TheRPGSite

What will it be?  I'm not talking about a license.  I mean ideas, mechanics, methods, settings, style, etc.

What will be the most influential new thing?

In store print on demand.  Everything ever in print all the time.

Quote from: David Johansen on January 30, 2023, 07:38:21 PM
In store print on demand.  Everything ever in print all the time.

That would be awesome.

Quote from: David Johansen on January 30, 2023, 07:38:21 PM
In store print on demand.  Everything ever in print all the time.

Printing isn't the issue, it's the binding that's the issue, unless you are thinking of spiral/3 rings binders.

Quote from: David Johansen on January 30, 2023, 07:38:21 PM
In store print on demand.  Everything ever in print all the time.

I second that would be awesome.

Quote from: David Johansen on January 30, 2023, 07:38:21 PM
In store print on demand.  Everything ever in print all the time.

Spot on. Brick and mortar stores will always be necessary. Customers will always want to peruse through aisles and get their hands on physical product. With in-store POD the store will no longer have to carry an expensive inventory or sell out of a popular item. The printing technology will allow them to print while the customer waits with whatever kind of binding or collector's edition cover they want. Docutech printers already do this, the quality will continue to improve.

This will spread out into many other industries like hardware stores being able to print the parts you need. Yes, metal, glass, virtually any material can be 3d printed. SpaceX prints its rocket engines.

Maybe someday they'll figure out how to print food from ink wells of the basic flavors. Wouldn't that be something?

3d printing is every bit as incredible as the AI tech which is starting to overturn entire industries. We are going to see as much change over the next couple of decades as someone who lived through the 20th century experienced.

I hate to say it, but nothing.

Back in the day, when computer games were text, or shitty graphics, theater of the mind was king. When the family had one phone line, then internet was expensive, even when not everyone had a personal computer, gathering in person around a table made sense.

But now the younger generation does all of its recreation online, friends only meet online (even if they are in the same town), and graphics and software just keep getting better and better. Soon people will be able to act out a dungeon crawl in V.R., and feel the virtual sword bite in to digital monster flesh.

TTRPG's are going the way of model trains. There will always be a hardcore fandom, but very much niche, with limited new blood. We lived the glory days, folks, now we settle down in to slow irrelevance.

Considering how popularity has killed, then raped the corpse, of so many hobbies, is fading away even a bad thing?

Considering Amazon does 2-day free delivery with POD (over $35), I am surprised the out-of-print games don't all re-publish via Amazon.

Who wouldn't want a freshly minted Palladium Fantasy 1e book to arrive alongside their toilet paper and canned lima beans?

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 30, 2023, 09:58:10 PMTTRPG's are going the way of model trains. There will always be a hardcore fandom, but very much niche, with limited new blood. We lived the glory days, folks, now we settle down in to slow irrelevance.

I don't even know what irrelevance means. None of the music I listen to has been played on the radio in almost 40 years (if ever), but those same bands pack concerts to this day. And even the bands who just play small venues, what's the difference between 50k or 5k or 500 bodies behind you when you're in the mosh pit at the rail of the stage? That's how I feel about playing "irrelevant" RPGs - I have no doubt that 30 years from now I can fill 6 seats at an OSR table.

If my RPG table is the only TTRPG being played in 1000 miles, who cares as long as my players come back for more?

Personally, I don't want to attend massive cons ever again. I'm FAR more interested in attending 150-500 person OSR/RPG cons where everybody is there to celebrate the same thing...without any woketards. 

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 30, 2023, 09:58:10 PMConsidering how popularity has killed, then raped the corpse, of so many hobbies, is fading away even a bad thing?

Oh Lordy, let's kill this hobby tonight when you put it THAT way!

I think there's room for a major shift in playability with TTRPGs. About twenty years ago, board games went through a big change in design, lead by Settlers of Catan and other Eurogames. Even games that didn't fall into the Eurogame grouping had to rethink their design.

Within the past 15 years of TTRPG design, I think noticeable developments include:

• 5th edition was hugely successful, with streamlined play including advantage/disadvantage replacing small mods; and bonus dice instead of fixed bonuses
• Powered by the Apocalypse (PbtA) was a huge trend within indie games, with playbooks and player-only rolls

These are only minor nods, though. Making resolution faster and smoother and reducing bookkeeping has a long way to go within TTRPGs compared to the developments within board games and card games.

I think the best gateway RPG; would have some of the familiar trappings of D&D, but in a simplified fast resolution play style.  Something new players could pick up and roll with, in the very first session.  Not something that keeps you in the dark for multiple sessions, like 1st Edition AD&D did me, back in the mid 1990s.  There are a lot of people who don't have the required patience to stick with a game like that.  They are used to hobbies and games that are quick and easy to pick up on.

Something fun, simple, and fast.  And then, once you're sure you really like the game; here's 60 pages of optional content that can really expand upon the game you're already playing.  Don't nullify what they already enjoy.  Just offer them more optional stuff, that isn't required.  Allow them to choose their own preferred level of depth.

My name is Bob, and I'm a Sorcerer.  I know 5 Spells.

