Quote from: JesterRaiin;890313Mmmmm, somebody observed that there's little difference between slitting someone's throat and holding him while your buddy shivs the fucker.

But there is a lot of difference between doing that and standing and fighting defensively until the battle is over or causing the other guys to runaway or retreat...or did you miss that part of the post?

Quote from: soltakss;890316The "or else" means they probably would refuse to heal any offending PCs for a period of time.

Them and all their sisters and brothers. Good luck ever getting a Resurrection or Regrow Limb spell. Oh and some Orlanthi Runelord might just decide to help a friendly cultist out by whaling on the violator as well.
   

Quote from: JesterRaiin;890330If you could shed some light on the topic... what with "kill one to save many" scenario? How such a healer is supposed to react according to his, mmmm, faith if he were to find himself in such a situation?

They can do no harm to any living thing. As said, they can destroy the undead (not harming any living thing there). They can also combat spirits of disease.

Quote from: Ravenswing;890355... reloading crossbows ...

That one seems over the line for a pacifist.

AD&D also listed a man-catcher in the rules, never used one, but that could be cool.

Quote from: infinitum3d;890277How can a Pacifist be a useful choice in a combat situation?

Thanks!

As noted allready. Negotiation is one. Defuse encounters before they happen.

Pure healer and support is another. Heal and buff the others. Set up defensive barriers, etc.

Scouting and intel. Even co-ordination of others. Bards and fighters for example have some tricks depending on the edition.

Damage magnet if they have good AC and HP. Moreso if they have some sort of "attack me" skill or spell to make foes more likely to target them over others.

Quote from: Bren;890358But there is a lot of difference between doing that and standing and fighting defensively until the battle is over or causing the other guys to runaway or retreat...or did you miss that part of the post?

I'm not sure, plenty of things happened yesterday.

For the record, if the overall group's tactic is "to the death", then as far as I'm concerned one defensive guy is "guilty" of cooperation, exactly like a guy who "only watches whether guards aren't coming" while his companions slit throats of sleeping victims.

Quote from: JesterRaiin;890432I'm not sure, plenty of things happened yesterday.

For the record, if the overall group's tactic is "to the death", then as far as I'm concerned one defensive guy is "guilty" of cooperation, exactly like a guy who "only watches whether guards aren't coming" while his companions slit throats of sleeping victims.

+1 to that.

Quote from: JesterRaiin;890330Interesting concept. Challenging "class".

The Chalana Arroy Class might appear in 13th Age Glorantha, so it will be interesting to see how it is covered.

Quote from: JesterRaiin;890330I'm not familiar with Glorantha's lore, so I might be wrong here, but it seems that said healers aren't pacifists, they are doing whatever is in their power to limit the amount of corpses that might be turned into undead, correct?

Not really, Chalana Arroy believes in the Sanctity of life and owns the Life Rune. Her worshippers cannot harm another, cannot take up arms against anyone except Undead and can defend themselves if attacked. However, their best form of defence is "Don't hurt me, I worship Chalana Arroy and if you hurt me all healing on you will fail".

Quote from: JesterRaiin;890330If you could shed some light on the topic... what with "kill one to save many" scenario? How such a healer is supposed to react according to his, mmmm, faith if he were to find himself in such a situation?

Nope, killing none to save many would be better. They just aren't allowed to harm anyone, even causing 1 Hit Point of damage, may not learn magic that harms another, may not learn weapon skills that harm another. It is quite restrictive.

Some accompany warbands or adventuring groups, so they are not pacifists in the sense of stopping all combat. However, some definitely are and won;t allow combat in their presence.

Quote from: Bren;890303In addition to the meat shield, if the pacifist is fighting defensively they are still engaging one or more attackers and that prevents those attackers from ganging up on someone else. So that is still helpful.

Currently I'm playing Honor+Intrigue (a swashbuckling game) which has combat maneuvers that allow methods for engaging and neutralizing opponents without damaging them. For example, one could use fancy sword work to cut the opponent's belt so their pants fall down tripping them. Or slice the buttons off their coat to scare them and cause their morale to break without damaging anything more than their clothes. So instead of the heavily armored defensive wall, one could go with the nimble guy who is tripping people, scaring people, causing awnings or tapestries to drop and entangle them, and shoving furniture in their path.

These are great ideas! Don't play for the win. Play for the tie. Just keep them busy enough to exhaust them. Fatigue is a great demotivator.


Tony
Infinitum3d@hotmail.com
Click here for a SoloPlay module!

Quote from: dragoner;889472That would be Orwell's argument. http://www.orwell.ru/library/articles/pacifism/english/e_patw

It was Krishna's argument first.

As for a Pacifist, couldn't a paladin do the "Batman" thing? Not killing, but kicking the crap out of evildoers and taking them to the authorities?

Quote from: JesterRaiin;890330I'm not familiar with Glorantha's lore, so I might be wrong here, but it seems that said healers aren't pacifists, they are doing whatever is in their power to limit the amount of corpses that might be turned into undead, correct?

That's an interesting interpretation, and I'm no Glorantha Runemaster myself, but here goes.

Chalana Arroy is associated with the Harmony and Life Runes and opposed to the Death, Chaos and Disorder Runes so it's more than just "anti-undead".  Priestesses must do no violence to any living thing and heal all they come across.  Now, in doing this are they increasing the Life and Harmony Rune or weakening the Death and Disorder Runes?  Well, both, I guess.  I suppose you certainly could have a priestess who saw what she was doing as actively being anti-undead.  Once of the key things I found to understanding Gloranthan gods is finding out what their Mythical Heroquests are.  As far as I can tell, all the Chalana Arroy Heroquests are based on great acts of healing, not necessarily opposing undead, but you could argue every healing is an act of opposition to Death.

Maybe Loz, Pete or some other Glorantha scholar wants to chime in on this one.

Palladium Fantasy Old Ones supplement has a class called the Scholar Monk or some such. It is completely non-combat. Can only dodge or parry incoming attacks. On the plus side, its dodge and parry is like ninja-level, and the class has a ridiculous amount of skills and languages it knows. I think it can identify magic stuff as well, but cannot use magic.

If anything, you can DL a pdf and use it for ideas. It's a pretty thorough class write-up.