to rewrite history to fuck over Pundit, uh, sure, that's a fine reason.

But I'm not even saying that happened.  I'm saying if it did happen, good.

Zweihander got all the consultants removed from not just the later 5e prints but also the Basic rules and anywhere else. But there was displeasure with WotC very early on as Mearls loved to chirp some new buzzword at least once a week. WotC lives on lies and outrage marketing now.

The "WotKKK hate" precedes Pundit's credit removal by a good chunk of months if not a year or more.

IIRC it started with the usual "inclusive" declarations about how men (especially the straight, white, christian type) were evil and not welcome, then more "inclusive" statements from Mearls and company.
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RPGPundit

#76
October 07, 2023, 02:07:27 AM
My removal (and that of all the other consultants save one) was entirely opportunistic, having nothing to do with me or any of the others except Zak S. It was the only way they could take Zak's name out without him suing them, because now they can just claim that they didn't feel the need to give credit to any of the consultants.
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Exploderwizard

#77
October 07, 2023, 10:38:06 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit on October 07, 2023, 02:07:27 AM
My removal (and that of all the other consultants save one) was entirely opportunistic, having nothing to do with me or any of the others except Zak S. It was the only way they could take Zak's name out without him suing them, because now they can just claim that they didn't feel the need to give credit to any of the consultants.

Refusing to credit anyone who contributed and helped shape  the game is a shitass move, regardless of who it is.
Quote from: JonWakeGamers, as a whole, are much like primitive cavemen when confronted with a new game. Rather than \'oh, neat, what\'s this do?\', the reaction is to decide if it\'s a sex hole, then hit it with a rock.

Quote from: Old Geezer;724252At some point it seems like D&D is going to disappear up its own ass.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;766997In the randomness of the dice lies the seed for the great oak of creativity and fun. The great virtue of the dice is that they come without boxed text.

Brad

#78
October 08, 2023, 03:50:03 PM
Quote from: Exploderwizard on October 07, 2023, 10:38:06 AM
Refusing to credit anyone who contributed and helped shape  the game is a shitass move, regardless of who it is.

Better than the HPL-inspired games where they basically tell you a billion reasons why the dude is a horrible person before raping his IP.
It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance.

Ghostmaker

#79
October 09, 2023, 09:12:54 AM
Quote from: Exploderwizard on October 07, 2023, 10:38:06 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit on October 07, 2023, 02:07:27 AM
My removal (and that of all the other consultants save one) was entirely opportunistic, having nothing to do with me or any of the others except Zak S. It was the only way they could take Zak's name out without him suing them, because now they can just claim that they didn't feel the need to give credit to any of the consultants.

Refusing to credit anyone who contributed and helped shape  the game is a shitass move, regardless of who it is.
Yeah, but they didn't care. Their woke cred was dependent on ejecting the evil Zak. Dumping Pundit was a bonus.

Frankly, if I was a freelancer it would've instantly soured me on EVER doing work for WotC. Who wants to work for someone who'll airbrush you out of the credits the moment you're not in good standing with the Party?

RPGPundit

#80
October 12, 2023, 03:43:13 PM
Quote from: Ghostmaker on October 09, 2023, 09:12:54 AM
Quote from: Exploderwizard on October 07, 2023, 10:38:06 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit on October 07, 2023, 02:07:27 AM
My removal (and that of all the other consultants save one) was entirely opportunistic, having nothing to do with me or any of the others except Zak S. It was the only way they could take Zak's name out without him suing them, because now they can just claim that they didn't feel the need to give credit to any of the consultants.

Refusing to credit anyone who contributed and helped shape  the game is a shitass move, regardless of who it is.
Yeah, but they didn't care. Their woke cred was dependent on ejecting the evil Zak. Dumping Pundit was a bonus.

Frankly, if I was a freelancer it would've instantly soured me on EVER doing work for WotC. Who wants to work for someone who'll airbrush you out of the credits the moment you're not in good standing with the Party?

Someone who feels sure THEY will never be purged.
LION & DRAGON: Medieval-Authentic OSR Roleplaying is available now! You only THINK you\'ve played \'medieval fantasy\' until you play L&D.


My Blog:  http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/
The most famous uruguayan gaming blog on the planet!

NEW!
Check out my short OSR supplements series; The RPGPundit Presents!