Or:  My name is Amalabalamaha, the Chromatic Sorcerer of the Shining Star.  I know 5 Spells, which I can cast 3 different ways.  I also have 3 innate abilities, which though not incredibly powerful, help personalize my character and make me unique.

 :) I hope bosoms. It is an act of rebellion nowadays. Yet preferably not on dragonborn. Will accept ASCII art bosoms. C-cups or more?  :o

I think we need to look at what made RPGs popular (to the extent that they were) in the past.

One big thing is cost. For the cost of a couple books, you can get endless fun out of it. There are board games with a lot of replay value, but eventually they get stale and you want to move on to a new one, or just break it out a few times a year as a tradition.

The other is the imaginative freedom juxtaposed with structure and rules. That's something that computer games are still a long way off from.

What would make the most sense is a shift away from what computer games are good at. Realistic combat? A game like Dark Souls has that covered. Frantic combat? Diablo III. There's plenty more of course, but there are certain areas that TTRPGs have a very hard time competing in.

So games that really emphasize the strengths, while keeping what made them attractive to begin with. If I had a concrete idea what that is, I'd probably be trying to make it myself.

Quote from: jhkim on January 30, 2023, 10:53:35 PM
Within the past 15 years of TTRPG design, I think noticeable developments include:

• 5th edition was hugely successful, with streamlined play including advantage/disadvantage replacing small mods; and bonus dice instead of fixed bonuses
• Powered by the Apocalypse (PbtA) was a huge trend within indie games, with playbooks and player-only rolls

These existed long before either 5e or PbtA. Those systems only popularized the concepts. That said, there's no shortage of players who still want crunchy, convoluted mechanics (for some reason I can never understand). Streamlining and simplifying gameplay won't be the "next great leap" in the hobby as long as there's a significant subset of player who wants crunch.

I don't think the next evolution would be in mechanics at all, but rather in how we consume and gain access to the hobby. For some people, that might be a virtual playground indistinguishable from a video game. But expansions in POD books and POD miniatures it what I think will pull the hobby away from the clutches of walled-garden VTTs and back to tabletops. Within the next 10 years, most homes will have their own 3d printers, making it possible for players to inexpensively print whatever miniature they want. Download a bestiary pdf and get a bundle of .stl files for each entry.

Quote from: Effete on January 31, 2023, 07:47:08 AM

Quote from: jhkim on January 30, 2023, 10:53:35 PM
Within the past 15 years of TTRPG design, I think noticeable developments include:

• 5th edition was hugely successful, with streamlined play including advantage/disadvantage replacing small mods; and bonus dice instead of fixed bonuses
• Powered by the Apocalypse (PbtA) was a huge trend within indie games, with playbooks and player-only rolls

These existed long before either 5e or PbtA. Those systems only popularized the concepts. That said, there's no shortage of players who still want crunchy, convoluted mechanics (for some reason I can never understand). Streamlining and simplifying gameplay won't be the "next great leap" in the hobby as long as there's a significant subset of player who wants crunch.

I don't think the next evolution would be in mechanics at all, but rather in how we consume and gain access to the hobby. For some people, that might be a virtual playground indistinguishable from a video game. But expansions in POD books and POD miniatures it what I think will pull the hobby away from the clutches of walled-garden VTTs and back to tabletops. Within the next 10 years, most homes will have their own 3d printers, making it possible for players to inexpensively print whatever miniature they want. Download a bestiary pdf and get a bundle of .stl files for each entry.

I would expect this to happen first with tabletop wargames. Games Workshop will lose their shit if that happens.

I'll make a few.

I think computer tech is going to become less and less attainable over the next 5 years because of the semiconductor export bans on China, and the general demographic collapse of Southeast Asia, which will make these devices harder to manufacture. Combine that with our culture of replacing tech devices every few years (no one bothers to maintain their equipment) and you have a serious pinch for electronics. It's nice to think that WotC's marketshare is going to collapse because of how badly they behaved when they attempted to redact the OGL, but I think it's far more likely that they will move the majority of their business online only for online business to become very difficult. On the upside, this could also mean that video game players migrate to ttRPGs, if the situation becomes dire enough.

LGSs really need a more reliable and higher profit product offering than just games. (Food. I'm thinking of food.) It doesn't need to be complex; a freezer filled with frozen pizzas marked up a few dollars, a pantry with popcorn, and a convection oven and microwave is probably enough, but my point is that tabletop games alone does not consistently produce the revenue to run a LGS or enough profit to actually make it worth it. You have to sell a higher profit product.

I think that we are basically tapping out how far games can take single core mechanics, so we will probably start seeing games with two complementing core mechanics used for different things. (This shouldn't really surprise people, seeing how this is almost verbatim how D&D uses saving throws.)

Modular RPGs with mini-transaction expansions rather than monolithic core rulebooks. Core rulebooks are where 95% of indie RPG system revenues come from, and  they barely produce revenue. Besides, I think that with the exception of D&D, RPGs are largely (shudder) undermonetized. No, really. Almost no one in this industry makes more than pocket change. I think it makes more sense to release a free bare-bones core rules and the offer paid expansions, somewhat akin to how GURPS used to work, but on a smaller scale. This would mean developers could more easily maintain revenue and could spend more time on each section, and players could pick and choose which components of the game they want to buy or to implement in each game.

