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I just had a look at the MRQ Deluxe book and I can't tell at a glance what the fundemental problems are that people have complained about.

Yes, I'm aware of the badly-written parry rule. I can understand people being pissed off at poor editing, and issues with opposed skill tests (even though the deluxe book supposedly fixes a lot of that).

I can understand the issues with production quality. This isn't a pleasant book to handle or look at.

But what I remember hearing about the game that really turned me off was stuff about how Mongoose was copying Feat-like ideas or GURPS-like advantages instead of having game effects develop "naturally" out of existing characteristic/skill system. And I didn't see any of that.

So, again, what's the problem? Is it the Professions part of chargen that I've seen mentioned in a few reviews? (How restrictive are Professions? Do they restrict character development after chargen?)

Pointers to threads discussing this in greater detail would be equally helpful.

MRQ could have been released with no  noticeable production, editing or rules issues.

  It still would have been missing that little Chaosium logo on the box. And these names on or in the covers: Greg Stafford, Sandy Peterson, Steve Perrin.


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Ah, I found the problem: Legendary Abilities (http://mrqwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Improving_Adventurers_SRD). Seem like they may not be so bad, as they're restricted to high ability levels, but then...there goes the neighborhood: from Mongoose themselves to third party publishers (http://paizo.com/store/downloads/roninArts/runeQuest/v5748btpy7wxy), there's a bunch of legendary abilities tumbling out, just like GURPS advantages or (presumably) D&D Feats. No game effect it seems can simply be a product of the basic system; somebody is always going to be demanding a special ability that breaks the rules somehow.

for me the problem was all i saw were bunch of little skinny books that seemed way overpriced. I couldnt get past that.

My days of impulse buying in this hobby are long gone.

I'm a long time RQ player (since the late 70's) and I really don't have the problems with MRQ that many have noted.  I noticed the same issues as Elliot but I don't think the addition of legendary abilities diminishes the game at all and a GM can certainly disallow them without affecting playability.  The parry/dodge rules also need some minor tweaks as well but overall I am pleased with the system and my players have responded favorably.

There was also a lot of criticism about how Mongoose handled certain Gloranthan issues but I'm not a hardcore Glorantha-phile so I can't really say whether that is justified or not.

On the other hand I can see where adapting MRQ to the OGL market has caused some people to compare it unfavorably to DnD.  The upcoming spellbook will probably make that worse since it is very reminiscent of a DnD spellbook.

All that aside though, it is nice to have new Runequest material coming out after all these years and it revitalized my game so despite some minor criticisms I think Mongoose deserves some praise as well.

Quote from: The Evil DMfor me the problem was all i saw were bunch of little skinny books that seemed way overpriced. I couldnt get past that.

My days of impulse buying in this hobby are long gone.

I'm with you on this one, all the books were around 90 pages and cost around $30 bucks each which put a dent in my wallet.  I think this problem is somewhat resolved though since at this point Mongoose is publishing the main rulebook, companion, and monster book as the Runequest Deluxe compilation for $44.95.  Still pricy but it is more in line with other RPG's than the $90+ I had to shell out to get all three of the core books.

Thin overpriced books with rules which seemed to been written by someone who played 2nd Edition a couple of times but could not understand the strike rank system, nor the resistance table.  

Most of the rest of the book is a partial cut and paste job from 3rd edition.  The occupation system is pointless and bland as all it does is scatter around a few +5% to skills and the combat system has been nerfed into absurdity.

Quote from: Elliot WilenI just had a look at the MRQ Deluxe book and I can't tell at a glance what the fundemental problems are that people have complained about.

Try this for size: the core rulebook is a badly-edited, expensive hardback which (as you noted) is painful to look at, and is woefully incomplete - especially compared with the 2nd edition rulebook, which had a similar page count and is an absolutely stunning example of good presentation. They claimed that the incompleteness of the core rulebook was to keep the price down, but £15 for a 120 page book is simply ridiculous, regardless of whether it's a hardcover (and surely if price was an issue they'd print it in softcover?). They're putting out a Deluxe Edition now with the core rulebook and the companion edited together into one rulebook, so they've at least learned that lesson, but there's still a ridiculous amount of rulebook splurge going on.