Dark Albion: The Rose War! The OSR fantasy setting of the history that inspired Shakespeare and Martin alike.
Also available in Variant Cover form!
Also, now with the CULTS OF CHAOS cult-generation sourcebook

ARROWS OF INDRA
Arrows of Indra: The Old-School Epic Indian RPG!
NOW AVAILABLE: AoI in print form

LORDS OF OLYMPUS
The new Diceless RPG of multiversal power, adventure and intrigue, now available.

Ghostmaker

#81
October 13, 2023, 08:02:38 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit on October 12, 2023, 03:43:13 PM
Quote from: Ghostmaker on October 09, 2023, 09:12:54 AM
Quote from: Exploderwizard on October 07, 2023, 10:38:06 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit on October 07, 2023, 02:07:27 AM
My removal (and that of all the other consultants save one) was entirely opportunistic, having nothing to do with me or any of the others except Zak S. It was the only way they could take Zak's name out without him suing them, because now they can just claim that they didn't feel the need to give credit to any of the consultants.

Refusing to credit anyone who contributed and helped shape  the game is a shitass move, regardless of who it is.
Yeah, but they didn't care. Their woke cred was dependent on ejecting the evil Zak. Dumping Pundit was a bonus.

Frankly, if I was a freelancer it would've instantly soured me on EVER doing work for WotC. Who wants to work for someone who'll airbrush you out of the credits the moment you're not in good standing with the Party?

Someone who feels sure THEY will never be purged.
*chuckles grimly* Indeed. And we both understand how well that works out.

"What? I can't be arrested! This is a mistake! Comrade Stalin will clear this up!"

Exploderwizard

#82
October 13, 2023, 01:49:12 PM
Quote from: Ghostmaker on October 13, 2023, 08:02:38 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit on October 12, 2023, 03:43:13 PM
Quote from: Ghostmaker on October 09, 2023, 09:12:54 AM
Quote from: Exploderwizard on October 07, 2023, 10:38:06 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit on October 07, 2023, 02:07:27 AM
My removal (and that of all the other consultants save one) was entirely opportunistic, having nothing to do with me or any of the others except Zak S. It was the only way they could take Zak's name out without him suing them, because now they can just claim that they didn't feel the need to give credit to any of the consultants.

Refusing to credit anyone who contributed and helped shape  the game is a shitass move, regardless of who it is.
Yeah, but they didn't care. Their woke cred was dependent on ejecting the evil Zak. Dumping Pundit was a bonus.

Frankly, if I was a freelancer it would've instantly soured me on EVER doing work for WotC. Who wants to work for someone who'll airbrush you out of the credits the moment you're not in good standing with the Party?

Someone who feels sure THEY will never be purged.
*chuckles grimly* Indeed. And we both understand how well that works out.

"What? I can't be arrested! This is a mistake! Comrade Stalin will clear this up!"

LOL! Usually the first to go are the useful idiots.
Quote from: JonWakeGamers, as a whole, are much like primitive cavemen when confronted with a new game. Rather than \'oh, neat, what\'s this do?\', the reaction is to decide if it\'s a sex hole, then hit it with a rock.

Quote from: Old Geezer;724252At some point it seems like D&D is going to disappear up its own ass.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;766997In the randomness of the dice lies the seed for the great oak of creativity and fun. The great virtue of the dice is that they come without boxed text.

jhkim

#83
October 13, 2023, 03:16:44 PM
Quote from: Ghostmaker on October 09, 2023, 09:12:54 AM
Quote from: Exploderwizard on October 07, 2023, 10:38:06 AM
Refusing to credit anyone who contributed and helped shape  the game is a shitass move, regardless of who it is.

Frankly, if I was a freelancer it would've instantly soured me on EVER doing work for WotC. Who wants to work for someone who'll airbrush you out of the credits the moment you're not in good standing with the Party?

Yeah, failing to give proper credit sucks. Unfortunately, it has a long history in RPGs. TSR was notorious for not giving credit - like not giving Arneson any credit in later editions, and the whole of Star Frontiers game being credited as only "TSR Staff".

Ghostmaker

#84
October 13, 2023, 03:40:16 PM
Quote from: jhkim on October 13, 2023, 03:16:44 PM
Quote from: Ghostmaker on October 09, 2023, 09:12:54 AM
Quote from: Exploderwizard on October 07, 2023, 10:38:06 AM
Refusing to credit anyone who contributed and helped shape  the game is a shitass move, regardless of who it is.

