Surely we've got a few Eberron fans on the boards? Anyone else disappointed as of late about the Eberron books? CW Richeson and I spoke a while ago about this, back when Secrets of Xendrik and Faiths of Eberron had just come out. It seems like Eb might've shot its wad a bit early with a really strong Player's Guide, and mostly weak supplements since (about half and half properly, now that I count it out).

Magic of..., City of Towers, Dragonmarked and Races of... were pretty good, but they're overwhelmed by blah supplements like the Explorer's Handbook, Secrets of Xendrik, Faiths of Eberron, Five Nations, and now Secrets of Sarlona.  I've heard the adventures are somewhat badly done as well, though I haven't played them personally (other guys in my group have). Even in the stronger supplements it seems like they skimp on either fluff or crunch. I recently purchased Secrets of Sarlona, and while the fluff is OK (but overly repetitive), the crunch is god awful, of a low quality that simply wouldn't fly in say, the FR product line. I'm kinda pissed off about this, because I really do like Eberron, but it feels like the more releases WotC makes, the more adulterated the setting gets with lame and uninteresting crap.

/end vent

I don't know.  I really liked the Explorers Handbook and Five Nations.  But I didn't care for either Magic of Eberron or Sharn: City of Towers.  It sounds like we have opposite experiences.

I haven't yet picked up Secrets of Sarlona and I don't plan on buying Secrets of Xendrik (just because I can't imagine what would be in it that I want.  I do almost all my campaigning on Khorvaire; with Sarlona at least it might give me some good ideas for Inspired plots and goals with respect to the continent).

I also really liked Races of Eberron, and I guess that's an unpopular choice too, though.

You're trying to say that they were ever not shit??

RPGPundit

Iron Kingdoms is everything Eberron should have been, almost.

Quote from: GRIMIron Kingdoms is everything Eberron should have been, almost.

I enjoy IK quite a bit--I wonder if it's true that Privateer is scaling back on the tabletop side of things?

Eberron never really pulled me in. WOTC should have dropped Greyhawk and the Forgotten Realms completely from 3E rather than totally frakking them up, and focused solely on Eberron as the new setting for 3E.

Quote from: Zachary The FirstI enjoy IK quite a bit--I wonder if it's true that Privateer is scaling back on the tabletop side of things?

There's not much room for them to scale back on the RPG side, but then few, quality releases is sometimes better.

I imagine the dollar being so weak is kicking their arse on export.

Thanks for posting this, Pseudo.  You and I see eye to eye on the Eberron supplements, and I was just about to buy this one after someone told me it actually describes Sarlona in full detail.  I'll have to reconsider that, again.

I think the lower quality comes from WOTC working harder to market brand names than to ensure quality.  I really feel like WOTC simply goes about their entire RPG creation process in a substantially different way than other publishers.

Secrets of Sarlona isn't a complete waste. The fluff is repetitious, but there's a few neat ideas buried in it. The tundra area could be a really neat setting. The main problem is how repetitive it is, especially the Riedran and Syrkarn sections. A large chunk of the book is taken up with providing archetypal locations for Sarlonan adventures, like a bastion city and an ogre village, and there's a good justification for why each one is included, but the locations themselves are rather blah. They're typical locations in the same way my convenience store is.

The best parts are the Adar and tundra sections, both of which are really cool and could be settings for entire campaigns in themselves. Unfortunately, even these sections are drug down by lame crunch. The various Eberron books sometimes seem to have a competition for "Worst D&D feat possible" and so far, Secrets of Sarlona's "Altitude Adjustment" is well ahead, even beating out Secrets of Xendrik's "Mysterious Magic" for sheer suck.

The book is a five out of ten. It's best parts are "workmanlike". They flesh out Sarlona enough that a lazy DM wouldn't need to do much work to depict life in Sarlona. Its worst parts are its crunch, which is about as good as stuff you'd find on a geocities website run by a guy calling himself "d0\/g d\/nge0nz"

Quote from: C.W.RichesonThanks for posting this, Pseudo.  You and I see eye to eye on the Eberron supplements, and I was just about to buy this one after someone told me it actually describes Sarlona in full detail.  I'll have to reconsider that, again.