There's also the issue of the playtesting - this is anecdotal evidence, I admit, but the number of playtesters online who say "Mongoose basically ignored all of our feedback, especially with the parry rules and the broken maths for skills over 100%" is striking, and I've never seen anyone say "Bullshit, I was a playtester and I think Mongoose paid a reasonable amount of attention to our ideas".

Furthermore, the credits to the core rulebook make no mention of the original designers of the game - and Legendary Abilities aside, MRQ owes a hell of a lot to them - and Matt Sprange has showed a total inability to understand what the problem is with it. Steve Perrin actually had to call him out on tBP in order to get some royalties from some text in the core rules which Perrin wrote.

To anybody who hasn't had any experience of previous editions of RQ - especially RQ2, which showed how you could present the rules concisely and clearly in a reasonably-priced 120 page book - MRQ is simply going to be Just Another Game - perhaps a decent game, if you look past the really bad presentation, or perhaps not. To anyone who actually knows what RQ used to be and what RQ deserves, it's an utter travesty.

It's incredibly disappointing, especially since Paranoia XP proved that Mongoose could do rereleases right: it showed plenty of respect for the source material (and was designed by Allen Varney, an individual who met the approval of the original designers, was and is good friends with them, and showed an excellent understanding of why Paranoia was great), provided the experience Paranoia old-timers know and love and at the same time managed to grab the attention of a new generation of gamers. I am hoping that with Traveller they'll learn from their mistakes; since they're working closely with Miller I assume so.

Quote from: aranywthThin overprice books with rules which seemed to been written by someone who played 2nd Edition a couple of times but could understand the strike rank system, nor the resistance table.  

Most of the rest of the book is a partial cut and paste job from 3rd edition.  The occupation system is pointless and bland as all it does is scatter around a few +5% to skills and the combat system has been nerfed into absurdity.

This is another issue with MRQ, many 2nd and 3rd edition players compare the new system unfavorably to the old (the strike rank system and resistance tables were two of the biggest changes and take a lot of heat - the parry/dodge rules were another big change).  I think MRQ may actually do better with players who haven't played the older versions.

Quote from: GrimjackThis is another issue with MRQ, many 2nd and 3rd edition players compare the new system unfavorably to the old (the strike rank system and resistance tables were two of the biggest changes and take a lot of heat - the parry/dodge rules were another big change).  I think MRQ may actually do better with players who haven't played the older versions.

Yeah and people who eat dog shit their whole lives will never miss the taste of ice cream.

Quote from: WarthurFurthermore, the credits to the core rulebook make no mention of the original designers of the game - and Legendary Abilities aside, MRQ owes a hell of a lot to them -

QFT.  The core rules of RQ are what made it a great game and Perrin and the others should have been credited for that reason.

Admittedly there are parts of MRQ that seem more like DnD than RQ but, colorful metaphors about dog shit aside, the fact is that Mongoose is putting out new Runequest material after AH let the game die decades ago, and while Mongoose will never replace Chaosium I still give them credit for bringing the game back.

the prices are a bit steep for the page counts, but i don't see the "painful to look" at argument i keep hearing.  i think the layout's fine, and have no problem with the borders on the pages.  

rules-wise, i've never played 2 or 3, the only thing i could compare it to would be BRP.  since mongoose OGL'ed the rules, couldn't folks who loved the earlier editions now release those rulesets online?  then those of us with no experience of past sets could decide which works best without shelling out $$$ on ebay.  i wish my group would play MRQ so i could try it out.  at this stage, it's just reading material for me.

i'm glad there's another fantasy alternative to d&d out there.

it has no soul? :D

jk (sorta) but i agree with Warthur.
I bought the 1st edition...and still abide by the old "Fuck me once..." adage.

Quote from: beeberthe prices are a bit steep for the page counts, but i don't see the "painful to look" at argument i keep hearing.  i think the layout's fine, and have no problem with the borders on the pages.

