The traditional old-school ones? (Poison, paralysis, breath weapon, wand, spell?)

The 3e ones? (fortitude, reflex, will?)

Ones where there's a save for each of the ability scores? (So you would do a STR save, or a DEX save or a CHA save, etc.?)

Or the one-number Saving Throw system several OSR games use? (where you have a single number as your 'saving throw' number, and it can be modified by specific bonuses or by ability scores depending on the nature of what you're saving against?)

3e's saving throws make the most sense to me. I don't understand how a spell cast from a wand would differ enough from a spell cast from a spell slot that they would target different saves, or why someone would be better at resisting one than the other. I can understand why someone's dexterity, constitution or wisdom would make them better at resisting certain effects.

Quote from: RPGPundit;836114Or the one-number Saving Throw system several OSR games use? (where you have a single number as your 'saving throw' number, and it can be modified by specific bonuses or by ability scores depending on the nature of what you're saving against?)

I like this one the best. Its not perfect. But it works for me.

It sounds like you mean solely for D&D and D&D-derived games, yes?

I actually like 4E's. Saving throws are versus a 10.  The 3E save categories were placed into 4E as separate defenses. They basically functioned like saves, but were passive scores, rather than modifiers for active throws. It was one aspect of that system I would've liked to have seen ported to 5th.  I'd much rather have casters or those making the effect attack the targets resistance. I hate the whole static DC spellcasters have--basically they don't get the chance to experience the agonies and ecstasies of 1's and 20's near enough for me.:-)

I'm up in the air right now. I think the 5 saves are more flavorful, but the three saves are more intuitive.

The traditional system is definitely more flavorful and offers some additional differentiation between classes, but, the last time I was playing a D&D-type game, I was thinking about adapting single-number saves for the sake of simplicity.  Never got around to actually trying it, though.

Quote from: Night Goat;836139I don't understand how a spell cast from a wand would differ enough from a spell cast from a spell slot that they would target different saves,

Imagine that you have a baseball gun which can fire a baseball at 90mph.  Dodging a baseball fired from that baseball gun (a wand) would be somewhat different than trying to dodge a 90mph fastball thrown the traditional way by a major league pitcher (cast from a spell slot).  For starters, the baseball gun is literally point-and-shoot, probably making it quicker to launch the ball and easier to aim, but the MLB pitcher is going to have the ability to change up his pitch to account for the exact conditions at hand, unlike the baseball gun which launches the ball in exactly the same way every time.

Quote from: nDervish;836199Imagine that you have a baseball gun which can fire a baseball at 90mph.  Dodging a baseball fired from that baseball gun (a wand) would be somewhat different than trying to dodge a 90mph fastball thrown the traditional way by a major league pitcher (cast from a spell slot).  For starters, the baseball gun is literally point-and-shoot, probably making it quicker to launch the ball and easier to aim, but the MLB pitcher is going to have the ability to change up his pitch to account for the exact conditions at hand, unlike the baseball gun which launches the ball in exactly the same way every time.

Hey--that's a GREAT illustration, seriously. I've always wondered about this stuff myself. Of course, as a baseball fan, it didn't hurt to use that metaphor.:-)

(now I want all old school saves explained to me, BASEBALL STYLE!). :-)

Personally I liked the 4th edition saves.

I liked the person on the offense rolled the dice. It also cut down a little on the Gm's work I think that way.

But that's just me.

Quote from: Artifacts of Amber;836205Personally I liked the 4th edition saves.

I liked the person on the offense rolled the dice. It also cut down a little on the Gm's work I think that way.

But that's just me.

Not just you (I chimed in, above).

Quote from: RPGPundit;836114Or the one-number Saving Throw system several OSR games use? (where you have a single number as your 'saving throw' number, and it can be modified by specific bonuses or by ability scores depending on the nature of what you're saving against?)

I started out by liking the Fort, Reflex, Will save of 3e but the Swords & Wizardry single save + specific bonuses grew on me.

To me saving throws are a mechanic used to handle the question: "Something immediately bad happened to your character. Roll to avoid the danger."

It makes sense that the experience of the character would be the major factor.

As usual with questions like this, my answer is that I enjoy playing different games.

The original D&D approach differentiates character types while mapping categories to the main occasions for which saves are called. It delivers flavor and convenience when that's the game we want to play.

T&T (and successors such as RuneQuest and WotC-D&D) has the combination of flexibility and blandness typical of more systematic/generic rules. It calls for thought as to which attribute applies, perhaps more hairy still when there's a case for more than one. T&T, TFT and such handle advancement simply by improving attribute scores, whereas D&D3 calls for additional addition. RQ and other BRP games tend to use "saves" that don't change much.

RQ is a longtime favorite of mine, but T&T and TFT have an appealing simplicity. TFT talents are basically got 'em or not, rather than rated separately like skills in RQ or D&D3. I appreciate the elegance of noting only what's notable.

Quote from: estar;836207I started out by liking the Fort, Reflex, Will save of 3e but the Swords & Wizardry single save + specific bonuses grew on me.

To me saving throws are a mechanic used to handle the question: "Something immediately bad happened to your character. Roll to avoid the danger."

It makes sense that the experience of the character would be the major factor.

In the D&D context, I like the original distinctions among character types, and those being "baked in" rather than calling for arithmetic. Once we're piling on modifiers, it's six of one vs. half a dozen of another. I guess 3e gets more steps out of the way up front: level and attribute and class all in one number.

I think this kind of rule has more appeal when we want to put more emphasis on ability scores and dice tosses than in the original game -- but (just for tradition's sake?) don't want to switch to a range that makes each point of attribute significant.

I'm a fan of the 3E model. Not a big surprise.

Quote from: RPGPundit;836114The traditional old-school ones? (Poison, paralysis, breath weapon, wand, spell) or where there's a save for each of the ability scores? (So you would do a STR save, or a DEX save or a CHA save, etc.?)

I like a combination of these two methods.