I find it interesting that most of the default settings for D&D and other such fantasy games assume that the humanoids (orcs, goblins, hobgoblins, etc) are all firmly outside of the realm of civilization; so in a big fantasy city you will not find goblins among the humans, elves, dwarves, and halflings.

If D&D 4e really wants to emphasize the "points of light" thing they could take a page out of the old Port Blacksand in the Titan setting, and a few other such settings (wilderlands, etc) and have it be common in at least a few kingdoms that goblins or orcs (uneasily) interact in civilization as much as any other race.

I've personally always found that much more interesting, anyways.

RPGPundit

Yeah, I love the rough-and-tumble feel that locations like Blacksand, Khare and the City State have.

That said, I don't see any reason why Wizard's shouldn't present such environments as part of the 4E package. I'm hoping PoL will focus on the differences between civilisation and barabarism over the frankly tiresome racial/alignment regional divisions that have characterised so much setting material in the past.


After all, wretched hives of scum and villainy are exactly the sort of places where adventurers should be hanging out.

Arrowflight has Orcs in the cities, as well as the Orcish warbands in the wilderness. One of our favourite NPC allies was an Orc and we played up the characters' differing reactions to her.  They've gotta interact sometime  or they're just more faceless goons. When the NPC ended up on the opposing side to the PC's they played it so emo.

Quote from: RPGPunditIf D&D 4e really wants to emphasize the "points of light" thing they could take a page out of the old Port Blacksand in the Titan setting, and a few other such settings (wilderlands, etc) and have it be common in at least a few kingdoms that goblins or orcs (uneasily) interact in civilization as much as any other race.
RPGPundit

especially with (apparently) tieflings being a standard race.  otherwise, now players can be subject to prejudice not just by playing half-orcs, but now half-demonic outsiders as well (or whatever).

many more cities should look more like the the interior of the mos eisley cantina than a nordic ale-hall, species-wise.

Must be why I took to Eberron so quickly.

That's the way it's always been un my homebrew anyhow.

In most places in our world, you have Humans, Dwarves, Gnomes, and possibly Halflings able to interact in cities without too much issue (though the Halflings sometimes run into some mockery or teasing).

In the second tier, you have Elves, which can interact, but are often viewed with suspicion, both because of their unnaturally long lives and the fact that a faction of them tried to wipe out humanity about 1000 years ago.

On the bottom rung, you have Ogres, who are often hired out for brute labor or as bodyguards and Goblins, who are seen as worthless scavengers at best and varmits at worst.  Lizardmen also are sometimes found in cities, but are found distasteful/repulsive by most common people, and so are very closely watched and segregated.

Quillbacks (Spineys) are a step above Goblins in terms of respectability and perception--barely.

Quote from: beebermany more cities should look more like the the interior of the mos eisley cantina than a nordic ale-hall, species-wise.

That's exactly one of the things I hated the most about the D&D movie.
What the hell were half of those thingies?

Quote from: dsivisMust be why I took to Eberron so quickly.

Indeed. I thought it was a nice touch in the setting. I'm still hoping for a goblinoid core race in 4th.