The Deluxe book I picked up and handled was printed on paper that just felt...cheap...almost like a heavy newsprint. And the cover also felt like a piece of cardboard had just been slapped on. The binding was such that the pages didn't open evenly and it seemed like it might fall apart if I tried to make it lie flat. I don't have many other hardcover game books but these are at the bottom of the scale. (Maybe sharing the rung with Riddle of Steel; Feng Shui is better, and AD&D1e is tops.) Just on the paper, I'd prefer to handle any of the Chaosium paperbacks, or pretty much any square bound paperback I've seen from the 80's-90's like Dragonquest, Universe, James Bond, Sengoku.

Quotesince mongoose OGL'ed the rules, couldn't folks who loved the earlier editions now release those rulesets online?

I think I may have seen something about a project along these lines, but since Chaosium's take on a full-featured but generic BRP is due out, that might be redundant. (And fans of the old stuff also might want to hold off out of deference to Chaosium.)

Quote from: beeberrules-wise, i've never played 2 or 3, the only thing i could compare it to would be BRP.  since mongoose OGL'ed the rules, couldn't folks who loved the earlier editions now release those rulesets online?

Yes and no. They could summarise the rules so you could see the differences. They couldn't just put the texts of RQ 2 or 3 online.

Quotethen those of us with no experience of past sets could decide which works best without shelling out $$$ on ebay.  i wish my group would play MRQ so i could try it out.  at this stage, it's just reading material for me.

FWIW, I think it's worth checking out Chaosium's new version of Basic Roleplaying coming out in the near future - all the rules from all the various versions of BRP (including older editions of RuneQuest), with plenty different optional bits, all assembled into a coherent whole. To my mind that's more of a spiritual successor to RQ than MRQ is; there's no precedent for things like Legendary Abilities in any BRP game I'm aware of, where special powers and whatnot tended to be natural outgrowths of the percentile skill system.

Quote from: WarthurFWIW, I think it's worth checking out Chaosium's new version of Basic Roleplaying coming out in the near future - all the rules from all the various versions of BRP (including older editions of RuneQuest), with plenty different optional bits, all assembled into a coherent whole. To my mind that's more of a spiritual successor to RQ than MRQ is; there's no precedent for things like Legendary Abilities in any BRP game I'm aware of, where special powers and whatnot tended to be natural outgrowths of the percentile skill system.

absolutely. i figure the fantasy system i'll end up using will be a hybrid of all of those systems.  that said, i may use BRP as the "base" since i'm already familiar with it via CoC.

Y'know... very rarely do I see something on the shelf and get absolutely pissed off.

But after buying some four or five ultra-thin books to run my RQ game, to see this 'three books in one for half the cost of the three' just burned me up something fierce.

That. That pissed me off.

That said, after running the game I am sure previous editions of RQ were not so damn wonky about defense, but never having played or run them, I couldn't say for certain.  Me 'n my players still scratch our heads over defenders part of combat... or would if we were playing (damn unreliable work schedule... damn unreliable players... grr)

Quote from: SpikeY'know... very rarely do I see something on the shelf and get absolutely pissed off.

But after buying some four or five ultra-thin books to run my RQ game, to see this 'three books in one for half the cost of the three' just burned me up something fierce.

That. That pissed me off.

I can see that, although for my part I think it's the only way the core MRQ books could be packaged to make them at all cost-effective. Even then, it's worth remembering that RQ2 managed to pack rules, a few setting details, two magic systems and a bunch of monsters into 120 pages back in the day - so when you look at it that way, it's no wonder fans of old RQ cried foul right when MRQ first came out.

The nicest thing I can say about MRQ is that it made me a convert to earlier editions...

Quote from: WarthurThe nicest thing I can say about MRQ is that it made me a convert to earlier editions...

and so i keep waiting for a deal to surface on ebay. . .

Quote from: Warthur...there's no precedent for things like Legendary Abilities in any BRP game I'm aware of, where special powers and whatnot tended to be natural outgrowths of the percentile skill system.

It's a stretch, I realise, but there were the +100% skill rules for Rune Lords and Priests.  Of course, you had to earn them during the course of the game.

!i!

That's a hell of a stretch, and the 100%+ skills didn't work like Legendary Abilities in MRQ - Legendary Abilities are essentially feats, and IIRC 100%+ skills don't give you feat-like abilities in earlier editions of RQ.

