Prompted of course by the 5e discussion, I was wondering what people would consider the best introductory/starter sets for any RPG. The three I can think of that are widely praised are:
1) 1981 Moldvay Basic D&D - 64 pages, very clear and concise, particularly notable for how well it leads new GMs through creating their own dungeon adventures. Feels like the distilled essence of D&D.
2) 1983 Mentzer Basic D&D - building off Moldvay, probably the most famous starter set of all time. Perhaps most notable for the choose-your-path adventure with Bargle the Infamous and Aleena that featured genuine (for many players) pathos, and got people hooked right in to fantasy adventure.
3) 2010 Pathfinder Beginner Box (reprint Jan 2014) - notable for its slick presentation, lavish components, and how comprehensive it is, covering wilderness and city adventuring as well as Moldvay/Mentzer style dungeoneering.
Are there other good starter sets - how about the Dragon Age one? I saw the Star Wars Edge of the Empire one criticised, is that no good? How about the later TSR stuff like Thunder Rift?
Edit: Oh, I have a battered copy of the Classic Traveller box from the early '80s, that deserves a mention as it's pretty well the full game in a box. But that was an era of much shorter games, I'm not sure if it wouldn't just have been considered the full Traveller RPG minus supplements. Is the need for starter sets mostly a D&D phenomenon?
You have to define your terms better.
Is a starter set a box set with a rule book notes etc.
Or does it have to be an introductory piece for a wider game.
So the MERP box set was great but not really a start set (although tangentially I guess its a starter for rolemaster.)
Daredevils great box set but also the complete game so not a start set.
CoC first edition box set great, but whole game not starter set.
Actually Mentzer Basic D&D can probably be cast as a complete game not a starter set as well
Stormbringer box set, James bond box set etc etc ....
I woudl say the most fun from any box set was Boot Hill. We played that beast to death the map was excellent and the overhead views of the guys awesome. Not great as an RPG maybe but definitely the box set that gave me the most fun beyond the core rules.
Quote from: jibbajibba;752144You have to define your terms better.
Is a starter set a box set with a rule book notes etc.
Or does it have to be an introductory piece for a wider game.
Yeah, I wondered about that myself when I remembered my Traveller box, hence edit above. I guess it has to be introductory in some sense to a wider game, so I wouldn't count Daredevils or other obviously complete-in-box games.
I think the Holmes/Moldvay/Mentzer etc boxes definitely count because there is a very clear sense that 3 levels is not the whole game; your Mentzer Fighter-3 certainly can't solo a red dragon as shown on the box cover. The Pathfinder box really is more complete than those three, and has a similar scope to many complete RPGs, but is clearly intended as an introduction to a bigger game.
I like the Moldvay Basic as it really eased you into the whole thing so well.
Small note. The Keep on the Borderlands pack-in module actually has more rules in it. It is essentially an extension of the DM section.
The Mentzer Basic just never grabbed me. Mostly it was the layout. It felt off. But that was a problem for me with nearly all TSRs product from that particular era. The layout of the text was... Cold? Mechanical? Otherwise pretty good if a bit too overly wordy.
The MSH basic was ok. Got the job done and set the stage for the real game.
That is about the sum of my experiences with actual Basic starters.
The pack in Basic Starter for Star Frontiers was kinda meh. Glad that wasnt a starter all on its own.
2nd ed Gamma World has much the same approach as the BX starter. A chunk of rules are in the pack in module.
Quote from: Omega;752161The Mentzer Basic just never grabbed me. Mostly it was the layout. It felt off. But that was a problem for me with nearly all TSRs product from that particular era. The layout of the text was... Cold? Mechanical? Otherwise pretty good if a bit too overly wordy.
I agree, I find the Moldvay layout much better, and I use it a lot more often than Mentzer. I did use Mentzer with my son as he specifically requested a game with Elmore art and dragon-riding PCs.
