I have a question and an analogy.

Traveller: The New Era was a completely different game system (nWoD vs. oWoD).  In its fluff, it completely wiped out the existing setting and replaced it with a new, metaplot-free one (nWoD vs. oWoD).  It was published by the same company.  It divided the fan base, on both setting and system grounds.  Several years later, the pre-TNE system and setting were republished and supported by multiple companies with some relationship with the original publisher, but not the same corporate entity or designers (nWoD vs. oWoD).

Did the release of Traveller: The New Era represent the cancellation or discontinuation of "old" Traveller?  Why or why not?

Quote from: TristramEvans;922621Just to put this retarded argument to bed:

You have underestimated how impervious he is to evidence and logic.

The discontinued the old traveller, and the old continuity. Later, after the "failure" or the new system and new continuity, new systems were published which restarted the continuity.

The entire argument is a non-argument. Discontinued just means there are no upcoming releases planned by the publishing entity. Cancelled just means that they were intending/hoping to have upcoming releases, and that looks like it isn't going to happen. Life is measured by having a pulse*. Publishing is the heartbeat of game companies. If one's heart stops, and then it is restored (with a crowd sourced defibrillator) were you dead in between? I just don't think there is (or needs to be) a definitive answer.




*Don't go pedant on this. I'm making an allusion, not teaching a HS bio class.

Quote from: Willie the Duck;922707The entire argument is a non-argument.

I don't understand the intractability either, I just thought I'd point out that the publishing history of the World of Darkness isn't unique.

Quote from: yosemitemike;922705You have underestimated how impervious he is to evidence and logic.

I think he seems to be defining "cancelled" as something that happens from outsider execs that the creators have no control of, and since the creators themselves chose to end the Vampire: TM gameline it oesn't count as "cancelled", while the rest of us aren't making that distinction, mainly because that distinction isn't inherently part of the definition of the word.

Anyways, it's Vampiretown Jake.

Quote from: daniel_ream;922715I don't understand the intractability either, I just thought I'd point out that the publishing history of the World of Darkness isn't unique.

No one said it was the only game line that was ever cancelled.  Lots of game lines have been cancelled including ones I really liked.  How about a moment of silence for Blue Planet?
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Thank you

Lots of cancelled things have endings.  Hell, Stargate:SG-1 has 3 endings.  They thought it would be cancelled after season 8 and put in what could be a final episode.  Then it got picked up for season 9.  They thought it would be cancelled after that season and put in another final episode.  It got picked up again for a 10th season.  They thought the show would go for at least 2 more seasons at that point and didn't put an ending in season 10 but the show was cancelled after that season.  Later, they came back and put in a 3rd ending in the Ark of Truth movie.  The show was indisputably cancelled years ago and it has not 1, not 2 but 3 endings.

Quote from: Willie the Duck;922707Discontinued just means there are no upcoming releases planned by the publishing entity. Cancelled just means that they were intending/hoping to have upcoming releases, and that looks like it isn't going to happen.

This is how I am defining both Cancelled and Discontinued.

Vampire was discontinued for a while as a deliberate marketing plan, (which was, essentially, releasing a NWoD) with the clear evidence of it being driven by metaplot which had the world finally ending. It wasn't cancelled insofar that this was always premeditated as part of that plan. Nobody cancelled any upcoming supplements for the line and the execs weren't just cutting their losses. You could say that other lines, like Wraith, were clearly cancelled prematurely by contrast, but Vampire wasn't. It's why the Firefly analogy doesn't fit, although the Traveller: The New Era does.

Moreover, all this is quite moot when new V:TM books are still being published today, and a new edition is due.

So you just need to redefine what your terms mean and Bob's your uncle.

Quote from: yosemitemike;922758So you just need to redefine what your terms mean and Bob's your uncle.

Well, they were someone else's terms actually - but I agree with them.

Quote from: yosemitemike;922739No one said it was the only game line that was ever cancelled.

My point is that Traveller has a  very similar publishing history to the *WoD, yet I've never heard anyone refer to pre-TNE Traveller as being "cancelled" or "discontinued".

I posted on the WW and Shadownessence forum since 2007. The nwod was their main gameline. Owod got cancelled. They cancelled 4 out of 5 Convention books for Mage for example. Only to pick them up again in 2013.

Quote from: daniel_ream;922788My point is that Traveller has a  very similar publishing history to the *WoD, yet I've never heard anyone refer to pre-TNE Traveller as being "cancelled" or "discontinued".

I haven't heard very many people talking about Traveller at all.  What you have or have not heard people say about Traveller isn't really relevant to this discussion.  That is its own discussion which should be evaluated on the facts of the publishing history of that game.

Quote from: jan paparazzi;922853I posted on the WW and Shadownessence forum since 2007. The nwod was their main gameline. Owod got cancelled. They cancelled 4 out of 5 Convention books for Mage for example. Only to pick them up again in 2013.

I recognise that other parts of the WoD got cancelled - I made that point about Wraith for example, earlier on the thread - but Vampire: The Masquerade (Revised edition from 1998) had a complete cycle.

And, as you point out yourself about the Convention books, these lines were reopened and continued with the 20th Anniversary cycle,which we are currently in. All these classic lines are still moving forward.

Quote from: Willie the Duck;922679So, wait--does that make nWoD AfterMASH?

Trapper John MD.

More like St. Elsewhere - just a big dream.