Elves again: Nothing about elves seems condusive to their being forest-dwellers or nature-lovers or whatever-the-fuck tree-hugging shits they're supposed to be.

Notice secret doors? In the woods. Riiiiiiight.

You don't need mechanics for every thematic element, but I'd rather they at least didn't contradict themselves!

Quote from: ColonelHardissonTo touch upon the elf side-discussion, another couple of "magic deer" for me are both D&D elf-tropes - D&D elves being short and wispy, and being mortal (even if long-lived). Something about both tropes bugs me, and I've always assumed the elves in my various campaign worlds are more Tolkienish - man-sized or taller and immortal unless killed.

I'm the exact opposite...I guess I see elves as the fae, living in the woods frolicking in the moonlight, happy-go-lucky, trickster fairy-tale type.

Hacking in most cyberpunk games (can anyone who's worked in systems administration or computer security tell me what's it like in Shadowrun 3rd?)

Any setting with a monotheistic religion that's a thinly veiled Christianity and is the bad guys.  But that's not just with RPGs

Quote from: SigmundI'm the exact opposite...I guess I see elves as the fae, living in the woods frolicking in the moonlight, happy-go-lucky, trickster fairy-tale type.

I wouldn't say "exact opposite." Let me quote Tolkien:

Quote from: The Hobbit, Chapter 8: Flies and Spiders...and at the head of a long line of feasters sat a woodland king with a crown of leaves upon his golden hair, very much as Bombur had described the figure in his dream. The elvish folk were passing bowls from hand to hand and across the fires, and some were harping and many were singing. Their gleaming hair was twined with flowers[...]
The feasting people were Wood-elves, of course. These are not wicked folk. If they have a fault it is a distrust of strangers. Though their magic was strong, even in those days they were wary. They differed from the High Elves of the West, and were more dangerous and less wise. For most of them (together with their scattered relations in the hills and mountains) were descended from the ancient tribes that never went to Faerie in the West.[...]In the Wide World the Wood-elves lingered in the twilight of our Sun and Moon but loved best the stars; and they wandered in the great forests that grew tall in lands that are now lost. They dwelt most often by the edges of the woods, from which they could escape at times to hunt, or to ride and run over the open lands by moonlight or starlight; and after the coming of Men they took ever more and more to the gloaming and the dusk. Still elves they were and remain, and that is Good People.[...]In fact the subjects of the king mostly lived and hunted in the open woods, and had houses or huts on the ground and in the branches. The beeches were their favourite trees. The king's cave was his palace, and the strong place of his treasure, and the fortress of his people against their enemies.

Bolded emphasis mine.

Add to this how the elves in the Hobbit joked with the dwarves and Bilbo as they walked into Rivendell, and its seems that the Wood Elves were pretty happy-go-lucky, and had a bit of the trickster in them. All of the elves that have important roles in the Lord of the Rings are not the Wood Elves (even Legolas was a Sinda), so we never get a good look at these "more dangerous and less wise" elves in Tolkien, but they seem a lot more like the ones in fairy tales.

Quote from: beejazzElves again: Nothing about elves seems condusive to their being forest-dwellers or nature-lovers or whatever-the-fuck tree-hugging shits they're supposed to be.

Notice secret doors? In the woods. Riiiiiiight.

You don't need mechanics for every thematic element, but I'd rather they at least didn't contradict themselves!

They notice things we don't. The same perception that can spot a nesting bird deep in the crown of an oak can also spot a secret door. It's the sort of tool that's good in any environment.

QuoteNotice secret doors? In the woods. Riiiiiiight.

Have you never watched Princess Bride?

Quote from: ColonelHardissonI wouldn't say "exact opposite." Let me quote Tolkien:



Bolded emphasis mine.

Add to this how the elves in the Hobbit joked with the dwarves and Bilbo as they walked into Rivendell, and its seems that the Wood Elves were pretty happy-go-lucky, and had a bit of the trickster in them. All of the elves that have important roles in the Lord of the Rings are not the Wood Elves (even Legolas was a Sinda), so we never get a good look at these "more dangerous and less wise" elves in Tolkien, but they seem a lot more like the ones in fairy tales.

True. This is more how I see elves...at least how they should be, and will be if I ever get around to actually putting my homebrew setting to paper.

Quote from: mythusmageThey notice things we don't. The same perception that can spot a nesting bird deep in the crown of an oak can also spot a secret door. It's the sort of tool that's good in any environment.