Moldvay of course is great from the old days. The purple Alpha Dawn Star Frontiers was pretty good. I was very happy with Dragon Age, I think that's the boxed set that is closest to Moldvay in ease of use and completeness. If I knew a kid I was trying to get them into Roleplaying I would without a doubt use Dragon Age Set 1, especially if they have heard of it. For the people looking for the Holy Grail of the new basic, DA was it, it just wasn't D&D.
FASA Trek was a complete game, not a starter but Holy Christ was chargen fun. I must have made half the crew of a Constitution class cruiser. :o
1) The Star Wars Introductory Adventure Game by WEG. Everything you needed to play and conversion rules for when you wanted to buy more. Dice, maps, and cardboard fold standers included. Hands down the winner, even beats my other favorites.
2) Starter Traveller. Hey, did you know it is a free download? (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/80190/CT-ST-Starter-Traveller?term=starter+traveller)
3) Pathfinder Beginner's Box
Now, with each of these you could get about a year's worth of weekly sessions in before the lack of informative depth became a problem. You don't have to necessarily buy anything else.
This guy-
(http://dailyencounter.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/TSR1070.jpg)
Rules explained in a very simple programmed way with cards, solo adventure, support to level 5 (iirc), miniatures, counters, poster map of a dungeon. I didn't start with this one but it always seemed the best one to me for actually teaching beginners how to play.
Quote from: mhensley;752180This guy-
(http://dailyencounter.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/TSR1070.jpg)
Rules explained in a very simple programmed way with cards, solo adventure, support to level 5 (iirc), miniatures, counters, poster map of a dungeon. I didn't start with this one but it always seemed the best one to me for actually teaching beginners how to play.
I am obviously biased, having started with this bad boy, but I concur. The solo adventure, broken down in installments for each chapter of the rules... genius.
Quote from: mhensley;752180This guy-
(http://dailyencounter.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/TSR1070.jpg)
Rules explained in a very simple programmed way with cards, solo adventure, support to level 5 (iirc), miniatures, counters, poster map of a dungeon. I didn't start with this one but it always seemed the best one to me for actually teaching beginners how to play.
Found some info on it here - http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/17533/the-new-easy-to-master-dungeons-dragons
It looks nearly identical to the TSR 'Dragonquest' game I have.
Quote from: mhensley;752180Rules explained in a very simple programmed way with cards, solo adventure, support to level 5 (iirc), miniatures, counters, poster map of a dungeon. I didn't start with this one but it always seemed the best one to me for actually teaching beginners how to play.
Agreed. I have a lot of love for this one as "My First D&D".
In retrospect, however, I feel both Moldvay and Mentzer accomplished the same with less pages/fiddly bits. The poster map and counters could lead a kid to believe that all dungeons must be played on poster board with counters/miniatures, as happened to me. It was almost a year before I learned better.
Quote from: jibbajibba;752144So the MERP box set was great but not really a start set (although tangentially I guess its a starter for rolemaster.)
Daredevils great box set but also the complete game so not a start set.
CoC first edition box set great, but whole game not starter set.
ules.
I forget what it was called precisely, but think they did a simplified version of MEEP called Lord of the Rings, that was an excellent introductory boxed set. Been ages since I read it, but it really stood out to me at the time (this had to have been around 1990 or so).
Edit: just looked it up and believe it was Lord of the Rings Adventure Game, but i might be wrong.
My vote would be for Ancient Odysseys: Treasure Awaits! by Precis Intermedia. Small box, four low page count pamphlets, one of which is a solo adventure. Rules are very straight forward, character generation takes about five seconds, and the game itself structured (there is an order of events when one enters a new room). For some reason this game always flies under the general rpg radar.
(http://www.pigames.net/blog_files/ta_contents.jpg)
contents sans box.
Yeah, black box basic. The only thing that would have improved it was real miniatures.
It might look similar, but Dragon Quest was a nerfed system that tried to compete with Hero Quest but lacked the hard core toy value that Milton Bradley could produce. The black box was a full rule book that was much nicer than the one in the red box. There was also a GM Screen / Card File system with rules summaries. It was a great set.