Not feats as such, though some of the RQ3 supplements suggested something of the sort.  "Ki Skills" from Land of Ninja, for instance.  Again, I stretch, if only to show that the notion of superheroic abilites was there, if not implemented in the same fashion.

!i!

Weren't ki skills run under the percentile system?

EDIT TO ADD: My objection to Legendary Abilities isn't that they're superheroic - there's plenty of scope for that in BRP/RQ - it's that they are very obviously grafted onto the system, and aren't really integrated with any particular part of it. They don't derive from the core percentile mechanic, like just about every other BRP subsystem you care to mention does.

I played RQ a lot in high school. It was the only game we could get girls to play. I never could completely fall in love with it, though. I enjoy Glorantha, but there are worlds I like better. So I'm a fan of the old RQ, but not a superfan.

I've picked up MRQ. I think the criticisms offered so far are valid. It departs bafflingly from old RQ stuff, and it is wonky. That said, to me it's fun in play. I have really enjoyed it--especially Lankhmar. The game system is fun and reasonably easy to customize, if you're into that. It's been hard for me to find regular players, but we're playing some Elric in a couple weeks, and that may pan out well.

One criticism that hasn't been stated strongly enough, though, is that the books fall apart. I know Mongoose bought their own press last year to save money, but it just doesn't seem to be working out. I hope it does get squared away, because I'm really looking forward to CthulhuTech and a fresh paper printing of SpyCraft. SpyCraft won't even stay together on the shelf if the binding isn't better than the MRQ stuff. For the more commonly-used books, I've had to trim off the gluey edges of the pages and comb-bind them. That's not too cool for slightly pricey hardbacks.

I'm really looking forward to BRP. Not because I hate MRQ, but because I love the original system, I love CoC, and I like options. I think we'll have a huge d100 buffet to choose from. That'll be great.

Quote from: stu2000I
I'm really looking forward to BRP. Not because I hate MRQ, but because I love the original system, I love CoC, and I like options. I think we'll have a huge d100 buffet to choose from. That'll be great.

I'm looking forward to BRP as well but I'm concerned that Chaosium is going to run into the same problems that Mongoose did with MRQ.  The RQII and RQIII core mechanics were very sound and IMO didn't really require major changes, just a few tweaks here and there.  So when I got MRQ I took a few new ideas out of it but essentially kept what I liked from the old RQ.  IMO the same is true for BRP, which is a close cousin to RQ.  So I think Chaosium has a tough task ahead of them because if they just make a few cosmetic changes then people will feel ripped off but if they screw around with the core mechanics of BRP too much they will take the same kind of heat that Mongoose is for MRQ.  I wish them luck, it would be nice to see Chaosium have a win here.

Quote from: WarthurThat's a hell of a stretch, and the 100%+ skills didn't work like Legendary Abilities in MRQ - Legendary Abilities are essentially feats, and IIRC 100%+ skills don't give you feat-like abilities in earlier editions of RQ.

You do remember correctly.  Skills over 100% give you some advantages like being able to split attacks, and of course you have a higher chance of getting a special or critical roll but there wasn't really anything like a legendary ability in RQII or RQIII.  I can take or leave legendary abilities but I think some kind of "legendary ability" rule that was less like DnD feats would be nice.

Quote from: GrimjackI'm looking forward to BRP as well but I'm concerned that Chaosium is going to run into the same problems that Mongoose did with MRQ.  The RQII and RQIII core mechanics were very sound and IMO didn't really require major changes, just a few tweaks here and there.  So when I got MRQ I took a few new ideas out of it but essentially kept what I liked from the old RQ.  IMO the same is true for BRP, which is a close cousin to RQ.  So I think Chaosium has a tough task ahead of them because if they just make a few cosmetic changes then people will feel ripped off but if they screw around with the core mechanics of BRP too much they will take the same kind of heat that Mongoose is for MRQ.  I wish them luck, it would be nice to see Chaosium have a win here.

The guy behind the project (I'm afraid I don't remember his name) used to post regularly about it on tBP. Apparently they're sticking to a tight set of core rules - the BRP elements we all know and love - and providing a whole assload of optional rules. If my interpretation of his posts is correct, you'll be able to take the BRP rulebook and reconstruct RQ2/3, or Call of Cthulhu, or Stormbringer, or Ringworld, or Superworld, or at least something very like any of the above games very easily.