Quote from: migo on January 31, 2023, 07:55:43 AM
I would expect this to happen first with tabletop wargames. Games Workshop will lose their shit if that happens.

If they were smart, they'd get ahead of it now. Start offering STLs that incorporate the Warhammer model bases that can only be used their own painting-handles, then market the fukk out miniature accessories and paints. If they don't already have a design patent on model-base width, they should jump on that now.

There won't be one, at least not in the ways that people usually mean with "big" and "influential". 

What we might get is someone that puts a lot of refinement into a well-crafted product, somehow managing to have a handle on production costs, editing, art, mechanics that are interesting yet streamlined enough, and concepts in the content that mix well together. 

The critics will hate it.  It won't be novel or edgy or "artistic".  It won't cater to pet ideas on design.  It will use standard dice, in standard ways. It will almost assuredly have elves in it  Every last thing in it will have done by someone else before.   It sure as hell won't be political.  Somehow, despite all those limitations, the sum will be greater than the parts.  So it is fun and easy to prepare and play, accessible to beginners and rewarding for GMs who use it.

If you want a history of how that might come about, look at what happens in some kind of crafting, such as modern quilts or what people do with "scrap booking".  You have spurts of "tech" and supposed innovation used for their own sake, then those get used by someone to craft something useful and/or beautiful, who understands that tools are in service of the craft, not the other way around.     

Quote from: Fheredin on January 31, 2023, 08:16:28 AM
I think computer tech is going to become less and less attainable over the next 5 years because of the semiconductor export bans on China

Only Extreme Ultra Violet (EUV) tech is banned to China, they are working on banning the older Deep Ultra Violet (DUV) stuff but China still has the equipment they have and can produce cheap slow chips needed for 95% of the electronics out there. Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Singapore, and the a number of sites in the USA (including some being built in Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona that will come online in the next year) will ramp up the production of EUV.

The whole chip crisis is a short term what if scenario that only really gets bad if China invades Taiwan and takes Taiwan EUV production out.

Quote from: Fheredin on January 31, 2023, 08:16:28 AM
Modular RPGs with mini-transaction expansions rather than monolithic core rulebooks. Core rulebooks are where 95% of indie RPG system revenues come from, and  they barely produce revenue. Besides, I think that with the exception of D&D, RPGs are largely (shudder) undermonetized. No, really. Almost no one in this industry makes more than pocket change. I think it makes more sense to release a free bare-bones core rules and the offer paid expansions, somewhat akin to how GURPS used to work, but on a smaller scale. This would mean developers could more easily maintain revenue and could spend more time on each section, and players could pick and choose which components of the game they want to buy or to implement in each game.

Are you actually advocating for game developers to provide customers with LESS value for their money, then string them along with breadcrumbs? Hahaha! Good luck with that. I'm sure there are some stupid schmucks who will fall for it, but I've learned to spot a raw deal on sight.

Quote from: Effete on January 31, 2023, 08:36:26 AM

Quote from: Fheredin on January 31, 2023, 08:16:28 AM
Modular RPGs with mini-transaction expansions rather than monolithic core rulebooks. Core rulebooks are where 95% of indie RPG system revenues come from, and  they barely produce revenue. Besides, I think that with the exception of D&D, RPGs are largely (shudder) undermonetized. No, really. Almost no one in this industry makes more than pocket change. I think it makes more sense to release a free bare-bones core rules and the offer paid expansions, somewhat akin to how GURPS used to work, but on a smaller scale. This would mean developers could more easily maintain revenue and could spend more time on each section, and players could pick and choose which components of the game they want to buy or to implement in each game.

Are you actually advocating for game developers to provide customers with LESS value for their money, then string them along with breadcrumbs? Hahaha! Good luck with that. I'm sure there are some stupid schmucks who will fall for it, but I've learned to spot a raw deal on sight.

You might be able to spot a raw deal, but how did you read that and come up with less value for money? Free core rules. Only pay for what interests you. A libertarian's dream.

Quote from: FingerRod on January 31, 2023, 08:45:13 AM

Quote from: Effete on January 31, 2023, 08:36:26 AM

Quote from: Fheredin on January 31, 2023, 08:16:28 AM
Modular RPGs with mini-transaction expansions rather than monolithic core rulebooks. Core rulebooks are where 95% of indie RPG system revenues come from, and  they barely produce revenue. Besides, I think that with the exception of D&D, RPGs are largely (shudder) undermonetized. No, really. Almost no one in this industry makes more than pocket change. I think it makes more sense to release a free bare-bones core rules and the offer paid expansions, somewhat akin to how GURPS used to work, but on a smaller scale. This would mean developers could more easily maintain revenue and could spend more time on each section, and players could pick and choose which components of the game they want to buy or to implement in each game.

Are you actually advocating for game developers to provide customers with LESS value for their money, then string them along with breadcrumbs? Hahaha! Good luck with that. I'm sure there are some stupid schmucks who will fall for it, but I've learned to spot a raw deal on sight.