The Lord of the Rings Adventure game was a nice little system that was let down by its condescending tone and overly limited setting. I've always wanted to see it fleshed out more and have regretted that I let it go and never got the two supplements. Sadly ICE never would listen when it came to that idea.
I'd also like to note that a starter that isn't a complete game is just an advertisement that you had to pay for and thus shouldn't even be in the running.
I'd like to say GURPS Lite, but without any setting support or help for a new GM it's a lovely handout but it's a horrible starter. A few of the GURPS books that came with it included like WWII and Vorsigken (whatever) might count.
Marvel Super Heroes original boxed set (the yellow one). Two rulebooks that explained the rules step-by-step in a way a little kid can not only understand, but read to himself. Dice. Character cards. Awesome map. Short adventure.
There are enough powers and campaign advice in that box to keep you going in perpetuity, without ever "graduating" to the later-published Advanced set.
A lot of these are great. I'd add:
BRP (1980) -- "play components included," 16 pages.
Adventures on Tékumel Part 1: Growing up on Tékumel
Arguably Prince Valiant as a beginner route to Pendragon.
I thought hard about adding Dungeon as an intro to the core concepts and crawl genre bt the DNA is just a little too different and the evolutionary path too vague. Still might be good to talk pro/con as an edge case.
Moldvay basic D&D, possibly Holmes.
Quote from: thedungeondelver;752200Moldvay basic D&D, possibly Holmes.
I found Mentzer better for making the rules crystal clear for a dead beginner, but think Moldvay plays better over time. I would want both! :-)
Quote from: econobus;752199I thought hard about adding Dungeon as an intro to the core concepts and crawl genre bt the DNA is just a little too different and the evolutionary path too vague. Still might be good to talk pro/con as an edge case.
Interesting - been playing
Dungeon! a lot with my son recently, and we've added a fair bit of roleplay elements, houseruled to eg allow PvP combat and item gifting/trading, etc. The very simple base system encourages experimentation in a way that heavier stuff doesn't - we have
Descent too, but haven't been able to understand it, and I gave away
Wrath of Ashardalon recently after deciding it wasn't worth the effort. Something with Descent's play components but complexity similar to Dungeon! would be fantastic.
Quote from: VectorSigma;752198Marvel Super Heroes original boxed set (the yellow one). Two rulebooks that explained the rules step-by-step in a way a little kid can not only understand, but read to himself. Dice. Character cards. Awesome map. Short adventure.
There are enough powers and campaign advice in that box to keep you going in perpetuity, without ever "graduating" to the later-published Advanced set.
Yeah, this. I loved D&D, but at age 10, I needed adults to break down some of it. Whereas, Basic Marvel was incredibly aimed at my age group. I'd add DC Heroes to this, but honestly, I think Underground broke that system down better.
Quote from: Votan;752205I found Mentzer better for making the rules crystal clear for a dead beginner, but think Moldvay plays better over time. I would want both! :-)
Mentzer bugged me; the Choose Your Own Adventure crap, the reordering the books into a "DMG" and "Players Handbook" in the box. Ugh, no thanks.
For me personally, I have two.
Marvel Superheroes Roleplaying Game Basic Set. This is the RPG that I cut my teeth on so it holds a very special place in my heart. I would spend hours rolling random superheroes. I would fill 100 page notebooks with Supers and Villains. That City Block map that came in that set was used for years until it fell apart due to being folded and unfolded so many times.
Today, the best starter currently on the market is the Pathfinder Beginner's Box. It set the gold standard for Starter Sets that all Starter Sets made after should be judged against. If you cant meet or exceed the content, quality, or value per dollar then you are doing it wrong.
Quote from: S'mon;752142I have a battered copy of the Classic Traveller box from the early '80s, that deserves a mention as it's pretty well the full game in a box. But that was an era of much shorter games, I'm not sure if it wouldn't just have been considered the full Traveller RPG minus supplements.