Jason Durall is the guy behind the project.

I can see Grimjack's concern; I guess the problem is that they're screwed either way with the true grognards. Make it different and they won't like it, make it they same and they won't see the point in buying it. But as Warthur suggests, by including stuff from the lesser-known BRP variants as options, they can hopefully offer value to people who only own one of the games in the family but would like to branch out genre-wise without having to track down a whole bunch of OOP stuff.

I'm more concerned though that DBRP will have had a lot of its thunder stolen by MRQ when it comes to the newbie market.

My main concern about DBRP is that we will never see it.

I think that's unlikely. The final manuscript is in-house, the cover art is done, the interior art is being cranked out and final layout is continuing apace. This isn't vapourware to nearly the same extent as, say, Pulp Cthulhu is.

For me it was a few things, many of them quite small but quite important.

The split into the core book and companion was a blatant moneyspinner, the companion was core rules, as best I could tell they had rather artificially cut the core book in two and sold it in two lots.

Leaving aside the ethics or cost to the consumer of that, it made it harder to use, some characters required referencing both books.  It actually made the game less useful in order to get more money from customers.  Uncool.

But there was other stuff, hit points were amended so that a dagger thrust to the abdomen couldn't kill the average guy any more.  That may not sound like a big deal, but it's a fundamental shift to how Runequest plays IMO.  That coupled with a fortune point mechanic meant that while RQ2 and 3 were potentially very deadly games this one not so much.  For me the change to lethality was a change which utterly lost the spirit of the original game.  Like making a new DnD edition with a rule in which critical hits could instantly kill any character regardless of level.  It ignores the philosophy of the system.

The legendary abilities weren't much cop, but they were easily ignored, even so it was blatantly introducing feats.

But really it was a lack of a feel for what made the original game good.  They made it less lethal, the rules in a few places a touch clunkier, the writing was very dry and it was artificially split over two books.

The trouble with MRQ wasn't that it was some terrible travesty, it was that it just wasn't that good and it had lost what made RQ unique in the first place.

Oh, and they made rune magic something only magi had, they dropped the everyone has magic thing, and even then how you got it didn't make much sense.  Just generally it felt kind of not so great.

Quote from: WarthurWeren't ki skills run under the percentile system?

EDIT TO ADD: My objection to Legendary Abilities isn't that they're superheroic - there's plenty of scope for that in BRP/RQ - it's that they are very obviously grafted onto the system, and aren't really integrated with any particular part of it. They don't derive from the core percentile mechanic, like just about every other BRP subsystem you care to mention does.

Yep, I don't think they're a critical failing of the game as it were because they're not integral and are easily ignored, but basically they are feats kludged onto a BRP variant and they work about as well as that sounds.

Quote from: BalbinusYep, I don't think they're a critical failing of the game as it were because they're not integral and are easily ignored, but basically they are feats kludged onto a BRP variant and they work about as well as that sounds.

I suppose from my end I don't think they ruin the game all by themselves, but they're a quick and easy shorthand for explaining how the MRQ designers simply Did. Not. Understand what made the earlier editions of RQ worthwhile and interesting and successful.

As Paranoia 5th Edition and Bruce Baugh's d20 version of Gamma World taught us so painfully, there are few things worse in gaming than a new edition of a game designed by somebody who simply doesn't understand why people liked the older versions in the first place.

Gee, these aree all almost the same complaints about Mongoose's Runequest that I read in a similiar thread on the SJG forums a month or 2 ago.

- Ed C.

Quote from: KoltarGee, these aree all almost the same complaints about Mongoose's Runequest that I read in a similiar thread on the SJG forums a month or 2 ago.

- Ed C.

If they're accurate criticisms that's to be expected surely?

Warthur, good point on the shorthand thing there.

And yes, the key to refreshing a game is to get it.  Gamma World is a good example, as a standalone PA rpg it might have been fine, but it really had very little to do with Gamma World other than branding and people reacted to that.

