Quote from: DrewIt's like saying it couldn't be done because the director isn't rolling dice to determine the outcome every scene.

YES! There you have it! It boils down to that exactly.

What the fuck do you do when you want to TELL A STORY? You don't fucking RANDOMIZE, do you?

Not if you want the story to be any good.

RPGS ARE NOT FOR MAKING FUCKING STORIES!!!!!

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditYES! There you have it! It boils down to that exactly.

What the fuck do you do when you want to TELL A STORY? You don't fucking RANDOMIZE, do you?

Not if you want the story to be any good.

RPGS ARE NOT FOR MAKING FUCKING STORIES!!!!!

RPGPundit

"Yet stories continually arise from play..." he said once again, before realising that it really wasn't worth the effort.

If you've never played in a traditional game that's had a tightly woven plot that resolved itself to the enjoyment of all involved then I'm not sure what kind of games you've actually been playing. If D&D is nothing more to you than a series of randomized events loosely strung together by recurring characters and rules then you've really missed out.

Quote from: DrewIf you've never played in a traditional game that's had a tightly woven plot that resolved itself to the enjoyment of all involved then I'm not sure what kind of games you've actually been playing.

I find more interest in traditional games that don't have a tightly woven plot but whose elements snap into focus in the middle or later into something resembling a story that resolves itself to the enjoyment of all resolved.

Quote from: RPGPunditRPGS ARE NOT FOR MAKING FUCKING STORIES!!!!!

Engage unbunch-panty mode. Thanks.

Are we still in a movie context or have we regressed to the basic "what is gaming" flack so beloved of this forum? If films are still on the table, I'd like to add that real life/history isn't for making stories, either, yet we've got some neat films for that. Does it perfectly depict reality? Erm, no, that would be terminally boring. I don't want to see Napoleon on the shitter, scratching his balls.

I also don't want to see the elven princeling Navhrimas argue about Attack of Opportunities in a movie -- or arguing about perfect pizza composition. No big deal, no problem.

Quote from: CalithenaI find more interest in traditional games that don't have a tightly woven plot but whose elements snap into focus in the middle or later into something resembling a story that resolves itself to the enjoyment of all resolved.

I love that too, and have been a staunch advocate of story as an artifact of play many times on this very forum.

My response is based off Pundit's assertion that trad games like D&D "ARE NOT FOR MAKING FUCKING STORIES!" when the weight of contrary anecdotal evidence is huge. It may not be their principle mechanical goal, but that's what they enable us to do, and can easily be tailored in such a way that more tightly plotted stuff is a breeze to run.

His entire rationale for starting the thread seems disingenuous anyway. Ah well, it's nice to hear what people would like to see in a D&D movie regardless.

Quote from: SosthenesAre we still in a movie context or have we regressed to the basic "what is gaming" flack so beloved of this forum? If films are still on the table, I'd like to add that real life/history isn't for making stories, either, yet we've got some neat films for that. Does it perfectly depict reality? Erm, no, that would be terminally boring. I don't want to see Napoleon on the shitter, scratching his balls.

I made exactly this point a couple of pages ago, but it seemed to get lost.

Thinking about it more I'm further convinced that Dark Sun would be the ideal candidate for a D&D IP to be filmed. It may not be the baseline fantasy that most gamers enjoy, but as far sheer dramatic potential goes I think the first ed. boxed set has everything else beat.

I don't know, Drew, Dark Sun would be a tough sell. Post-apocalyptic wasteland fantasy is bound to look like the cheap barbarian movies of the 80s, so I doubt a studio would sink some money into a project like that.

From a marketing perspective, it also would be better to have something with a higher fanbase. Eberron would offer some interesting vistas and would play nicely with some recently released or planned movies (I'm thinking about Stardust and that Golden Compass thingy). Dragonlance has been rather popular, and we'll be seeing a movie pretty soon.
The Forgotten Realms would also make a nice deal, considering how many computer games there have been (a bigger market than RPGs themselves).

I kind of got on Pundit's case for this over on his forum, Drew. That is, stories-among-other-things are part of that glorious mass of 'incoherent' play that I thought a lot of us here liked. Anti-story for the sake of reinen simulationismus is just staking out a different corner of the GNS triangle.

The only thing that worries me about Pundy's proposed movie script is that it sounds like a Jim Jarmusch, and that's not what we want, nosirreebob.

