Quote from: Sable Wyvern;1014261Even if actually was literally built up from the basic framework of 5E, I wouldn't recommend discarding it for that reason, as what's built on top of a few fundamental basics has gone in a very different direction.

'Inducement' means an attractive feature, something that would motivate me to want it.
Lack of 'inducement' doesn't mean it's discarded.
Others here mentioned it being based on 5e... perhaps that's not accurate?

Quote from: Simlasa;1014355Others here mentioned it being based on 5e... perhaps that's not accurate?

I don't see it as being particularly accurate. There isn't anything "5e" about it, and while it has many D&D trappings in the form of names like cleric, druid, paladin, ranger, wizard, sorcerer, and fighter all conforming roughly to what a D&D player is familiar with, they don't play exactly the same way. Specifically, in D&D you usually start in a class and that defines both what you are and (generally) what you will become. SotDL paths show you where you are now, but they all build on other paths to see where you will be at the various levels (Novice/Expert/Master) and there are almost no restrictions on how you can combine them (although some blend better than others). SotDL uses a profession system closer to early D&D rather than the skill system of later D&D. SotDL spells are not Vancian slots, they are more like D&D's spell-like abilities with each available x times per day (where x is based on each known spell's rank and the charcter's Power), and characters typically know only a small number of spells, never getting the massive versatility seen in D&D spellcasters.

Quote from: Cave Bear;1014105Fuck off, Pundit. You haven't even read the game.

I don't need to read the game to make an analysis of the question at hand (which is to say, "what happened?").
I didn't read the game, so I'm not saying the game sucked, or it ruled, or anything else about the game. I'm saying that from a market standpoint, it bet on competing with 5e, like several other games did, and they all lost because 5e ended up being very successful.

Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1014143That same logic would make your Albion book a real-world rethemer heartbreaker for D&D 1E.

First, Albion isn't even an RPG. It's a setting book.

Second, I didn't try to market it as anti-anything. On the contrary, I tried to market it mainly to OSR people, but made some effort to promote it in 5e circles too, because as a setting it can be used with 5e.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1014645I don't need to read the game to make an analysis of the question at hand (which is to say, "what happened?").
I didn't read the game, so I'm not saying the game sucked, or it ruled, or anything else about the game. I'm saying that from a market standpoint, it bet on competing with 5e, like several other games did, and they all lost because 5e ended up being very successful.

You got paid to be a consultant for 5E.

SotDL seems to be plenty successful in PDF sales. It has several products that hang out in the best sellers, and it has dozens of products. It's not D&D (5e or any other), but it has certainly done well for a small operation.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1014080Wasn't this one of those games that were pushed as a kind of anti-5e reaction heartbreaker? If so, that would explain what happened: it failed, 5e succeeded.

Yes, 5e won if the competition is about having an average idiot playing it. In food business it's MacDonalds, in music it's Justin Bieber, etc.

To me SotDL is the only RPG that made class-based system to not suck.

What I would want from SotDL is to be even more distant from D&D. I'd want to see a S&S version for this. Humans vs sorcerers vs undead vs lizard people.

Quote from: jux;1015225Yes, 5e won if the competition is about having an average idiot playing it. In food business it's MacDonalds, in music it's Justin Bieber, etc.

To me SotDL is the only RPG that made class-based system to not suck.

What I would want from SotDL is to be even more distant from D&D. I'd want to see a S&S version for this. Humans vs sorcerers vs undead vs lizard people.

Oh, so that Class system over there suxx but this Class system here is meaningful 'n' deep 'n' groundbreaking.....

Heard it all before. It's bollocks. Try playing a game without a Class system and you might be up to speed with the cutting edge of game design of the late 1970s or so.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1014080Wasn't this one of those games that were pushed as a kind of anti-5e reaction heartbreaker? If so, that would explain what happened: it failed, 5e succeeded.

Not really anti-5e.  From the foreword and other articles, just seems like Schwalb wanted his own game not bound to WotC canon that he could use for Warhammer-like games (without being bound to GW either).

So we get a game that resembles 5e somewhat, but is more like WFRP in setting.  With regards to picking the various types of careers as you level, it seems a lot more like Dragon Age to me than 5e, even though I think there's a lot of 5e-like ideas in SotDL (why wouldn't there be, Schwalb worked on both).

He worked for FFG, worked for Black Industries (through Green Ronin), worked for Green Ronin, worked for WotC, worked for Monte Cook.  Now he's got his own company making his own game that probably has a little bit of lots of things he's designed or been exposed to if you dug through it.

I don't think it was designed to be the anti-5e anymore than 13th Age was designed to be the anti-4e.

Quote from: TrippyHippy;1015334Oh, so that Class system over there suxx but this Class system here is meaningful 'n' deep 'n' groundbreaking.....

I don't think it's "meaningful", "deep", or even "groundbreaking" (as I said it reminds me a lot of Dragon Age but with more freedom).  But, I would argue, it does seem to work differently than the type of multi-classing we've seen in WotC flavors of D&D, and of course much different than TSR flavors of multi or dual classing.

So, working differently, some people obviously will like it better, some won't.

I thought the system seemed interesting and fine but I was more interested in mining the setting for ideas.

Quote from: Voros;1015413I thought the system seemed interesting and fine but I was more interested in mining the setting for ideas.

That's not going to be easy because the setting information is really spread out among a great many small PDFs. There are some that highlight specific regions and others that highlight specific cultures (Ancestries) or religions, but you might end up picking up a lot of material to get to what you want. I liked the material though, so I have picked up most of it. With two exceptions, I haven't bought the adventures, and from what I hear some are great and others are trash (no, I don't recall which are which right now). From what I've been told, some of the adventures do add in bits of setting too.

I got a bunch of stuff from a Bundle of Holding. Read the rules set first to get a feel for it but haven't dug into the setting and adventures yet.

In that case, enjoy! I did find that the prices on the various PDFs made them easy to pick-up on a whim. That's not to say that they're inexpensive--you may pay $3 for something that's only 6 pages long. I'd have to say it was easy to lose track of how much I spent since only a few of the purchases were > $5. Thankfully, I don't regret making the purchases (unlike some other games that I've bought) since the material came gradually and I could have stopped at any time. IMO, it's a bit different to games where every new bite is $35+ (FFG is a big one here).

Quote from: Cave Bear;1014671You got paid to be a consultant for 5E.

Yes. I helped make it successful.