Paranoia 5th, is that the pre-Mongoose one?

Quote from: BalbinusParanoia 5th, is that the pre-Mongoose one?

Yes. It's the one that WEG put out after churning out ever-more-awful products for years and years, after all of the original designers (and most of the guys who'd written products before the decline began) had left, and where they assigned the art to a chimpanzee with a pencil and the writing to a bunch of dorks who didn't even slightly understand what made the original game good.

This RPG.net thread (http://forum.rpg.net/archive/index.php/t-260222.html) has a reasonably summary of the issues with 5th. As Allen Varney points out, when designing Paranoia XP he unilaterally declared every Paranoia product published after 1989 to be an "un-product", wiping out the decline and fall of the game line under WEG. Nobody (at the point the thread was written) criticised him for it, and I've never seen anyone do so since. Can you imagine someone doing something similar to any other popular game line and not be subject to an enormous howl of protest from the fans?

This is why people like me, before MRQ came out, trusted Mongoose with rereleases of classic games: any publisher who could help drag Paranoia out of the doldrums and make it as successful (if not more successful - I believe there are more XP supplements out now than there ever were for other editions) as it ever was, when WEG had so badly squandered the game's potential and reputation, deserves respect.

RQ had, for me, these defining traits:

• Lethal and gritty system: A dagger thrust against an unarmored guy was serious shit. No more "poke - me - 20 - times - with - your - knife - so - I - start - feeling - a - bit - uncomfortable" thingie. Limbs were easily chopped off, and you took your combat seriously. Now, you don't have that feeling. Crap.
  
• Everyone had magic: You had to take one of the specialist professions (shaman, priest/rune lord or sorcerer) to get to do Really Badass Magic Shit, but everybody had a little magic (or, if you had cash, a lot of it). Game was richer and unpredictable for it. Also, magic healing helped a bit to faster the healing without losing the grittyness of the system (because magic could fail, and it costs resources). Now you are stuck in a more typical fantasy game, where only mages have magic. Originality lost. Crap.
  
• Everything was in a slim book: You didn't have to break your back carrying books to play the game. You could if you wished to, but it wasn't mandatory.

Three traits. Just three simple traits. So, I declare this a Not Bad Fantasy Game, but An Utter RQ Travesty.
 
I'll stick with 3e. She will ever love me, and has never failed me.

Quote from: ImperatorRQ had, for me, these defining traits:

• Lethal and gritty system: A dagger thrust against an unarmored guy was serious shit. No more "poke - me - 20 - times - with - your - knife - so - I - start - feeling - a - bit - uncomfortable" thingie. Limbs were easily chopped off, and you took your combat seriously. Now, you don't have that feeling. Crap.

See, that always seemed to be a big key point for fans I spoke with regarding the old RQ.  I'm really surprised they changed that, as it seemed to be something a lot of RQ fans brought up as something they liked about it.

That's one of the reasons I like RM, btw.

Quote from: Zachary The FirstSee, that always seemed to be a big key point for fans I spoke with regarding the old RQ. I'm really surprised they changed that, as it seemed to be something a lot of RQ fans brought up as something they liked about it.
 
That's one of the reasons I like RM, btw.

Word on the RM (and MERP) thing. Critical tables were just for the manly.
 
I don't understand the playtesting process at Mongoose, so I can't comment on it. It's just not the same game with the lethality downgraded. Some friends of mine (hardcore RQ fans) play MRQ and quite enjoy it, but they have tweaked it a bit to get the grit back.

Heck, some MRQ playtesters never understood the playtesting process at Mongoose.

Quote from: BalbinusFor me it was a few things, many of them quite small but quite important.

The split into the core book and companion was a blatant moneyspinner, the companion was core rules, as best I could tell they had rather artificially cut the core book in two and sold it in two lots.

That is an excellent point.  If you want to play MRQ with sorcerors, shaman, divine magic and a good variety of spells you have to buy probably 4 books and that doesn't even get you the monster book.  The cost of that aside, it is annoying to flip through all those books.

I think you and Warthur have summed it up nicely, MRQ isn't a terrible travesty but it is disappointing in many ways.  For instance, I don't know why it was necessary to change the damages for weapons and armor points.  OTOH the reason I like MRQ is that I can cherry pick material and easily ignore the new rules I don't like and there is finally new material being published for RQ.