Frankly, if I was a freelancer it would've instantly soured me on EVER doing work for WotC. Who wants to work for someone who'll airbrush you out of the credits the moment you're not in good standing with the Party?

Yeah, failing to give proper credit sucks. Unfortunately, it has a long history in RPGs. TSR was notorious for not giving credit - like not giving Arneson any credit in later editions, and the whole of Star Frontiers game being credited as only "TSR Staff".
No shit, genius. It wasn't confined to RPGs either. The formation of Activision was directly tied to Atari's unwillingness to give its creators any credit either.

What's your point?

Eirikrautha

#85
October 13, 2023, 11:16:04 PM
Quote from: Ghostmaker on October 13, 2023, 03:40:16 PM
Quote from: jhkim on October 13, 2023, 03:16:44 PM
Quote from: Ghostmaker on October 09, 2023, 09:12:54 AM
Quote from: Exploderwizard on October 07, 2023, 10:38:06 AM
Refusing to credit anyone who contributed and helped shape  the game is a shitass move, regardless of who it is.

Frankly, if I was a freelancer it would've instantly soured me on EVER doing work for WotC. Who wants to work for someone who'll airbrush you out of the credits the moment you're not in good standing with the Party?

Yeah, failing to give proper credit sucks. Unfortunately, it has a long history in RPGs. TSR was notorious for not giving credit - like not giving Arneson any credit in later editions, and the whole of Star Frontiers game being credited as only "TSR Staff".
No shit, genius. It wasn't confined to RPGs either. The formation of Activision was directly tied to Atari's unwillingness to give its creators any credit either.

What's your point?
His point is to minimize what happened to Pundit by implication, but without actually stating it directly, so that he can deny any such point when called on it.  Because there's no other reason to bring that up.  It's SOP for him...
"Testosterone levels vary widely among women, just like other secondary sex characteristics like breast size or body hair. If you eliminate anyone with elevated testosterone, it's like eliminating athletes because their boobs aren't big enough or because they're too hairy." -- jhkim

jhkim

#86
October 18, 2023, 12:57:59 AM
Quote from: Ghostmaker on October 13, 2023, 03:40:16 PM
Quote from: jhkim on October 13, 2023, 03:16:44 PM
Yeah, failing to give proper credit sucks. Unfortunately, it has a long history in RPGs. TSR was notorious for not giving credit - like not giving Arneson any credit in later editions, and the whole of Star Frontiers game being credited as only "TSR Staff".

No shit, genius. It wasn't confined to RPGs either. The formation of Activision was directly tied to Atari's unwillingness to give its creators any credit either.

What's your point?

I think there's often a modern tendency to be shocked, outraged, and make current behavior out as an unparalleled crisis.

But if a supposed crisis -- like not crediting contributors -- is a problem that has been around for decades, then it can still be opposed while still understanding how its been an ongoing problem rather than a sudden crisis.

crkrueger

#87
October 18, 2023, 06:35:29 PM
Without a doubt, 2e.  They completely knuckled under to MADD, got rid of Demons and Devils, yes...got rid of them.  They only brought them back renamed because Roger Moore shamed them into doing it.  Created the idiotic Time of Troubles which fucked up the Realms forever just so they could get rid of Assassins and the "Really Evil Gods".

The whole thing was flavorless oatmeal with a cool Thief option.  Then the settings came in, the renamed bad guys came back, Vampire took over as the Dangerous Game, and it became something you could mix with 1e.
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Steven Mitchell

#88
October 18, 2023, 07:08:23 PM
What, no hardcore answer?  It started the first time someone used a method to generate characteristics that produces something better than 3d6, in order, does. :D

Exploderwizard

#89
October 19, 2023, 07:34:51 AM
Quote from: Steven Mitchell on October 18, 2023, 07:08:23 PM
What, no hardcore answer?  It started the first time someone used a method to generate characteristics that produces something better than 3d6, in order, does. :D

Nah. It was during 1st edition with its pussified negetive hit point totals. Real men play dead at 0.
Quote from: JonWakeGamers, as a whole, are much like primitive cavemen when confronted with a new game. Rather than \'oh, neat, what\'s this do?\', the reaction is to decide if it\'s a sex hole, then hit it with a rock.

Quote from: Old Geezer;724252At some point it seems like D&D is going to disappear up its own ass.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;766997In the randomness of the dice lies the seed for the great oak of creativity and fun. The great virtue of the dice is that they come without boxed text.
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