I have mixed feelings about GURPS lite.

On the one hand it's fantastic.  You couldn't ask for a better reduction of the rules to the minimal core.  It's simple, nearly complete, and fully compatible.  It is the gold standard of lite starter games.

Except lacks any setting specific rules.  You can do history and modern stuff with it but nothing more.  It really, really needs three or four supplements that let you play GURPS lite in a genre like fantasy or science fiction.  Because GURPS supplements are anything but lite and you can't just plug Magic in and run with it.  It's too big.

You can make a GURPS lite magic system by combining the races and monsters from GURPS Bane Storm and the Magic system from the GURPS Basic Set.  SJG has no interest in producing such a book of course, as it would cut into sales of the other two books.  Even so, it's something GURPS really needs.  GURPS Disc World will be along those lines but it's Disc World so good luck running a serious campaign.

I really like the 'powered by GURPS' books. In a way they are complete games in one book and a starter set. An introduction to the GURPS game. Though I must admit I'm not really a GURPS player/GM anymore.

I think you could probably do everything you need for fantasy or science fiction in six pages.  I was working on a bigger GURPS Lite Fantasy supplement but as I think about it a little free supplement might be the way to go.

Quote from: David Johansen;752191The Lord of the Rings Adventure game was a nice little system that was let down by its condescending tone and overly limited setting.  I've always wanted to see it fleshed out more and have regretted that I let it go and never got the two supplements.  Sadly ICE never would listen when it came to that idea.

Did you know that the German edition of that game was published even before the original one?
Since the ICE box was not done yet the German publisher had no model to follow. He presented the rules in the same style as MERP: functional (if a little dry) layout, no condescending tone, no railroad/solo adventure style module design.

Rules and one adventure, 16 pages in all, basically what would be a free Quickstart booklet today. But this was a for-sale product,  and rather expensive: 10 Deutschmarks, while the full 142 page MERS softcover was 35 DM*.
(In 1990 10 DM were about 6 USD.)

The title was misleading, of course. "MERS für Einsteiger" ("MERP for beginners") it was not, since the rules were completely different from MERP.

* including sales tax, something German fans very often forget when they compare international prices

As usual, the Germans get it right and ICE gets it wrong.

Quote from: David Johansen;752340As usual, the Germans get it right and ICE gets it wrong.

Not at all!
It was too expensive, and too little. It was not a lead-in to MERP. It was not supported (like LotR), other than with alibi stats in MERP modules. It was no match for the DSA basic box, a real RPG starter set.

(But I guess you would have liked it more than the LotR box.)

The LotR box had a real split personality.  It's like one writer wanted to construct a sharp, fast playing game with tightly written rules and the other wanted to write a condescending and preachy picture book for small children.

I think the idea was great and the game didn't get nearly the amount of love it deserved.  Mechanically it was way ahead of its time and the idea of doing small adventures in Breeland was fine.  But it just needed a little better presentation.

Really, looking back, I think the problem is that they aimed the box at ten year olds.  If they'd aimed it at experienced gamers who like simpler games it would have been a hit.  Sadly the idea that serious gamers might want simple games hadn't really dawned on the industry yet.

Quote from: flyerfan1991;752309There is a GURPS Lite out there, but it's just a booklet to get you started, not a complete "starter set".

My 3rd ed GURPS came with it stuffed in the book.

32 pages and actually it seems to explain quite a bit of the game. Along with the other insert, Instant Characters, I have to say it looks like a servicible starter really. And I dont like GURPS!

Commercial evidence suggests that the best starter set was the Mentzer red box.

Quote from: RPGPundit;752601Commercial evidence suggests that the best starter set was the Mentzer red box.

That could be because they printed off a ton of the things?

According to Mentzer BECMI didnt do as well as he'd have liked. Though mostly that comment was aimed at Immortals if I recall correctly.

But since it was effectively a complete run from start to finish. Wouldnt surprise me if comparatively it did better than BX.

Quote from: RPGPundit;752601Commercial evidence suggests that the best starter set was the Mentzer red box.

Quote from: Omega;752617That could be because they printed off a ton of the things?

According to Mentzer BECMI didnt do as well as he'd have liked. Though mostly that comment was aimed at Immortals if I recall correctly.

But since it was effectively a complete run from start to finish. Wouldnt surprise me if comparatively it did better than BX.

I'm not sure how this constantly gets missed, but, based on what little evidence there is, the Mentzer Basic Red Box sold millions of copies over its lifespan. Read that again: millions. It likely dwarfs the sales of every other D&D product ever produced.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the Mentzer Basic box is the biggest selling RPG product of all-time by a wide margin.

Quote from: Future Villain Band;752220Yeah, this.  I loved D&D, but at age 10, I needed adults to break down some of it.  Whereas, Basic Marvel was incredibly aimed at my age group.  I'd add DC Heroes to this, but honestly, I think Underground broke that system down better.

I dunno, the thing that impresses me about DC Heroes is that they did such a fabulous job of clearly explaining what could easily have come across as labyrinthine and complicated. It's a testament to what clarity without condescension can do for a ruleset. I even understood the chargen with little difficulty, even though the base v. factor cost thing is needlessly overcomplicated for what it does.

Now FASERIP? Still can't make sense of any of it. I've tried to get through the books, but even as an adult I just find myself mystified.

Quote from: J Arcane;752630I dunno, the thing that impresses me about DC Heroes is that they did such a fabulous job of clearly explaining what could easily have come across as labyrinthine and complicated. It's a testament to what clarity without condescension can do for a ruleset. I even understood the chargen with little difficulty, even though the base v. factor cost thing is needlessly overcomplicated for what it does.

Now FASERIP? Still can't make sense of any of it. I've tried to get through the books, but even as an adult I just find myself mystified.

DC Heroes is gold in a box.

It may be, but I'm a bit baffled by the assertion that FASERIP was hard to learn.