GDW's Traveller was eventually renamed to Starter Traveller, so new players knew which books to buy first. It came with an adventure.
Although I've a soft spot for Moldvay, I think that the MERP set was better of the old games. More levels (up to 10), and a far more complete game right out of the box.
For modern games (within the past decade), the Pathfinder Beginner Box is the best of the bunch. I've actually bought a copy for myself and stashed it away so that when the kids have beaten theirs to a bloody pulp we still have a copy ready and waiting.
Now, the Dragon Age Set, levels 1-5, is very very good too, but doesn't have that extra polish that the Pathfinder version has.
I've got the FFG Star Wars starter sets (Edge of the Empire and Age of Rebellion), and they're well done too. The difference between the FFG game and the others are that the FFG game doesn't have character creation, but as far as rules layout, adventure layout, etc., the game is very well presented. (As for whether you like the game or not, that's a different story.)
Eventually I'll get around to the Dragon Shadowed Lands starter. It'll have two dozen 1/32 figures including doors, a giant, and a dragon (most of that is mostly sculpted, it's the casting that gives me trouble) all packed in foam trays in a hinged wooden box with a leather bound rule book. It'll cost about $500 and I'll probably never sell a single one but it will be the best starter set ever made. And yes it will include character creation.
MERP has been mentioned. It contained a rulebook of perhaps 128 pages (don't remember exactly), an adventure, and dice. As a 15 year old I ate it up and it led inexorably to Rolemaster. So it certainly worked both as a self-contained product and as a gateway.
Also, Tunnels and Trolls 5e. Slim rulebook, a solo and a GM adventure, and character sheets. Also a bumper sticker. Price was very reasonable too.
also a half dice weapon!
Quote from: econobus;752199Adventures on Tékumel Part 1: Growing up on Tékumel
Arguably Prince Valiant as a beginner route to Pendragon.
I thought hard about adding Dungeon as an intro to the core concepts and crawl genre bt the DNA is just a little too different and the evolutionary path too vague. Still might be good to talk pro/con as an edge case.
Forgot aboit Adventures in Tekimel. Very good intro to playing a human in the setting and a nice "lifepath" style character building system. The "Fighting Fantasy" style adventure books that are a part of it add even more.
As for Dungeon. Id say no. Its system is utterly different from D&D. Its a board game pure and simple.
Now Cardmaster on the other hand is a good stepping stone into D&D.
This is a tough OP to respond to because very few games put out anything we would really call an intentional 'starter set' (i.e., some sort of teaser, or basic entry-level version of the rules, distinct from the full-blown version of the rules). So, most people's picks are just well written rules books or core boxed sets for games that only exist in one form.
I can't think of very many games that put serious effort into the concept of a 'starter set'. D&D has done it several times. Maybe you would call MERP the 'starter set' for Rolemaster? Sort of a narrow vision of what MERP was supposed to be. GURPs put out something like this, but it didn't catch on - I own a ton of GURPs stuff and I have never even seen their short-format rules. BRP did it, but it was really just a gap-fililng product intended to keep them visible while they finished their core rule set.
Considering the small number and mixed success of these sorts of efforts, it is hard to argue with some form of BD&D boxed set as the best ever. I don't think I've seen anyone mention Holmes here. Probably for the good reason that it seems kind of twee in retrospect. But it had a huge print run and huge impact. You could argue that game basically created the market for 1EAD&D and dragged more people into the hobby than any other. So, just to show it some love I'll pick it.
If I step back and just pick my favorite initial offering/core rule book, there are bunch of worthy things others have mentioned. So I'll pick FASA's Behind Enemy Lines, since I doubt anyone else will mention it and it is at least as good as most of the others listed here. If you've never see it, do yourself a favor and check it out.
Quote from: Larsdangly;752301This is a tough OP to respond to because very few games put out anything we would really call an intentional 'starter set' (i.e., some sort of teaser, or basic entry-level version of the rules, distinct from the full-blown version of the rules). So, most people's picks are just well written rules books or core boxed sets for games that only exist in one form.