You might be able to spot a raw deal, but how did you read that and come up with less value for money? Free core rules. Only pay for what interests you. A libertarian's dream.

Ahh, missed the "free" part. Thanks!

I think a publisher could do well emulating what some video games do with "seasons". Seasons take a formula that works and refresh it for a short time to keep people interested.

1. Publish a basic rulebook. This is thin and meant to be referenced at the table. Coil-bound would be great.

2. Then, every season (e.g.: 1 year):

     a. Publish a lore book. This is nice hardcover that makes for pleasant evening reading. No crunch at all in this book and, honestly, most players won't read it, so it's more like a backgrounder for the GM.

     b. Publish a sandbox reference to go with the lore book. This would include a map, random encounters, sketches of adventure sites, etc.

     c. Publish adventures that are based on the lore book and sandbox reference. These flesh out the adventure sites and contain new creatures, rules modifications, new spells, whatever.

Quote from: rytrasmi on January 31, 2023, 11:18:06 AM
I think a publisher could do well emulating what some video games do with "seasons". Seasons take a formula that works and refresh it for a short time to keep people interested.

1. Publish a basic rulebook. This is thin and meant to be referenced at the table. Coil-bound would be great.

2. Then, every season (e.g.: 1 year):

     a. Publish a lore book. This is nice hardcover that makes for pleasant evening reading. No crunch at all in this book and, honestly, most players won't read it, so it's more like a backgrounder for the GM.

     b. Publish a sandbox reference to go with the lore book. This would include a map, random encounters, sketches of adventure sites, etc.

     c. Publish adventures that are based on the lore book and sandbox reference. These flesh out the adventure sites and contain new creatures, rules modifications, new spells, whatever.

I'd buy that if (b) had enough material for a sandbox campaign, something like Gygax's Yggsburgh say.  Or Skyrim in a box, without the major questlines (Alduin/Dawnguard/Dragonborn) - those would come in (c).

Hmm. Apart from Yggsburgh/Castle Zagyg, I can't really think of any print examples of this. Yet it seems a great approach.

Quote from: Ruprecht on January 31, 2023, 08:34:04 AM

Quote from: Fheredin on January 31, 2023, 08:16:28 AM
I think computer tech is going to become less and less attainable over the next 5 years because of the semiconductor export bans on China

Only Extreme Ultra Violet (EUV) tech is banned to China, they are working on banning the older Deep Ultra Violet (DUV) stuff but China still has the equipment they have and can produce cheap slow chips needed for 95% of the electronics out there. Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Singapore, and the a number of sites in the USA (including some being built in Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona that will come online in the next year) will ramp up the production of EUV.

The whole chip crisis is a short term what if scenario that only really gets bad if China invades Taiwan and takes Taiwan EUV production out.

Just got watching this on the chip issue with China.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFCJoq9iaik

I've worked for the Dutch company mentioned in the video for the last decade. All of what he is talking about is the reason the Koreans and Tawainese are building chip fabs in the Southwest USA so computer chips are unlikely to be a problem. Then again that guy is predicting a total collapse of world trade in the same time frame and if that happens computer prices (and the price of everything else) will jump.

Also this link has some information relating to the video:
https://www.battleswarmblog.com/?p=54012

Quote from: Jam The MF on January 30, 2023, 06:54:53 PM
What will it be?  I'm not talking about a license.  I mean ideas, mechanics, methods, settings, style, etc.

What will be the most influential new thing?

Scratch and sniff beastiaries.

Quote from: Effete on January 31, 2023, 08:52:30 AM

Quote from: FingerRod on January 31, 2023, 08:45:13 AM

Quote from: Effete on January 31, 2023, 08:36:26 AM

Quote from: Fheredin on January 31, 2023, 08:16:28 AM
Modular RPGs with mini-transaction expansions rather than monolithic core rulebooks. Core rulebooks are where 95% of indie RPG system revenues come from, and  they barely produce revenue. Besides, I think that with the exception of D&D, RPGs are largely (shudder) undermonetized. No, really. Almost no one in this industry makes more than pocket change. I think it makes more sense to release a free bare-bones core rules and the offer paid expansions, somewhat akin to how GURPS used to work, but on a smaller scale. This would mean developers could more easily maintain revenue and could spend more time on each section, and players could pick and choose which components of the game they want to buy or to implement in each game.

Are you actually advocating for game developers to provide customers with LESS value for their money, then string them along with breadcrumbs? Hahaha! Good luck with that. I'm sure there are some stupid schmucks who will fall for it, but I've learned to spot a raw deal on sight.

You might be able to spot a raw deal, but how did you read that and come up with less value for money? Free core rules. Only pay for what interests you. A libertarian's dream.

Ahh, missed the "free" part. Thanks!

Anytime brochacho. I do get where you were coming from. We do not need the Call of Duty model anywhere near this industry.

Quote from: rytrasmi on January 31, 2023, 11:18:06 AM
I think a publisher could do well emulating what some video games do with "seasons". Seasons take a formula that works and refresh it for a short time to keep people interested.