I don't buy it.  I would see a Dwarf with that ability in a constructed environment.  

Elves, for all their perceptive abilities, would have no cultural identity with a masonry wall.  Sure, if it's a tree-limb built structure made by Elves, I might be able to buy it.

Just because you can notice minute details doesn't mean that your brain can process that the minute details in question mean that there's a door in a wall when you've trained all your life to interpret minute details to mean a bird's nest in the crook of a tree.

Quote from: ColonelHardissonAdd to this how the elves in the Hobbit joked with the dwarves and Bilbo as they walked into Rivendell, and its seems that the Wood Elves were pretty happy-go-lucky, and had a bit of the trickster in them. All of the elves that have important roles in the Lord of the Rings are not the Wood Elves (even Legolas was a Sinda), so we never get a good look at these "more dangerous and less wise" elves in Tolkien, but they seem a lot more like the ones in fairy tales.

Sindar are "wood elves" are they not? I always interpreted the differences in tone between The Hobbit and LotR (particularly the parts following the meeting in Rivendell) as due to the different temperaments of Bilbo and Frodo, whose perceptions formed the basis of the portrayals. (In fact if I recall correctly, The Hobbit is supposed, in a sort of conceit, to have been written by Bilbo; not sure about LotR.) Thus Bilbo's experiences and temperament were a world apart from Frodo's--it'd be like comparing the views toward the French of a British country squire who came of age in the 1880's to a youth who suffered through Paeschendale or Dunkirk. "Bilbo's" portrayal of Gandalf in The Hobbit is also a lot lighter than the way Gandalf is shown in LotR.

I have always thought that the cahnge in mood was due more to the serious nature of the situation in lotr. The dwarves in The Hobbit may have felt pretty serious about going to the lonly mountain and getting their treasure back, but it really doesn't compare to the heavy shit going down in the War of the Ring.

as an aside I preferThe Hobbit.

Quote from: Elliot WilenSindar are "wood elves" are they not?

No. Sindar are the "grey elves," the ones that made most of the journey towards the Undying Lands, but didn't make the journey across the ocean. They were not as wise or learened as those who made the journey across the ocean (the Noldor and Vanyar) but were more wise and learned than the Silvan Elves. The Silvan Elves were the Wood Elves. They were the ones that didn't make the journey at all, refusing the call. These are the ones referred to in the Hobbit, except for their King, who, like his son Legolas, was a Sinda elf.

Ah now that you mention it, that does ring a bell from reading the Silmarillion long ago.

Quote from: VellorianI don't buy it.  I would see a Dwarf with that ability in a constructed environment.  

Elves, for all their perceptive abilities, would have no cultural identity with a masonry wall.  Sure, if it's a tree-limb built structure made by Elves, I might be able to buy it.

Just because you can notice minute details doesn't mean that your brain can process that the minute details in question mean that there's a door in a wall when you've trained all your life to interpret minute details to mean a bird's nest in the crook of a tree.

But elves aren't human. Elves don't necessarily process information the way humans do. We are very good at spotting patterns. Elves are very good at spotting that which is out of place.

Quote from: mythusmageBut elves aren't human. Elves don't necessarily process information the way humans do. We are very good at spotting patterns. Elves are very good at spotting that which is out of place.

...but they lack the cultural knowledge to know what "looks out of place" in a manufactured environment because they come from an "au natural" environment.  Thus, they shouldn't get the bonus even if they do "think differently."

EDIT: Apple Inc. Elves.  It just fits!    (Apple's advertising campaign was "think different.")

Quote from: Caesar SlaadAnyway, my "magic deer" is the Virus in Traveller: The New Era. A virus that physically transforms at a distance at once compiles modern day naivete about computer viruses with placing ill disguised handwavey magic in a hard-ish SF game.

The virus is just software isn't it, where does it "physically transform" it's been a while since I read T:TNE but I can't recal anything other than the virus being an adaptive program, which was able to rewrite it's own code and hence it adapted into being the various weird and dangerous versions around by NE year one.

Edit: Reread the stuff on the virus from T:TNE last night and I see the issues you talk about, it's like it's some silcon based lifeform, reburning chips, I think I just ditiched that and used it as a normal AI, you don't seem to get any mention of that sort of thing in some of the later products. The Path of Tears has a section on the Virus that makes no mention of it.

Anyway Traveller is "hardly" hard sci-fi what with Psionics and gravity plating and inertial dampers  on starships. 2300AD (aka Traveller 2300) on the other hand....