Quote from: tenbones;923067More like St. Elsewhere - just a big dream.

But that wasnt a continuation of MASH?

Back on topic.

Wasnt there at one point discussion of a possible Changeling TV series?

Quote from: Omega;923160Wasnt there at one point discussion of a possible Changeling TV series?

First I heard of it. When it was released, Mark Rein-Hagen claimed it was his best game, but it never quite won the favour of Vampire. The tabletop game, for me, is a bit meh and really most of it's commercial appeal was really only because it was a concluding game in the OWoD series. On the other hand, having played it once, I would say that it actually works a lot better as a live action game than some might think. It's sort of like a Vampire LARP but with a much lighter tone, it sort of thematically worked as a game concept and people get to dress up in their best New Romantic garb rather than Gothic. For a one time experience, I enjoyed it and thought it could have become popular if more people had tried it. On that same basis it could work as a TV show - maybe something akin to The Fisher King or something.

The Changeling CCG is pretty  good too. Arcadia: The Wyld hunt, and then Arcadia: King Ironhearts Madness. One of these days I'll finish assembling that map of the land.

Quote from: Omega;923160Wasnt there at one point discussion of a possible Changeling TV series?

No idea. However, even though it seems to be the red-capped stepchild of oWoD, it probably would have done fine as a different property freed from the 'part of the WoD' model. I could see something along the lines of Once Upon a Time, but less 'Disney Family Hour'-ish doing well. Especially during the 90s, what with the boom of syndicated action adventure shows following the success of Highlander, Baywatch, Hercules/Xena, etc.

The CCG pretty much did that. If Arcadia was your ownly info on Changeling then it would come across as a straight-up fae fantasy setting. You can potentially have a werewolf ally. But its totally divorced from the WoD setting even so.

I remember quite vividly when Vampire first came out.  It certainly got a lot of buzz very quickly.  The very earliest games I saw (or tried) initially attempted to play it "straight" as Rein*Hagen intended: the players as haunted souls trying to hold onto their humanity.  But relatively very quickly, I can't say how quickly but not more than a few months after release, the vast majority of people said "fuck that" and it started to be all trenchcoats-and-uzis-and-katanas.
I seem to recall thinking that Highlander ended up having a serious influence in that.  For a lot of people (in this time before the Interview With the Vampire movie came out), particularly the non-goth types, the game was in many ways more about playing an Immortal than about playing a Vampire as such. After the Interview movie came out, things changed again, and then everyone wanted to be Lestat.

Quote from: RPGPundit;924542I remember quite vividly when Vampire first came out.  It certainly got a lot of buzz very quickly.  The very earliest games I saw (or tried) initially attempted to play it "straight" as Rein*Hagen intended: the players as haunted souls trying to hold onto their humanity.  But relatively very quickly, I can't say how quickly but not more than a few months after release, the vast majority of people said "fuck that" and it started to be all trenchcoats-and-uzis-and-katanas.
I seem to recall thinking that Highlander ended up having a serious influence in that.  For a lot of people (in this time before the Interview With the Vampire movie came out), particularly the non-goth types, the game was in many ways more about playing an Immortal than about playing a Vampire as such. After the Interview movie came out, things changed again, and then everyone wanted to be Lestat.

I think that's a pretty good summation of everything else in this thread, to be honest.

So, for Halloween, I am planning a 1E Vampire: The Masquerade campaign that is sandbox in style and explicitly rejects and condemns personal horror as a theme. I think I might run it here as a play-by-post game if there is enough interest.

Quote from: RPGPundit;924542I remember quite vividly when Vampire first came out.  It certainly got a lot of buzz very quickly.  The very earliest games I saw (or tried) initially attempted to play it "straight" as Rein*Hagen intended: the players as haunted souls trying to hold onto their humanity.  But relatively very quickly, I can't say how quickly but not more than a few months after release, the vast majority of people said "fuck that" and it started to be all trenchcoats-and-uzis-and-katanas.
I seem to recall thinking that Highlander ended up having a serious influence in that.  For a lot of people (in this time before the Interview With the Vampire movie came out), particularly the non-goth types, the game was in many ways more about playing an Immortal than about playing a Vampire as such. After the Interview movie came out, things changed again, and then everyone wanted to be Lestat.