1. Publish a basic rulebook. This is thin and meant to be referenced at the table. Coil-bound would be great.

2. Then, every season (e.g.: 1 year):

     a. Publish a lore book. This is nice hardcover that makes for pleasant evening reading. No crunch at all in this book and, honestly, most players won't read it, so it's more like a backgrounder for the GM.

     b. Publish a sandbox reference to go with the lore book. This would include a map, random encounters, sketches of adventure sites, etc.

     c. Publish adventures that are based on the lore book and sandbox reference. These flesh out the adventure sites and contain new creatures, rules modifications, new spells, whatever.

I love this.

I'd also like an old school Strategic Review type model, complete with the old typeface. But...I don't that that would be the next big thing :)

No one predicted roleplaying games before D&D.
No one predicted collectible card games before M:tG.

While it is a fun hypothetical, no one will be able to predict the next big thing.

However about every 10 years or so some huge thing seems to happen to tabletop gaming. Wargames in the 60's. RPG's in the 70's. CCG's in the 90's. D20 in the 00's. Crowdfunding around the 10's. Resurgence of D&D in the 20's.

Quote from: Thor's Nads on January 31, 2023, 01:49:23 PM
No one predicted roleplaying games before D&D.
No one predicted collectible card games before M:tG.

While it is a fun hypothetical, no one will be able to predict the next big thing.

However about every 10 years or so some huge thing seems to happen to tabletop gaming. Wargames in the 60's. RPG's in the 70's. CCG's in the 90's. D20 in the 00's. Crowdfunding around the 10's. Resurgence of D&D in the 20's.

I vote naked chicks wrestling in pudding for the 30's, let's make it happen!

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 31, 2023, 02:01:21 PM
I vote naked chicks wrestling in pudding for the 30's, let's make it happen!

I don't see how WE can make that happen short of gender reassignment surgery.

Anyhow, I would like to see the return of the cheap, floppy game book and supplements.  I don't think it'll happen but there you go.

As far as the POD store solution.  The industry is actively resistant to it.  But there are decent glue binding sleeve systems.  It would also go hand in hand with 3d printing services.

But the big one that would break things wide open would be for Hasbro to establish D&D as a religion and thus get it tax exempt status and charitable donation deductions for gaming purchases.  As great as all thst sounds, the best part would be declaring game night a religous holiday so everyone in the group could get off from work.

Quote from: Effete on January 31, 2023, 07:47:08 AM

Quote from: jhkim on January 30, 2023, 10:53:35 PM
Within the past 15 years of TTRPG design, I think noticeable developments include:

• 5th edition was hugely successful, with streamlined play including advantage/disadvantage replacing small mods; and bonus dice instead of fixed bonuses
• Powered by the Apocalypse (PbtA) was a huge trend within indie games, with playbooks and player-only rolls

These existed long before either 5e or PbtA. Those systems only popularized the concepts.

Apologies. Yes, I agree that they popularized the concepts. And also, they proved that those concepts were popular with players.

Quote from: Effete on January 31, 2023, 07:47:08 AM
That said, there's no shortage of players who still want crunchy, convoluted mechanics (for some reason I can never understand). Streamlining and simplifying gameplay won't be the "next great leap" in the hobby as long as there's a significant subset of player who wants crunch.

Playability isn't the same thing as simplicity. Board games like Agricola or Wingspan can be quite complex, but they are still designed very differently from 1980s complex board games like Avalon Hill's Titan or Squad Leader. It's the difference of complexity that's among the components on the table, versus flipping back and forth to different pages in a big rulebook.

5E and PbtA still have a lot of crunch - and Blades in the Dark has higher crunch than standard PbtA, but the crunch is more organized around physical components. Take the example of a bonus die. Rather than granting a +2 to a roll, a 5E bard gives +1d4, which is easily represented at the table by the bard player having a handful of d4s and handing them out to players who get the bonus.

RPGs have different play dynamics than board games, so I don't think this will make the same difference - but it is something I think about.

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 31, 2023, 02:01:21 PM
I vote naked chicks wrestling in pudding for the 30's, let's make it happen!

You do understand that these days it would mean dudes in drag, right? Well, you said nude so it'd be even worse.

🤮

Regarding wire bound for print on demand books, I actually prefer that format.  I love lay flat reference books and note books.  But, a heavy card stock or plastic cover would be nice to keep all together and protect it.  You could also go with one of those page protectors so you could slip in a custom printed cover and maybe some card stock to stiffen it.  I don't need an art book, I want a economical and useful rules book.

Quote from: FingerRod on January 31, 2023, 01:41:01 PM

Quote from: Effete on January 31, 2023, 08:52:30 AM
Ahh, missed the "free" part. Thanks!

Anytime brochacho. I do get where you were coming from. We do not need the Call of Duty model anywhere near this industry.

Yeah, I'm still just a stupid hooman.

The thing about Fheredin's suggestion is that it already exists. Plenty of developers offer stripped-down rulesets for free (DnD Basic 5e, Cyberpunk Red Jumpstart (& CPR: Easy Edition), Savage Worlds Test Drive, etc.) that players can try without commitment. As a marketing strategy, it seems to work, so maybe other developers would implement it into their core business model.