I can't think of very many games that put serious effort into the concept of a 'starter set'. D&D has done it several times. Maybe you would call MERP the 'starter set' for Rolemaster? Sort of a narrow vision of what MERP was supposed to be. GURPs put out something like this, but it didn't catch on - I own a ton of GURPs stuff and I have never even seen their short-format rules. BRP did it, but it was really just a gap-fililng product intended to keep them visible while they finished their core rule set.
Considering the small number and mixed success of these sorts of efforts, it is hard to argue with some form of BD&D boxed set as the best ever. I don't think I've seen anyone mention Holmes here. Probably for the good reason that it seems kind of twee in retrospect. But it had a huge print run and huge impact. You could argue that game basically created the market for 1EAD&D and dragged more people into the hobby than any other. So, just to show it some love I'll pick it.
If I step back and just pick my favorite initial offering/core rule book, there are bunch of worthy things others have mentioned. So I'll pick FASA's Behind Enemy Lines, since I doubt anyone else will mention it and it is at least as good as most of the others listed here. If you've never see it, do yourself a favor and check it out.
There is a GURPS Lite out there, but it's just a booklet to get you started, not a complete "starter set".
I have mixed feelings about GURPS lite.
On the one hand it's fantastic. You couldn't ask for a better reduction of the rules to the minimal core. It's simple, nearly complete, and fully compatible. It is the gold standard of lite starter games.
Except lacks any setting specific rules. You can do history and modern stuff with it but nothing more. It really, really needs three or four supplements that let you play GURPS lite in a genre like fantasy or science fiction. Because GURPS supplements are anything but lite and you can't just plug Magic in and run with it. It's too big.
You can make a GURPS lite magic system by combining the races and monsters from GURPS Bane Storm and the Magic system from the GURPS Basic Set. SJG has no interest in producing such a book of course, as it would cut into sales of the other two books. Even so, it's something GURPS really needs. GURPS Disc World will be along those lines but it's Disc World so good luck running a serious campaign.
I really like the 'powered by GURPS' books. In a way they are complete games in one book and a starter set. An introduction to the GURPS game. Though I must admit I'm not really a GURPS player/GM anymore.
I think you could probably do everything you need for fantasy or science fiction in six pages. I was working on a bigger GURPS Lite Fantasy supplement but as I think about it a little free supplement might be the way to go.
Quote from: David Johansen;752191The Lord of the Rings Adventure game was a nice little system that was let down by its condescending tone and overly limited setting. I've always wanted to see it fleshed out more and have regretted that I let it go and never got the two supplements. Sadly ICE never would listen when it came to that idea.
Did you know that the German edition (http://www.amazon.de/Mers-f%C3%BCr-Einsteiger/dp/3892601046) of that game was published even before the original one?
Since the ICE box was not done yet the German publisher had no model to follow. He presented the rules in the same style as MERP: functional (if a little dry) layout, no condescending tone, no railroad/solo adventure style module design.
Rules and one adventure, 16 pages in all, basically what would be a free Quickstart booklet today. But this was a for-sale product, and rather expensive: 10 Deutschmarks, while the full 142 page MERS softcover was 35 DM*.
(In 1990 10 DM were about 6 USD.)
The title was misleading, of course. "MERS für Einsteiger" ("MERP for beginners") it was not, since the rules were completely different from MERP.
* including sales tax, something German fans very often forget when they compare international prices
As usual, the Germans get it right and ICE gets it wrong.
Quote from: David Johansen;752340As usual, the Germans get it right and ICE gets it wrong.
Not at all!
It was too expensive, and too little. It was not a lead-in to MERP. It was not supported (like LotR), other than with alibi stats in MERP modules. It was no match for the DSA basic box, a
real RPG starter set.
(But I guess you would have liked it more than the LotR box.)
The LotR box had a real split personality. It's like one writer wanted to construct a sharp, fast playing game with tightly written rules and the other wanted to write a condescending and preachy picture book for small children.