I've never played RQ before MRQ, so I've no basis of comparison, but I'm running a MRQ game right now (homebrew setting), and here are my thoughts thus far:

Pros

• It's a decent generic fantasy system, which you can download for free (a blessing to a man running in group on a budget).
• Easy to learn.
• It's far grittier than D&D (my group's bread and butter), which is a nice change of pace.

Cons

• Poorly worded rules have lead to confusion several times already...and we're only two games deep.  Combat steps in particular have caused headaches, which are only slightly mitigated by the erratta, which also (ironically) suffers from rules contradictions.
• The layout of this book is rather crap.  I mean, they have things flung all over the place with little or no thought to ease of use.  It's a pain in the ass, not helped by the fact that there's...
• A distinct lack of information, which smells suspiciously intentional.
• I'm not wild about the magic system as presented, as there aren't enough spells in the book to make being a spellcaster a desirable option.

In short:  the system works just fine, but suffers from some major quality issues.  Not exactly a top-tier game, by any means.

Quote from: BalbinusThat coupled with a fortune point mechanic meant that while RQ2 and 3 were potentially very deadly games this one not so much.

Fortune point mechanic? I missed that, too. Can't find it in the SRD. Any pointers?

Quote from: Elliot WilenFortune point mechanic? I missed that, too. Can't find it in the SRD. Any pointers?

Hero Points. Their use is described at the end of Chapter 3, Combat. Bit of an odd place for them:

Quote from: MRQ SRDHero Points
Hero points can be used in a variety of ways.  One Hero Point is deducted form the character's total every time one of the following options is taken.

Second Chance:  A character can re-roll any dice roll that affects his character.  This can be a skill test, damage roll or anything else that has some effect on him.  

Glancing Blow:  A character who suffers a Major Injury may spend a Hero Point and downgrade that injury to a Serious Injury.  This simultaneously reduces the damage so that it is at a negative score equal to its starting hit points.

Luck of the Heroes:  A Hero Point may be spent to alter the storyline of the current scenario in some minor way.  This may only be done with the approval of the Games Master and allows a character to become truly lucky for a short period of time.  

Legendary Abilities:  The character may spend Hero Points to acquire a Legendary Ability he has qualified for.  

The hero points system reminded me of Karma Points from Shadowrun.  I also thought the new initiative system was reminiscent of Shadowrun.

Arsenic's experience was interesting.  I've played RQ for so many years that I didn't have much problem navigating the MRQ rules since I knew what to expect, but I can see where it would be confusing for a GM new to the system, particularly if you are going off of the SRD.

The new combined core rule book may solve the problem but you can also get the core MRQ rules and a more developed magic system a then you get in the core book from one of the other MRQ-based games like Hawkmoon, Lankhmar or Slaine.  Elric also has the core rules plus sorcery but the magic is limited to summonings.

Or you can always hang out and wait for BRP from Chaosium.

Thanks folks.

I think Lanhkmar doesn't have the core rules, though.

Quote from: AosMy main concern about DBRP is that we will never see it.

Targeted to be out before (this) Christmas...although it sounds like that is making them rush a little bit.  If it isn't going to be ready, I hope they opt to just take another month or two to get it right, rather than rushing the finishing touches and having to put out a revised version in 3 months.

they won't rush it.  it'll probably be 1st quarter '08 instead of xmas.

Quote from: Elliot WilenThanks folks.

I think Lanhkmar doesn't have the core rules, though.

Thanks Elliot, my bad.  I pulled out my Lankhmar book and you are right that while it does have character creation and Black Magic (sorcery variant) rules it does not have the core RQ rules like Slaine, Elric, and Hawkmoon do.  I think that is due to the fact that Mongoose got their own printing facility prior to the latter books coming out so they were able to expand the page count and include the core rules.

Quote from: beeberthey won't rush it.  it'll probably be 1st quarter '08 instead of xmas.

I can't recall exactly, but haven't they been talking about releasing this for years now?  Or does it just seem that long.  After all that time hopefully it will be great.