Serious question... If the focus of D&D moves more and more towards online interractions and digital tools, what then for sit around the table RPGs?

People will keep on playing, and one or more games will take the position.

It strikes me as one of those " is video is killing the cinema?" questions. The likelihood is we'll see some change (and that some it will seem very impactful in the early days) but I doubt the entire nature of the hobby will change too much. I think it's likely to incorporate the new technology and move on, remaining recognisably the same for a good while yet.

To be honest I don't think we'll see any significant alteration in the structure or popularity of tabletop play unless the blatantly science fictional (personality downloads, true AI, 3D holo-projection, shared virtual mindspace etc.) becomes a reality. And by that time we'll all be fighting dinosaurs on Mars anyway.

Quote from: CabSerious question... If the focus of D&D moves more and more towards online interractions and digital tools, what then for sit around the table RPGs?

Tabletop rpgs will always exist in some form. I'm not worried about it.

Quote from: Sacrificial LambTabletop rpgs will always exist in some form. I'm not worried about it.

Heck, I didn't mean to imply that there is any reason to worry We'll still have our games to play, after all.

Its more that D&D does rather drive the market at the moment; if it becomes (as some have implied) a tool to attract WoW players to the game, with more digital tools and a feel tailored to bring those guys in, with more online gaming as an inherent part of it (so the SATT elements would be written to be useful as the engine of the computer gaming parts), what would the knock on effect of that be for RPGs? Would other game producers follow suit? Would it soon become the norm for SATT and computer games to be thus interchangeable?

The only real effect is that people will be able to choose between playing D&D around a table OR play online with a geographically dispersed group, and D&D players will have an even easier time finding players.

How this will effect other gaming?

Well, any smart companies will figure out a way to follow suit. If anyone could benefit from the ability to find players and arrange games with a geographically dispersed group of players, it's those other parties.

Quote from: CabSerious question... If the focus of D&D moves more and more towards online interractions and digital tools, what then for sit around the table RPGs?

I already think what 4th is doing is a bad move.  Tabletop role playing is a differnet social expereince.  I'm not sure why there is a move to intigrate the two with 4th ed.  Simply have two seperate games, D&D online and D&D tabletop.

As it is, the more 4th pushes to require online support in any way, the more people it alienates.  True tabletop role playing will become that much more of a niche hobby than it already is if our main source of bodies (D&D) is split down the middle.

I don't think the D&D focus is changing at all, at the heart of it, D&D is a pen and paper RPG. WotC may be expanding their horizons and trying to tap into other markets, and make their product accessible to others, but it will still be the same game it has been. There is no online shift, push, or movement. Your players and GMs won't be abandoning your game to play online instead. Wizards will not be ramping down production of print products and plastic minis in an attempt to sell you more e-products.

I don't think there is anything to be concerned about, and don't see any real negatives to WotC branching out to try and bring more people into the hobby. I'm not trying to diminish Grubman's opinion, but I can't see how having online options available will alienate anyone. Now if online was the only option, I could see people getting upset, but I don't get the opposition to more options.

I haven't been following the releases much but I really doubt that D&D is becoming a computer game (well they might try to expand their online game too but that's in addition, not instead). Rather, it's adding the option of online tools. Many hardcore groups already use computers extensively. It's still tabletop play. But you can show the sections of map unfolding on the screen instead of having to map, you can show pics in addition to descriptions, and you can track the condition of characters and monsters. The point is to make tabletop smoother, less unfun stuff to have more time for fun stuff. Chargen is also easier with software to keep track of how many feats and skill points you've spent, then to calculate your mods.
 
The real potential is tools for DM prep. 3e can take tons of time to prep if you do it all by hand and refuse to fudge. One place that had mapping software, PC, NPC, and monster generators, spreadsheets for treasure, HP, and XP, plus campaign notes, would make more people willing to DM, which would keep more groups active and buying.
 
They had ideas for this with 3e, it just never panned out.  The phb initially came with a CD for chargen and a few other things.  But it was buggy and limited and they didn't follow up quickly enough.

I've said it before (and I'm going to try to dig up the link) that D&D will become a computer game - just not in the way we mostly currently think about CRPG's or MMO's.

It will be across between the virtual table-top, customizable WoW where the DM sets up the world and let's in players. IIRC, J Arcance or Abyssal Maw (sorry guys, my memory is mush these days) has talked about Neverwinter Nights (I think), where there is some customization possible?

Watch - 5th Edition will be that.  It will be 8 years from now - technology will be able to do it.  Hell, it might even include holographic displays for sitting around the table. Rules can't get too crunchy, because the computer will handle them for you (after you roll, of course).