I think the idea was great and the game didn't get nearly the amount of love it deserved. Mechanically it was way ahead of its time and the idea of doing small adventures in Breeland was fine. But it just needed a little better presentation.
Really, looking back, I think the problem is that they aimed the box at ten year olds. If they'd aimed it at experienced gamers who like simpler games it would have been a hit. Sadly the idea that serious gamers might want simple games hadn't really dawned on the industry yet.
Quote from: flyerfan1991;752309There is a GURPS Lite out there, but it's just a booklet to get you started, not a complete "starter set".
My 3rd ed GURPS came with it stuffed in the book.
32 pages and actually it seems to explain quite a bit of the game. Along with the other insert, Instant Characters, I have to say it looks like a servicible starter really. And I dont like GURPS!
Commercial evidence suggests that the best starter set was the Mentzer red box.
Quote from: RPGPundit;752601Commercial evidence suggests that the best starter set was the Mentzer red box.
That could be because they printed off a ton of the things?
According to Mentzer BECMI didnt do as well as he'd have liked. Though mostly that comment was aimed at Immortals if I recall correctly.
But since it was effectively a complete run from start to finish. Wouldnt surprise me if comparatively it did better than BX.
Quote from: RPGPundit;752601Commercial evidence suggests that the best starter set was the Mentzer red box.
Quote from: Omega;752617That could be because they printed off a ton of the things?
According to Mentzer BECMI didnt do as well as he'd have liked. Though mostly that comment was aimed at Immortals if I recall correctly.
But since it was effectively a complete run from start to finish. Wouldnt surprise me if comparatively it did better than BX.
I'm not sure how this constantly gets missed, but, based on what little evidence there is, the Mentzer Basic Red Box sold millions of copies over its lifespan. Read that again: millions. It likely dwarfs the sales of every other D&D product ever produced.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the Mentzer Basic box is the biggest selling RPG product of all-time by a wide margin.
Quote from: Future Villain Band;752220Yeah, this. I loved D&D, but at age 10, I needed adults to break down some of it. Whereas, Basic Marvel was incredibly aimed at my age group. I'd add DC Heroes to this, but honestly, I think Underground broke that system down better.
I dunno, the thing that impresses me about DC Heroes is that they did such a fabulous job of clearly explaining what could easily have come across as labyrinthine and complicated. It's a testament to what clarity without condescension can do for a ruleset. I even understood the chargen with little difficulty, even though the base v. factor cost thing is needlessly overcomplicated for what it does.
Now FASERIP? Still can't make sense of any of it. I've tried to get through the books, but even as an adult I just find myself mystified.
Quote from: J Arcane;752630I dunno, the thing that impresses me about DC Heroes is that they did such a fabulous job of clearly explaining what could easily have come across as labyrinthine and complicated. It's a testament to what clarity without condescension can do for a ruleset. I even understood the chargen with little difficulty, even though the base v. factor cost thing is needlessly overcomplicated for what it does.
Now FASERIP? Still can't make sense of any of it. I've tried to get through the books, but even as an adult I just find myself mystified.
DC Heroes is gold in a box.
It may be, but I'm a bit baffled by the assertion that FASERIP was hard to learn.
MSH is an awesome game. Personally, it's not hard for me to understand but there are just some annoyances that I have with it.
Quote from: RPGPundit;752601Commercial evidence suggests that the best starter set was the Mentzer red box.
I thought I saw somewhere that the Holmes basic set sold the most copies. Is that not so?
Quote from: Larsdangly;752685I thought I saw somewhere that the Holmes basic set sold the most copies. Is that not so?
Mmmm... maybe. Red Box/Black box sold a very large quantity as well, though.
Holmes Basic is my favorite B/X set.
I've got no opinion on 'best' but I really like Chaosium's free quickstart for BRP. It's a bit gimped in that, BRP being a universal/generic core book, there's no specific call outs to fantasy or scifi (though there are 7 short genre specific adventures included).
The GURPS quickstart is also nice.
