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When did 5e go woke?

Started by RabidWookie, January 07, 2023, 09:19:17 PM

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Horace

#45
January 08, 2023, 10:19:51 PM
Quote from: 3catcircus on January 08, 2023, 09:16:00 PMI would be interested to find out what was said about the innkeeper in Triboar in a 1e/2e/3e product and see what was mentioned.  I'm betting that if *any* hint of the sexual orientation exists in older product, it would have been subtle and easily ignored.
Storm King's Thunder just says that the innkeeper has a wife who went missing several years ago, so her sexuality actually is pretty subtle and easy to ignore. But that was 5 years ago, and things have only gotten worse since then. As far as I can tell, the Forgotten Realms is now a land of love and rainbows and nonsensical social dynamics.

Omega

#46
January 09, 2023, 02:51:00 AM
Quote from: hedgehobbit on January 07, 2023, 09:23:16 PM
Easy, the paragraph in chapter 4 that says, "You don't need to be confined to binary notions of sex and gender."

This set the precedent that the DM cannot veto a player's character concept no matter how much that concept doesn't fit into the game's setting. It was all downhill from there.

Uh. No. Thats not true. It just says you can play any gender or combo. It does not say the DM is forced to accept this.

D&D's had stuff like this in the core books before. Usually squirrelled away in the gameplay example or sometimes the chargen example.

Difference is that wotc was not doing it just for fun. They did it for the agenda.

Omega

#47
January 09, 2023, 02:52:25 AM Last Edit: January 09, 2023, 03:08:25 AM by Omega
Quote from: RabidWookie on January 07, 2023, 09:52:28 PM
Was that the only offending part of the core rulebooks?

It is not offensive so much as just vexing. Even if Pundit thought it was ok. wotc did not put it in there for altruistic reasons.

Omega

#48
January 09, 2023, 03:16:22 AM
Quote from: Armchair Gamer on January 08, 2023, 10:01:31 AM
  The paragraph in Basic/the PHB was the first sign of the game explicitly promoting the New Order, and you could find similar flags and signals in subsequent products, but as I understand it, it didn't start really picking up speed until Waterdeep: Dragon Heist, which made Waterdeep sound like Fantasy Seattle. (The only 5E product I ever owned was Curse of Strahd, and I've sold it off.)

Of the stuff I have.
Curse of Strahd has a few insertions. One so throwaway it might as well not exist.
Tomb of Annihilation has st least two insertions, one of which is another throwaway.
Essentials has the infamous Gnay Gnomes.
Forget which book but one of them added that all elves can now change gender after a long rest. And THAT is in the Adventurers League rules

And so on.

Naburimannu

#49
January 09, 2023, 03:25:51 AM
Quote from: Omega on January 09, 2023, 03:16:22 AM
Forget which book but one of them added that all elves can now change gender after a long rest. And THAT is in the Adventurers League rules

I'm not particularly fond of it, but this is false. What the Tome of Foes added (box on pg 45) is that very rare elves are androgynous, and very rare among those are some who can change their sex after long rests, and then it explicitly says The DM decides whether an elf can manifest this miracle.

Which all does tie into the standard Corellon Larethian lore going back to Deities & Demigods and the original Greyhawk, if I recall correctly.

Omega

#50
January 09, 2023, 05:42:07 PM
Found my book and you are mostly right. According to the entry All elves had this once and lost it. Most clerics of Correlon have it, and about anyone, even Drow, can get it. But is optional and up to the DM.

In the Adventurers League Players Guide taking this feature overrides the PHB+1 rule. And not optional far as I can tell.

3catcircus

#51
January 09, 2023, 08:38:15 PM
Quote from: Horace on January 08, 2023, 10:19:51 PM
Quote from: 3catcircus on January 08, 2023, 09:16:00 PMI would be interested to find out what was said about the innkeeper in Triboar in a 1e/2e/3e product and see what was mentioned.  I'm betting that if *any* hint of the sexual orientation exists in older product, it would have been subtle and easily ignored.
Storm King's Thunder just says that the innkeeper has a wife who went missing several years ago, so her sexuality actually is pretty subtle and easy to ignore. But that was 5 years ago, and things have only gotten worse since then. As far as I can tell, the Forgotten Realms is now a land of love and rainbows and nonsensical social dynamics.

"Subtle" would be using the word "spouse." Specifically stating "wife" is unnecessary unless it's center to the plot (the Evil Cult of Evil is kidnapping "the gay" and extracting their precious bodily flooo-ids to make cologne.)

If my response as an adult with a sick sense of humor to the gratuitous inclusion of something is "That's... That's not necessary," then it really doesn't need to be forced upon younger kids just starting out playing the game (or DMing the game).
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