And then someone will reverse engineer it, make it open source, and any joe in his basement will be able to create this on a shared server with any rule set you want.

Bookmark it and come back in 2015 and we'll see how I did...

I first posted it in the Dancey-on-saving-the-hobby thread, here. Jrients picked it up and cross-posted it for the 5th Edition predictions thread and I expanded a bit on it  here.

The whole thing goes like this:

Quote from:  James J SkachSo here's my prediction. Ready? Drum Rolls? Bookmarks?

D&D 4.0 is a holding ground. It's gauze on the wound that WoW put to D&D. It's stopping the bleeding. And it's stalling for time until they can build a product that is better than WoW. They won't care if all of the grognard die in a huge explosion of mind power at the sheer incensed anger at D&D going on-line in 5th Edition - they'll have this kick-ass application where you can have a live DM if you choose, or play in a WoW-like system. You'll have servers with people's homebrew campaigns next to servers running whatever WotC Living campaign that exists next to servers running WoW-like D&D run by a computer. the non-WoW-like games will be run by software you can buy (as the DM) and put on a WotC shared server - like this forum - and accesses (as a player) via custom front end, with all of the rules embedded and ready for XML (or whatever technology is used in 10 years) updates on demand, both of which will sell as a monthly subscription cost - probably in the $20-$30 range (which will include all of the Dungeon and Dragon content, fourms, tools, etc.). It will all be ready in 5-8 years - and 4.0 is just a holding ground to stop as much loss as possible and prepare the way.

phew...it take alot out of me to predict the future like that...I have to go get some rest while I work...



I'm convinced, more than ever, just on my own speculation thinking about what would make the most sense if they really wanted to compete with WoW - that this is the direction they will go. 4th Edition is merely a stepping stone in a much longer plan to go after this market. I'd bet the reason for the management change and such was that the suits at corporate made this direction decision - that is, someone said "What are you going to do to compete with WoW?" And they didn't like the answer, which was probably something like "Oh, we do't have to. We're tabletop RPG's!" I'm guessing they didn't like that answer...

Quote from: James J SkachIt will be across between the virtual table-top, customizable WoW where the DM sets up the world and let's in players. IIRC, J Arcance or Abyssal Maw (sorry guys, my memory is mush these days) has talked about Neverwinter Nights (I think), where there is some customization possible?

That's what Neverwinter Nights is, in a nutshell. The toolkit in Neverwinter Nights lets you set up a world and control it during the adventure as the GM, and be as open or as selective as you like about who you let in.

Quote from: James J SkachWatch - 5th Edition will be that.  It will be 8 years from now - technology will be able to do it.  Hell, it might even include holographic displays for sitting around the table. Rules can't get too crunchy, because the computer will handle them for you (after you roll, of course).

You know, I saw that in an issue of Legion of Superheroes back in, like, 1987 or so.  I think it was Sun Boy and Ultra Lad playing against each other while Phantom Lass and a couple of the other girls looked on (typical, even 1000 years in the future).  Looked totally Gamist, though.

!i!

Quote from: WarthurThat's what Neverwinter Nights is, in a nutshell. The toolkit in Neverwinter Nights lets you set up a world and control it during the adventure as the GM, and be as open or as selective as you like about who you let in.

Yeah, that was the point of the conversation IIRC - but I think there are still limitations.  My point is that those limitations will be gone in 8 years and it will all be through your browser on your iPhone/iPod/iGadget and it will all run smoothly whether the folks sit across the table from each other or across the world from each other. People will see it as merely the evolution of pen&paper to stylus&tablet.

It will be the combination of WoW and D&D and Neverwinter Nights - with the strengths of each. And I will call it World of Dragon Nights...or Dungeons and Dragons World of Neverwinter Nights...or something.

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaYou know, I saw that in an issue of Legion of Superheroes back in, like, 1987 or so.  I think it was Sun Boy and Ultra Lad playing against each other while Phantom Lass and a couple of the other girls looked on (typical, even 1000 years in the future).  Looked totally Gamist, though.

!i!

:haw:

To be honest, I thought about something like that line of reasoning.  Here's my prediction:

When this happens - and it will - there will be people who the facilitation offered by computer integration to totally go tactically crazy and implement every little detailed rule there is and play the fuck out of it.  There will be people who use the facilitation offered by the computer integration to let it handle all of the icky details, even to the point of removing some rules (the rulesets will be totally customizable making it easy to remove AoO for example) to focus on the shared narrative being built. There will be people who will use the facilitation offered by the computer integration to create "headsets" that will allow them to see/speak as the character totally immersing themselves in the virtual world.

And most of us will use it for a personalized mix of the above three.

All will sing it's praises, except those that don't really like Emulative RPG's to begin with....