This question might get interesting given we now know 5e's full planned rollout.
There is a Star Wars introductory set for the old W.E.G. version that was nifty.
MERP had a starter set as well though if memory serves the system was a bit different than the boxed sets. I think I still have the MERP basic set on my shelf...hmm...will have to look when I get home.
BRP has a long history starting with a Basic RPG booklet that was meant as an introduction to fantasy/dark ages themed gaming. I think I got one in my CoC 1st. ed. boxed set.
Don't have that one anymore.
These all seemed to do the job though very stripped down.
Quote from: Larsdangly;752685I thought I saw somewhere that the Holmes basic set sold the most copies. Is that not so?
There is little to no hard information on this question, but from what is available: not even remotely close. You'll have to do some digging if you want specific numbers, but there's an interesting article on the Arcaeum that has numbers for Mentzer Basic in 1989 (six
years after it was released!) that show something like ~1,000,000 units sold. If you dig up numbers for the early years, they're way higher. It's staggering, but it was released when D&D had become a fad, and was distributed so widely at retail that people have even reported buying it at the local hardware store (not as crazy as it sounds - I've seen M:tG show up in the same place). We also know it was in many of the major chains. The numbers suggested for Holmes in a single year are nowhere near this, and it had a way shorter lifespan. Even the revered Moldvay box isn't really within spitting distance (plus way shorter shelf life), though, to be fair, there doesn't appear to be any mainstream tabletop RPG product (that I know of) that has ever come near these numbers.
The Moldvay and Mentzner basic sets weren't starter sets. They were the first modules in standalone games. You couldn't play the full B/X game without them.
Holmes was a starter set. And not an especially well-designed one, as the OD&D books often weren't available where they were sold, and the AD&D books they alluded to weren't released for another 1-2 years.
Quote from: skofflox;752883There is a Star Wars introductory set for the old W.E.G. version that was nifty.
It's not bad. It uses the revised and expanded rules.
Quote from: skofflox;752883MERP had a starter set as well though if memory serves the system was a bit different than the boxed sets. I think I still have the MERP basic set on my shelf...hmm...will have to look when I get home.
You're probably thinking of the Lord of the Rings Adventure game. It was actually an entirely different and much lighter system, basically identical to the Tolkien Quest and Middle-Eart Quest Gamebooks. There were conversion notes for going between MERP and LotRAG, and many of the MERP 2nd edition supplements were statted for LotRAG, too. There was actually a starter box released for MERP, but it was just the standard rulebook with a module and some cardboard standups.
Quote from: Haffrung;752956The Moldvay and Mentzner basic sets weren't starter sets. They were the first modules in standalone games. You couldn't play the full B/X game without them.
While it's true that these were actually the start of standalone games, dismissing them as "starters" is disingenuous. An awful lot of people went from playing Basic D&D to AD&D. Just based on sales numbers alone, I am willing to bet that Mentzer players were probably the single biggest cohort to enter the hobby.
Quote from: Bobloblah;752960While it's true that these were actually the start of standalone games, dismissing them as "starters" is disingenuous. An awful lot of people went from playing Basic D&D to AD&D. Just based on sales numbers alone, I am willing to bet that Mentzer players were probably the single biggest cohort to enter the hobby.
No doubt you're right. But that wasn't part of any roll-out or marketing plan on the part of TSR. There was a huge demand for D&D out there, and people saw an affordable and simple version of the game packaged in a box so they bought it. And let's not pretend there wasn't any confusion about the relationship between B/X and AD&D, because there was (I couldn't figure out what ML was in the B/X module stat blocks).. So those sets helped grow the game in spite of TSR's design and marketing strategy, not because of it.
But WotC has no intention of designing a whole game, chopping it in half, and putting each half in a box to sell. Not when the three core book model has become so entrenched in the game. Dragon Age did use the B/X box set model, and it didn't exactly set the RPG world on fire (though I think it's a very good game).
