Quote from: hgjsThe Sidereals in Exalted.
 
There are many things in games that I think could have been done better, or that I just don't like, but it's nothing to get worked up over. Except for some reason I can't even think about the Sidereals without getting angry.

Yeah, I don't know why they made the Sidereals playable. They always seemed like a meta-game representations of the ST. The Sidereals exist (although nobody knows they do) to patch plot holes.
*Why did my uber-artifact just dissapear?"
"You never had it!"

Quote from: droogI'm sorry. The explanations you provide only increase the lameness.

Oh well. I had a lot of fun playing. I'm just sad you missed that all the pre-tense was a joke in the first place...

Quote from: KrakaJakOh well. I had a lot of fun playing. I'm just sad you missed that all the pre-tense was a joke in the first place...

I don't think droog is alone. I've met many WoD players who seemed to be taking the whole thing WAY too seriously. Many more so than DnD players in my experience. Has completely turned me off to what I used to think was one of the cooler and more sinister/scary undead villians.

Aberrant - most of the Terragen.
World of Darkness - For some reason, the victim from the first edition Diablerie module always irritated me and it stayed with me.  
D&D - Forgotten Realms - SpellFire.
D&D - SpellJammer - The way helms worked.  One PC was bascially chained to the damn thing.  That was annoying from a player and DM perspective.
D&D - Gnomes.  The basic gnome is fine, the whole suicidal inventor thing they got in some worlds always irritated me.  It never fit a long lived peaceful group.  It always worked better for me if it was short lived violent groups like goblins.
D&D - Elves.  Decide.  If the points say they are balanced with humans, then they are balanced with humans.  If you want an uber race, give them an ecl and the stats to back it up.  If its only a cultural superiority thing, that's fine too but don't start adding in wierd sleeping, temperature resistance or any other bullshit.

Elves are one of my "magic deer" in almost every setting.

Let's take a look at typical core D&D elves (and then place them in your oh-so-generic D&D setting of choice to make this relevant to the original topic).  They reach adulthood at 110 years of age.  110-freakin-years, compared to 15 for humans.  How long of a period of helplessness is that?  How long are baby elves breastfed?  How the fuck could a species survive where they didn't reach sexual maturity for 110 years?

Yes, these things bother me, but the true Magic Deer here is all the conceptual gymnastics people undergo in order to justify something that can't be matched with the human lifespan. Reaching adulthood at 110 years just doesn't work, no matter how much "it's magic" crap you throw at the idea.  Admit that it's an inhernetly unviable idea and move on.

Ah.  It was a short rant, but it felt good.

Quote from: Wandering MonsterLet's take a look at typical core D&D elves (and then place them in your oh-so-generic D&D setting of choice to make this relevant to the original topic).  They reach adulthood at 110 years of age.  110-freakin-years, compared to 15 for humans.  How long of a period of helplessness is that?  How long are baby elves breastfed?  How the fuck could a species survive where they didn't reach sexual maturity for 110 years?

That particular albatross I kicked to the curb.

Assuming that age of maturity varies linearly with longevity seemed to me to be a bit off.

I use a different formula and came up with my own age breakdowns. Doesn't really affect the game that much (the typical RPG campaign is a blink of the eye for an elf), but it sits much better with my suspension of disbeleif.

Point based character creation.
Mana.
I know they aren't setting details, but they just bug me... soooooooo much!

Quote from: RPGPunditYou must not care much for Call of Cthulhu either, then...

RPGPundit

You know, I like CofC. The hopelessness works for me in the context of that game. I think it's the mixture of it with elfy welfy that kills it for me. It's like ketchup and ice cream, or porn, shot on the island of misfit toys. It might be to the taste of some but, it's not for me.

Quote from: AosYou know, I like CofC. The hopelessness works for me in the context of that game. I think it's the mixture of it with elfy welfy that kills it for me. It's like ketchup and ice cream, or porn, shot on the island of misfit toys. It might be to the taste of some but, it's not for me.

*pause*

    Damn you, now I am envisioning a totally *wrong* session of Puppetland there. :eek:

To touch upon the elf side-discussion, another couple of "magic deer" for me are both D&D elf-tropes - D&D elves being short and wispy, and being mortal (even if long-lived). Something about both tropes bugs me, and I've always assumed the elves in my various campaign worlds are more Tolkienish - man-sized or taller and immortal unless killed.

I agree, Hardisson. I remember looking at that picture in the front of the PHB1e and disliking how the human was the biggest (except maybe the half-orc?) person.

Quote from: McrowExalted, basically the whole setting just bothers there hell out of me. I just don't see how playing what mounts to gods would be any fun.

I think you've summed up my own feelings about Exalted perfectly.

Quote from: Abyssal MawAs a point of 'realism' or whatever- sure. Memorized spells seem ridiculous. (Although they have changed it into 'prepared' spells now)....

I don't understand why people have a problem with the 'realism' of the D&D system of 'memorized spells' (or 'prepared spells').  Why would a 'power points' system (or whatever) be more 'realistic'?  

The system is based on Vance's writings, and the system seems adequatey 'realistic' (in the sense of maintaining a sense verisimilitude vis-a-vis the rest of the world Vance describes) in his Dying Earth stories.


(I agree with the rest of your post btw.)

I think that everything that TSR did to the 'Known World'/'Mystara' that advanced the timeline beyond 1000 AC -- and especially the 'Wrath of the Immortals' -- was horrible.  This was my favourite TSR-produced setting, and metaplot idiocy ruined it.

I try only to think of the 1000 AC Gazetteers when I think about Mystara.  The other stuff just depresses me.

Quote from: AkrasiaI don't understand why people have a problem with the 'realism' of the D&D system of 'memorized spells' (or 'prepared spells').  Why would a 'power points' system (or whatever) be more 'realistic'?  

The system is based on Vance's writings, and the system seems adequatey 'realistic' (in the sense of maintaining a sense verisimilitude vis-a-vis the rest of the world Vance describes) in his Dying Earth stories.

Yeah, I thought Vance had an innovative and unique way of rationalizing why wizards needed books, and why spells had to be "re-read" after being used. As I recall, the reading of a spell imprinted the power of the spell on the caster's mind, and that power was exhausted upon the casting of the spell. Only someone who had practiced and studied over time could "expand" his mind to accept more and more powerful spells. This reminded me a lot of Roger Zelazny's "Amber" books. The Pattern that had to be walked by the royal family of Amber went from being a temporal construct to one that had psychic and spiritual powers, almost a living thing itself. The whole concept seems really useful and easy to adjudicate in the context of D&D (and RPGs in general, in my opinion). Power points and the like are no more realistic, also in my opinion, but can be just as useful as Vancian magic in an RPG context.