Cross of Iron, I'm telling you. Expanded Cutting Room Floor Edition.

Quote from: SosthenesI don't know, Drew, Dark Sun would be a tough sell. Post-apocalyptic wasteland fantasy is bound to look like the cheap barbarian movies of the 80s, so I doubt a studio would sink some money into a project like that.

300?

I do see your point, though. Any studio exec who wasn't involved in the first D&D movie would likely exploit the most popular extant setting. Dark Sun, for all its glorious exoticism and dramatic potential and is pretty dead in the water.

QuoteDragonlance has been rather popular, and we'll be seeing a movie pretty soon.

And I for one am looking forward to it, although with no small amount of trepidation.

QuoteThe Forgotten Realms would also make a nice deal, considering how many computer games there have been (a bigger market than RPGs themselves).

This one's a toughie. How to distinguish the Forgotten Realms from all the other sub-Tolkien parodies without cutting the heart out? It would need deft hands indeed to make the Realms feel like the Realms, there's only a few inches of wiggle room on either side before it devolves into pastiche, at least on the cinematic level. Only the other day a friend and I both yelled "Elminster!" as we watched Dumbledore fight Voldermort in the latest Potter flick.

Quote from: CalithenaI kind of got on Pundit's case for this over on his forum, Drew. That is, stories-among-other-things are part of that glorious mass of 'incoherent' play that I thought a lot of us here liked. Anti-story for the sake of reinen simulationismus is just staking out a different corner of the GNS triangle.

Indeed. It's kind of sad, in a way.

And guys...LotR?  C'mon.  They violate the first rule in gaming in the first movie...sheesh.

All kidding aside: I see a fighter in worn armor - it's obvioulsy been used beyond effectiveness and yet, somehow, still turns a blow - with his back against the door.  Every so often, a loud BOOM coincides with him moving, being pushed by the door, and then scrambling back to hold it against whatever is trying to get in.

In the corner, a small, worn man - in what looks like a sack - holds his knees to his chest and whimpers; the same phrase that you can't quite make out, over an over again.

Against the far wall, three other people (pick your race and class) stand around a table amidst broken chairs and argue over a small map stretched out over the table.

As the fighter's view (the camera) pans to the table, and focuses in on the conversation, he flashes back to how he got into this mess in the first place.

Pundit - the point is not whether RPG's exist to make story, but whether or not you can take the play that emerges naturally from the instance and tweak it to become a good script.  I think you can, even if my little example is not very well done...

QuoteAll kidding aside: I see a fighter in worn armor - it's obvioulsy been used beyond effectiveness and yet, somehow, still turns a blow - with his back against the door.  Every so often, a loud BOOM coincides with him moving, being pushed by the door, and then scrambling back to hold it against whatever is trying to get in.

In the corner, a small, worn man - in what looks like a sack - holds his knees to his chest and whimpers; the same phrase that you can't quite make out, over an over again.

Against the far wall, three other people (pick your race and class) stand around a table amidst broken chairs and argue over a small map stretched out over the table.

As the fighter's view (the camera) pans to the table, and focuses in on the conversation, he flashes back to how he got into this mess in the first place.

Excellent. I'd love to see something like this. Good, solid D&D fare told in an exciting and dynamic way.

QuotePundit - the point is not whether RPG's exist to make story, but whether or not you can take the play that emerges naturally from the instance and tweak it to become a good script.

Exactly.

Quote from: DrewExcellent. I'd love to see something like this. Good, solid D&D fare told in an exciting and dynamic way.

Yeah, the trick is to take the type of information that comes from a session of D&D - which is not driven by controlling the "narrative structure" or similar goal - and translate that into a story in the movie script sense.

And there's certainly no reason it must be linear.  What might it look like if it had a Pulp Fiction treatment?

Quote from: James J SkachYeah, the trick is to take the type of information that comes from a session of D&D - which is not driven by controlling the "narrative structure" or similar goal - and translate that into a story in the movie script sense.

Indeed. One approach would be treating the story as an emergent property rather than a guiding light dictating, then adapting the resulting material into something more narrative-friendly. Innumerable films and theatre productions have grown out of improv in this way, and whilst there's been plenty of dross some of them have turned out brilliantly.

QuoteAnd there's certainly no reason it must be linear.  What might it look like if it had a Pulp Fiction treatment?

"Elminster's dead, baby. Elminster's dead."