To your point about Dragon Age, the only sales data I've seen suggest you might be mistaken, however, I don't know if that necessarily has anything to do with the format. I doubt it hurt.
Back to the B/X & BECMI split from AD&D, you're right that there was no doubt plenty of confusion, and TSR didn't set it up as an intentional marketing strategy, but that doesn't change the fact that it worked as one, in spite of the problems. No one here is suggesting they split D&D back into two games, but instead use the starter model, while correcting the problems that existed with the Basic/AD&D divide. Much like Paizo did.
Quote from: Haffrung;752956The Moldvay and Mentzner basic sets weren't starter sets. They were the first modules in standalone games. You couldn't play the full B/X game without them.
A set that doesn't become worthless when the next product hits the shelf doesn't mean that it does not function as a starter set. Unless of course your definition of starter means 'money that would have been better spent on an actual game'.
The first Dragon Age boxed set is a starter. It does a fine job of teaching rpg play to a newb without becoming worthless once box two was released.
Quote from: skofflox;752883There is a Star Wars introductory set for the old W.E.G. version that was nifty.
Yep,
The Star Wars Introductory Adventure Game. It did the job pretty damn well, too.
Advanced Marvel Superheroes by FASA (the blue box).
Red box MERP (basically MERP Revised)
Either to Mold. or Metz. D&D sets.
And the Dragon Age box set is solid as well (though lacking rules for Grey Wardens in set 1 was... an interesting choice).
AMSH was TSR and Red Box MERP was full MERP. It's actually pretty interesting; a lot of what gets considered a "starter set" was really not intended as such (at least, not in how the term is being used now) when released.
Quote from: Exploderwizard;752968A set that doesn't become worthless when the next product hits the shelf doesn't mean that it does not function as a starter set. Unless of course your definition of starter means 'money that would have been better spent on an actual game'.
The first Dragon Age boxed set is a starter. It does a fine job of teaching rpg play to a newb without becoming worthless once box two was released.
For the sake of this discussion, I meant to include sets like Moldvay & Mentzer that are necessary to play the whole game, as well as sets like the Pathfinder Beginner Box that aren't.
Quote from: Bobloblah;752991AMSH was TSR and Red Box MERP was full MERP. It's actually pretty interesting; a lot of what gets considered a "starter set" was really not intended as such (at least, not in how the term is being used now) when released.
Well historically D&D was probably about the only game that came in "starter box" and "multiple book" versions, wasn't it?
In terms of RPG-in-a-box sets that are great starting points for new gamers, the best I've ever owned personally was the original MSH yellow box. Yes, it was my first RPG and so the nostalgia lenses are doubtless in full effect, but of the quality box sets I've owned MSH is the only which best meets the "can you but it in the morning and run a game that evening" test (which, frankly, any game looking to bring in first time players needs to meet as a minimum to be effective). You can be up and running with MSH faster than some recent boardgames.
Quote from: Marleycat;752862This question might get interesting given we now know 5e's full planned rollout.
Agreed. I would not be upset to see a strong and viable dungeons and dragons boosting the appeal of tabletop RPGs.
This looks really nice:
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-d4lVIo5Fygc/Ufd7osZxREI/AAAAAAAAE8U/fC9mpw4WEmw/s1600/IMG_5109.JPG)
Myrskyn Sankarit is a Finnish OGL/D&D clone, apparently modeled after Metzer Red Box.
In Finland it is already on the shelves of regular game stores.
The English version Age of the Tempest is right now being crowdfunded (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/age-of-the-tempest-roleplaying-for-kids-and-beginners). (On that page is also a video and a picture of the box contents.)
Something a friend recently pointed out that I had heard of in name but never knew what it was.
A BECMI or Cyclopedia starter set called Thunder Rift. According to them it was a very new player friendly setting and even had modules that could be played solo or without a DM?
Currently looking up more on this.
Thunder Rift is an awesome setting, but its really meant for most of them to be GM controlled.
Small region, lots to do.
I think the Marvel Superhero RPG (Faserip) Basic Set was an awesome starter!