Quote from: Thor's Nads on January 31, 2023, 04:32:08 PM

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 31, 2023, 02:01:21 PM
I vote naked chicks wrestling in pudding for the 30's, let's make it happen!

You do understand that these days it would mean dudes in drag, right? Well, you said nude so it'd be even worse.

🤮

Obviously it would require a big cultural swing in the late 20's, leading to a glorious 30's involving chocolate wrestling, no eclairs welcome.

Quote from: Effete on January 31, 2023, 05:10:09 PM

Quote from: FingerRod on January 31, 2023, 01:41:01 PM

Quote from: Effete on January 31, 2023, 08:52:30 AM
Ahh, missed the "free" part. Thanks!

Anytime brochacho. I do get where you were coming from. We do not need the Call of Duty model anywhere near this industry.

Yeah, I'm still just a stupid hooman.

The thing about Fheredin's suggestion is that it already exists. Plenty of developers offer stripped-down rulesets for free (DnD Basic 5e, Cyberpunk Red Jumpstart (& CPR: Easy Edition), Savage Worlds Test Drive, etc.) that players can try without commitment. As a marketing strategy, it seems to work, so maybe other developers would implement it into their core business model.

Many systems do offer free sample core rule pamphlets so you can get acquainted with the system without buying or borrowing the whole rulebook. However, this is usually in addition to a core rulebook you can do pretty much everything from. What I'm suggesting is that developers should offer slightly larger free samples (big enough that you can tell what the system stands for and that experienced homebrewers could run the system, too small for anyone to feel fully comfortable with it), and discontinue the monolithic core rulebook.

Most of the time, new editions are about adding a feature or two (advantage mechanics are very popular because they're easy to implement), changing a bit of the layout and artwork, and resell an almost identical product. I understand that small publishers are starving, but I also think that's predatory market practice. I don't think Call of C'thulu should've issued an edition with Penalty Dice and Bonus Dice; people play BRP for the transparent odds of success, so the 5e ripoff mechanics undermined a critical feature of the older editions. But it was a great excuse to call it a new edition.

The problem is the way I suggest, you have to actually risk your core rulebook, which is your breadwinner product, in a gamble to increase the monetizable space your game occupies. A starving publisher is going to really, really not want to do that, and especially not be the first to do that.

Quote from: Ruprecht on January 31, 2023, 08:34:04 AM

Quote from: Fheredin on January 31, 2023, 08:16:28 AM
I think computer tech is going to become less and less attainable over the next 5 years because of the semiconductor export bans on China

Only Extreme Ultra Violet (EUV) tech is banned to China, they are working on banning the older Deep Ultra Violet (DUV) stuff but China still has the equipment they have and can produce cheap slow chips needed for 95% of the electronics out there. Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Singapore, and the a number of sites in the USA (including some being built in Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona that will come online in the next year) will ramp up the production of EUV.

The whole chip crisis is a short term what if scenario that only really gets bad if China invades Taiwan and takes Taiwan EUV production out.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression that China has put it's own chip buildout on hold until they can secure foreign investment.

I am not saying chips will forever disappear, nor is this going to happen tomorrow. (Your average computer sold because of COVID probably has about a year of life left to it). But I do think that we're in for a definite "kathunk" in the markets as the investment capital from the Boomers dries up, the labor pools available for development and manufacture age into retirement and repatriate back to the US because everyone in SE Asia has terminal demographics, and in general, global trade shrinks back to just trade within the Americas.

Is that a recipe for no chips? No. But it is a recipe for stagnating tech (if not a regression generation as the new industrial plant fixes teething problems) and a whole lot of product price inflation. And this is the exact moment WotC wants to go all-digital.

I don't think that's going to go well for them.

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 31, 2023, 02:01:21 PM
I vote naked chicks wrestling in pudding for the 30's, let's make it happen!

As long as it has bosoms I heartily agree. :D

:) Also can we have nights that celebrate dietary variety?: sugar-free pudding, gluten-free pudding, vegan jell-o  ???, and full sugar, starch, animal bone gelatin wresting -- with bacon bit sprinkles!  ;D

Quote from: Fheredin on January 31, 2023, 08:01:51 PM
I am not saying chips will forever disappear, nor is this going to happen tomorrow. (Your average computer sold because of COVID probably has about a year of life left to it). But I do think that we're in for a definite "kathunk" in the markets as the investment capital from the Boomers dries up, the labor pools available for development and manufacture age into retirement and repatriate back to the US because everyone in SE Asia has terminal demographics, and in general, global trade shrinks back to just trade within the Americas.

Is that a recipe for no chips? No. But it is a recipe for stagnating tech (if not a regression generation as the new industrial plant fixes teething problems) and a whole lot of product price inflation. And this is the exact moment WotC wants to go all-digital.

I don't think that's going to go well for them.

I think you put too much weight on Chinese chips. They have not made high end chips since the Trump administration cut them off from the tools required to make high end chips. I suspect the fallout will be along the lines of the death of the internet of everything which would require the slower chips in fridges and toasters and things we never had chips in before.

