Is that why the maps of the Crown of the World are super pretty instead of being hexed, although the adventure involved all sorts of fiddly mile counting while crossing the north pole of Golarion?

Is that why the Paizo Pathfinder PDFs are so graphically overwrought that my computers choke on them?

Prettiness for non-gamers, Yeesh!

I'm finding that the one-page dungeons are great for fleshing out a sandbox, but  a meatier 6-16 page adventure format is generally the ideal for presentation of a substantial module.  I was going over B1 In Search of the Unknown yesterday for inclusion in my Labyrinth Lord sandbox, and it has pretty much the perfect format (leaving aside unkeyed monsters & treasures, I used someone else's suggested distribution from the Internet).

Even with 4e, I find that the 6-page adventures of Dungeon Delve are useful and useable, whereas the big 96-page WotC adventures are horrendous, incomprehensible to the point of unusability. That's partly due to the appalling presentation, but the 6-page Delves show that even this terrible presentation can be usable in small enough chunks.

Quote from: Planet Algol;563528Is that why the Paizo Pathfinder PDFs are so graphically overwrought that my computers choke on them?

Prettiness for non-gamers, Yeesh!

It's not necessarily for non-gamers. Even gamers often buy a lot more material than they can use.

Paizo's bread and butter is their adventure paths. And the foundation of the adventure path model is subscriptions. They have loads of customers who have bought 6 adventure paths in the last three years, but that's far too fast a rate to have played them all. Most of those customers have played maybe 2 or 3 paths in that time. So half the books get used in play, but all of them get read.

Quote from: Bill;562443Monster stast not in the module.

+100000

We recently just started playing 3e, and the modules don't have stats for monsters in them.  Soooooo frustrating.  Makes me want to throw the books against the wall.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;563755+100000

We recently just started playing 3e, and the modules don't have stats for monsters in them.  Soooooo frustrating.  Makes me want to throw the books against the wall.

I like the format used in the old C1 Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan model. In the body of the module, only HP are given for the monster entry. In the back of the book is an appendix with the full stats for all the monsters in the module.

Quote from: Haffrung;563760I like the format used in the old C1 Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan model. In the body of the module, only HP are given for the monster entry. In the back of the book is an appendix with the full stats for all the monsters in the module.

In my perfect world (which I will be doing going forward in my own adventures), is to not only list the core stats next to each encounter, but also have an area where the DM can track the hp of the monsters in that area.  Maybe a small box off to the side or something so you don't have to get extra scratch paper, which is just one more piece of paper to get jumbled around.

I vastly prefer the "G1" (or in this case, "C1") style of module presentation.  I have a DMG on hand, do not assail me with a wall of stats.  Give me the monster name and hit points.  I'll do the rest.  But that's a nuance thing; the rather egregious design choices I mentioned earlier are the ones I want to see rectified.

Personally, what I want from modules nowadays is completeness. A decent story is pretty high on the priority list too, but it doesn't need to be Shakespeare.

I see no value in things like DDI, but if WotC wants money from me on a monthly basis, here's how they do it.

Sell modules in box sets, that come with all the maps, and at least tokens for the monsters I will need, if not minis. Make the module be 3-4 four hour sessions worth of play (that's about 1 month for me).

Do that, and I'll easily give them $20 to $30 a month. The days of me spending hours prepping for a game and cannibalizing modules, or making up my own entire world are buried under a mortgage, and dirty diapers. Give me something worth playing, and I will pay them for it.

The art doesn't need to be pretty. That's relative anyway. The slick art in PF and D&D is nice, but after awhile the digitally painted stuff all starts to look the same. Some good "pen and ink" interior art is what I want.
The need to look at the maps from goodman games DCC modules. Those are GORGEOUS and probably cost far less than some photoshopped thing with layer effects and whatnot.

The beauty of selling modules in box sets with everything you need, is you can then sell them in different stages of completeness for lower prices. For example, just the PDF, or just the booklet, or the booklet and the maps only for those who have minis already.

If they do something like that, I'd be all over it.

Box sets with maps and tokens would cost more than $30, though.

RPGPundit

Modules are bad and you should all feel bad for even thinking about using them.

Quote from: RPGPundit;565678Box sets with maps and tokens would cost more than $30, though.

RPGPundit

WoTC were able to put out some sets around a $30 price point - Monster Vault (actual boxed set with book & tons of counters) and Monster Vault: Threats to the Nentir Vale (slipcase style, with book,  multiple battlemats and counters); I believe Gardmore Abbey also. Nentir Vale at least was definitely a $30 product ($35 RRP - http://www.amazon.com/Monster-Vault-Threats-Dungeons-Supplement/dp/0786958383/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1343547253&sr=8-1&keywords=Threats+to+the+Nentir+Vale) and hit all the buttons. Monster Vault was $30 if bought online.

Personally I find the 1" flat counters are too small to see in pub lighting and don't work well, but Paizo's 2d stand-up cardboard 'pawns' are brilliant, highly visible, very attractive, and shouldn't cost any more to make. The Pathfinder Beginner Box has pawns, battlemat, 160 pages of books, dice etc for around $30.

Of course the PBB was designed to have a very low profit margin to bring in new players, I wouldn't expect so much in a normal adventure, but a 64 to 96 page adventure with 3 pages of cardboard pawns and maybe a couple paper battlemat sheets should be doable. Something like the 4e HPE slipcase adventures, only (a) good and (b) with pawns, for an extra $8-$10.

Quote from: RPGPundit;565678Box sets with maps and tokens would cost more than $30, though.

RPGPundit

Paizo sells a box with dice, pawns and maps for $35. It's got two books, and a gamemastery map in it, along with 80 tokens, and a huge box. I don't need the best paper and full color art on a module either. Make the maps 2 tone on cardstock tiles instead, and/or give me permission to photocopy them.

It could be done, even if it had to be $40, so be it.

Quote from: Gib;565681Modules are bad and you should all feel bad for even thinking about using them.

Someone's been studying the TGD manual of argumentation.

I bet you're playing a module right now, while eating fried food and worshiping Satan.