I think the lower quality comes from WOTC working harder to market brand names than to ensure quality.  I really feel like WOTC simply goes about their entire RPG creation process in a substantially different way than other publishers.

Dungeonscape is getting good reviews, at least mechanically, and FR has had a number of strong supplements recently (or so I've been told). It seems like Eberron is becoming the red-headed stepchild of D&D, with newer writers assigned to it as a testing ground before they "graduate" to bigger projects. Every book seems like it's written by someone entirely new, with no one sticking around to release quality supp after quality supp. Even Keith Baker doesn't seem to have anything to do with it anymore, unfortunately (since the supps he does work on are some of the highest quality ones).

Quote from: RockViperEberron never really pulled me in. WOTC should have dropped Greyhawk and the Forgotten Realms completely from 3E rather than totally frakking them up, and focused solely on Eberron as the new setting for 3E.

To me, 3e really went a long way to rehabilitating FR from the godawful state it was in during 2e.

On the other hand, it really didn't do anything for Greyhawk.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditYou're trying to say that they were ever not shit??

RPGPundit

OMG ROBOTZORS IN D&D HATERZ!:cyborg:

Eberron started out with an interesting premise: wrap setting around the rules, rather than the other way around. Given, some aspects of the D&D rules are pretty wacky (in terms of versimilitude) - but Eberron posits an interesting explanation for that D&D "wackyness" like why it's up to the PCs to save the world (all the high-level NPCs got killed in the war, etc)

As for the supplements, I've seen reviews go all over the place in terms of score. I like my 5 Nations and Races Of...but to each their own.

I do agree about the theory of Eberron being the proving ground for new WotC writers. Just keep Keith Baker and James Wyatt on it, please!

Well, at least "Forge of War" is written by Wolfgang Baur. he ain´t no newcomer.

Bruce Cordell also did a god job with grasp of emerald claw, and Secrets of Xéndrik is hated only by completists, who wanted a thourough description instead of a toolbox.

@Pundit: Greyhawk is treated well  by Paizo. Greyhawk is more popular than ever, and there´s quite some Greyhawk in the rules supplements. Many PrCs are Greyhawk-specific. WotC did Castle Greyhawk.

Quote from: RPGPunditTo me, 3e really went a long way to rehabilitating FR from the godawful state it was in during 2e.

On the other hand, it really didn't do anything for Greyhawk.

RPGPundit

 Greyhawk?

 Its like that setting doesn't exist any more.
 All I've seen is that one thin Greyhawk Gazetteer - and nothing else in 5 years.
 If I'm wrong about that - please educate me.

When D&D3.0 /3.5 first came out , I'd thought I would give it a try  - but I wanted to use the Greyhawk setting.  Big load of NOTHING for me to use Greyhawk-wise. So, I lost interest.

 As for Eberron - it could be they just ran out of creative steam and inspiration.  They blew their creative wad with the first 3 or 4 books.

- E.W.C.

Quote from: Settembrini@Pundit: Greyhawk is treated well  by Paizo. Greyhawk is more popular than ever, and there´s quite some Greyhawk in the rules supplements. Many PrCs are Greyhawk-specific. WotC did Castle Greyhawk.

I don't think the rules themselves were that much better fit for it than AD&D though. Maybe that's what RPGPundit is saying?  Greyhawk typically has had a lower power end than, for example FR. Sure there were the few NPCs that were actually munched out PCs from Gary's own campaign. But largely it was a place where 10th level characters really stood out. FR though 10th level was roughly the backup squire to a nobody noble.

I see 3e as having done more for cleaning up the high-end of the D&D power scale than for the low end.  It wasn't so much that 3e dissed Greyhawk as it just wasn't really aimed there, and it shows in the WotC product line.