Quote from: zircher on January 31, 2023, 04:48:10 PM
Regarding wire bound for print on demand books, I actually prefer that format.  I love lay flat reference books and note books.  But, a heavy card stock or plastic cover would be nice to keep all together and protect it.  You could also go with one of those page protectors so you could slip in a custom printed cover and maybe some card stock to stiffen it. I don't need an art book, I want a economical and useful rules book.

In the future perhaps people might print their PDF and wire-bind at home. The machines cost $50-100 on Amazon.

I know this is a dream but I would love to see box sets come back.

Everything in the box ready to go making starting a game easy.

Sell supplements and adventures and add ons to make more money.

A guy can dream.

It's fitting players in the box that gets tricky.

Quote from: GhostNinja on February 01, 2023, 10:37:26 AM
I know this is a dream but I would love to see box sets come back.

Everything in the box ready to go making starting a game easy.

Sell supplements and adventures and add ons to make more money.

A guy can dream.

Free League puts out a lot of box sets. Very high quality.

Quote from: Fheredin on January 31, 2023, 08:16:28 AM
I think computer tech is going to become less and less attainable over the next 5 years because of the semiconductor export bans on China, and the general demographic collapse of Southeast Asia, which will make these devices harder to manufacture. Combine that with our culture of replacing tech devices every few years (no one bothers to maintain their equipment) and you have a serious pinch for electronics.

This is a short term problem at worst, as chip production is shifting back to the U.S.  A quick search showed 11 new fabs being built in the U.S., with 6 due to be completed in the next 2 years.

In just over an hour I can print a PDF, gather in a home made press, drill holes and sew it together with some bookbinding mull (open weave cloth). Then I glue a 2-3mm thick greyboard cover and attach a spine. Cover that with an A3+ printed cover to cover colour sheet and glue on inner (white though I have used coloured or printed pages) cover and a section to cover the binding and done.

A machine that could collate, drill, sew and make ready for cover attaching would be a nice little earner. Setup is the highest cost and ongoing costs for ink and paper with drill bits (snapped a few). Whether you could then charge enough to make a profit vs waiting for a couple of weeks for a Drivethru POD is debatable. Last POD I bought was Dragon Warriors, came in about a week. Quality is excellent as you'd expect.

(https://i.postimg.cc/FztFhB8B/books.png)

Some books I've done vs POD. Edges might seem a bit fluffy on the books because I used Paintshop pro to remove/trim the background.

Covers are the sticking point and take a while mostly to decide on layout and where to position titles. I tend to customise those and quite often break bullet stoppers into separate books (all taking extra time/materials). Against the Darkmaster was split into 5 books and Deluxe Tunnels and Trolls four.

Where I won't print are books that are ink heavy like Mork Borg and those that have full printed background cover to cover. I much prefer books that are black ink on white background as my eyes aren't great these days, so there are a few limitations onto what I can print/bind. I suppose I could try but it would need pretty thick paper or expensive coated stuff. I generally use 120GSM which is thick paper (82lb in yank measures) down to 90 gsm (60lb) which just about prevents show through.

At some point I will pre prepare the cover ready to go on and see if I can print/bind/finish in under an hour. Glue drying time is an issue so a shop would probably say 'ready in x hours' I would guess. 

Quote from: rytrasmi on February 01, 2023, 10:57:20 AM

Free League puts out a lot of box sets. Very high quality.

Well that is awesome they do that.  I, however cant stand their system so I wont buy their products but its cool someone is putting out box sets.

Quote from: Jam The MF on January 30, 2023, 06:54:53 PM
What will it be?  I'm not talking about a license.  I mean ideas, mechanics, methods, settings, style, etc.

What will be the most influential new thing?

My FLGS is running 3d printers to print minis on demand. I could see a make-your-PC kiosk like the Kodak machine in the drug store where you can get your lady gnome druid with scimitar riding a dire badger in 28mm.

Quote from: Effete on January 31, 2023, 07:47:08 AM

Quote from: jhkim on January 30, 2023, 10:53:35 PM
Within the past 15 years of TTRPG design, I think noticeable developments include:

• 5th edition was hugely successful, with streamlined play including advantage/disadvantage replacing small mods; and bonus dice instead of fixed bonuses
• Powered by the Apocalypse (PbtA) was a huge trend within indie games, with playbooks and player-only rolls

These existed long before either 5e or PbtA. Those systems only popularized the concepts.

True. But to the victor goes the spoils.

Unfortunately I find both to be too much on one side and too little on the other.

PBtA games are just too thin on the PC side for long campaigns. And have campaign play quirks from being so stripped down.

5e is deceptively complex and fiddly beyond the first few levels. In fact the bonus action, and the use of bonus dice for PC abilities were implemented against the playtest feedback they received - because the designers just wanted to anyway.

5e's just simplified compared to 4e and 3.5, but it is not properly 'Streamlined', and still has a lot of quirks that could be worked out.

We have yet to see the game that strikes that sweet spot between PBtA, and 5e, fully implementing most of the 'design principles' that they popularized.

Quote from: David Johansen on January 30, 2023, 07:38:21 PM
In store print on demand.  Everything ever in print all the time.