I think this is probably pretty accurate for a large segment of players. I feel that this is largely to do with the people GMing it than just the players.

As for the Interview influence - that's certainly there from the outset. The point of Interview *is* pretty central within the books as it is in the game about trying to maintain and/or reconnect with humanity. It becomes a game of immortals as a natural extension of the very notion that time marches on even if you don't. It's kind of inevitable. Which is why the endless cycle of the very "myths" within Vampire exist (only they're not necessarily myths at all - but a larger horrible reality) where elders rule in ways totally alien to modern vampires - and of course there's that pesky notion of cannibalism.

The trenchcoat katana thing was definitely a Highlanderism. And fairly silly even by the contexts of Vampire. But what are you going to to with the gaming public? I mean they think there should be magic stores to wheel-and-deal items and that battlemat-mastery is the point of roleplaying.

See? We're gaming immortals ourselves. Things change while we don't. And like those Elders, I scoff!!!!! SCOFF I SAY!!!!

Quote from: Willie the Duck;922679So, wait--does that make nWoD AfterMASH?

NWoD is China Beach.  Same kinda thing, different setting.

Quote from: daniel_ream;922788My point is that Traveller has a  very similar publishing history to the *WoD, yet I've never heard anyone refer to pre-TNE Traveller as being "cancelled" or "discontinued".

The New Era was the future of Classic Traveller, fast forwarded after the 3rd Imperium's apocalypse brought by Virus.  If the nWoD was, "Well, Gehenna/Apocalypse/Reckoning/Rapture/Gathering/EOTWAWKI happened, and this is the Aftermath." Then the analogy would be sound.

oWoD/nWoD is more analogous to MERP/LotRRPG/TOR - different games using the same source material in different ways not connected to each other outside the source material.  Other than the WW logo and some of the usual suspects as creators, the two WoD product lines are two different realities.  

Once Mark Miller decided to put out TNE, he shoved a fork up CT's ass, then he did the same to TNE when he came up with Milieu Zero.   The idea of "Canceled" vs. "Ended" vs. whatever the hell is all the same - the people making it, stopped making it, and shifted over to something different.  Nowadays though, with an RPG, you can sell it forever, no matter if you're making anything for it or not, same as Collector's Editions of M.A.S.H.  RPGs are much easier to reboot or simply pick up where you left off, if you're so inclined.

Quote from: tenbones;924794See? We're gaming immortals ourselves. Things change while we don't. And like those Elders, I scoff!!!!! SCOFF I SAY!!!!

Christ.  Seeing all the young hipsters who think they're cool and different when really the only thing different is their lack of money and power.  Realizing that we're all Playing the Game, even the ones pretending the Game doesn't exist, and we're all subject to the whims of the Elite Antediluvians, ...Fuck, no wonder people stopped playing oWoD, they grew up and it became too depressing being an Elder.

After this election, I'm about ready for Torpor, myself.

Quote from: CRKrueger;924804After this election, I'm about ready for Torpor, myself.

You and me both.

Quote from: tenbones;924794The trenchcoat katana thing was definitely a Highlanderism.

I think that's a spurious connection, personally.  We had tons of trenchcoat-and-katana types, but it was entirely due to the fact that katanas were (IIRC) strictly mechanically superior to every other melee weapon and you needed a trenchcoat to hide them.  I don't recall anyone ever linking their character choices to Highlander and we were certainly all aware of it.

Quote from: daniel_ream;924864I think that's a spurious connection, personally.  We had tons of trenchcoat-and-katana types, but it was entirely due to the fact that katanas were (IIRC) strictly mechanically superior to every other melee weapon and you needed a trenchcoat to hide them.  I don't recall anyone ever linking their character choices to Highlander and we were certainly all aware of it.

I am sure there were groups who came to the katana on its own. But the trench-coat and katana thing being inspired by Highlander seems pretty on the nose to me. That is when I first remember seeing a katana and trench coat paired together. I know in my group of gamer friends there were more than a handful of Highlander fanatics. I think it is a safe bet that the bulk of the trench coat and katana characters were inspired by the movie and show.