How about taking print on demand to the next level with customization. The buyer goes to the web page (or uses an app, whatever) and makes a variety of selections: What setting to use, which Classes and races are available, whether or not Alignment exists, Vancian or non-Vancian magic, etc.

Then a one-of-a-kind rulebook is produced and printed on demand. Now there's no need for house rules as your house rules are already impeded into the rulebook. And there's no need for a massive, multi-genre rulebook that the GM has to slog through.

So, we've talked about it for GURPS for years.  Really the fifth edition of GURPS will be an app plain and simple.

Clash Bowlery was at one point working on a game design database that would let you enter parameters and have a game pop out.

Quote from: hedgehobbit on February 06, 2023, 10:44:09 PM

Quote from: David Johansen on January 30, 2023, 07:38:21 PM
In store print on demand.  Everything ever in print all the time.

How about taking print on demand to the next level with customization. The buyer goes to the web page (or uses an app, whatever) and makes a variety of selections: What setting to use, which Classes and races are available, whether or not Alignment exists, Vancian or non-Vancian magic, etc.

Then a one-of-a-kind rulebook is produced and printed on demand. Now there's no need for house rules as your house rules are already impeded into the rulebook. And there's no need for a massive, multi-genre rulebook that the GM has to slog through.

This would be perfect for GURPS.

Though, you know, once we can combine CGI scans of ourselves, AI DMs, and AI Players we can not only have a session when nobody shows up, we can have a youtube channel to show that it happened.

Quote from: hedgehobbit on February 06, 2023, 10:44:09 PM

Quote from: David Johansen on January 30, 2023, 07:38:21 PM
In store print on demand.  Everything ever in print all the time.

How about taking print on demand to the next level with customization. The buyer goes to the web page (or uses an app, whatever) and makes a variety of selections: What setting to use, which Classes and races are available, whether or not Alignment exists, Vancian or non-Vancian magic, etc.

Then a one-of-a-kind rulebook is produced and printed on demand. Now there's no need for house rules as your house rules are already impeded into the rulebook. And there's no need for a massive, multi-genre rulebook that the GM has to slog through.

That is a most excellent, idea.

Quote from: migo on January 31, 2023, 07:55:43 AM

Quote from: Effete on January 31, 2023, 07:47:08 AM

Quote from: jhkim on January 30, 2023, 10:53:35 PM
Within the past 15 years of TTRPG design, I think noticeable developments include:

• 5th edition was hugely successful, with streamlined play including advantage/disadvantage replacing small mods; and bonus dice instead of fixed bonuses
• Powered by the Apocalypse (PbtA) was a huge trend within indie games, with playbooks and player-only rolls

These existed long before either 5e or PbtA. Those systems only popularized the concepts. That said, there's no shortage of players who still want crunchy, convoluted mechanics (for some reason I can never understand). Streamlining and simplifying gameplay won't be the "next great leap" in the hobby as long as there's a significant subset of player who wants crunch.

I don't think the next evolution would be in mechanics at all, but rather in how we consume and gain access to the hobby. For some people, that might be a virtual playground indistinguishable from a video game. But expansions in POD books and POD miniatures it what I think will pull the hobby away from the clutches of walled-garden VTTs and back to tabletops. Within the next 10 years, most homes will have their own 3d printers, making it possible for players to inexpensively print whatever miniature they want. Download a bestiary pdf and get a bundle of .stl files for each entry.

I would expect this to happen first with tabletop wargames. Games Workshop will lose their shit if that happens.

"Hello, Games Workshop has noticed that you are currently printing an unlicensed Space Marine figure. The Citadel kill bot has been activated and is headed to your position. Would you like to browse our selection of official GW coffins?"

Quote from: Thor's Nads on January 30, 2023, 09:49:35 PM

Quote from: David Johansen on January 30, 2023, 07:38:21 PM
In store print on demand.  Everything ever in print all the time.

Spot on. Brick and mortar stores will always be necessary. Customers will always want to peruse through aisles and get their hands on physical product. With in-store POD the store will no longer have to carry an expensive inventory or sell out of a popular item. The printing technology will allow them to print while the customer waits with whatever kind of binding or collector's edition cover they want. Docutech printers already do this, the quality will continue to improve.

This will spread out into many other industries like hardware stores being able to print the parts you need. Yes, metal, glass, virtually any material can be 3d printed. SpaceX prints its rocket engines.

Maybe someday they'll figure out how to print food from ink wells of the basic flavors. Wouldn't that be something?

3d printing is every bit as incredible as the AI tech which is starting to overturn entire industries. We are going to see as much change over the next couple of decades as someone who lived through the 20th century experienced.

On demand, high speed 3d printing is the next wave of everything. For gaming, having 3D printed minis in say 15 minutes, or a quality bound book or custom dice while you wait will help fend the tide of VTT gaming.

And food? Well 3D food is already here. Can I get a side of bacon with my DMG?

https://savoreat.com/what-is-3d-meat-how-is-it-made-and-what-are-its-benefits/#:~:text=3D%20meat%20or%203D%20printed,'%20into%20meat%2Dlike%20forms.