After playing a lot of dark fantasy and modern horror games I came across a lot of cultists and a lot of evil mages or witches. What seperates those two from each other? At first it seems obvious. Mages and witches do it for power, but cultists do it to serve a higher power. But then those two seem to overlap. Sometimes cultists use magic and sometimes mages or witches worship a higher power. It becomes even more confusing if magic users summon a ghost, spirit or demon to do their bidding. What if they make a deal with such a being? What if they sign a demon pact or give away a part of their soul? Does that still count as witchcraft or do they start being a cultist?

I don't believe you will find a definition other than what you choose. Witches would be part of a cult. A cultist may be a witch.

A cultist is someone who belongs to a cult. That's it.  They could have power or not.
A witch could have a hundred definitions, but almost all of them include having some magical power or occult knowledge.

Quote from: Dumarest;973063I don't believe you will find a definition other than what you choose. Witches would be part of a cult. A cultist may be a witch.

This is it mate... You could definitely find a witch in a cult.

Also, it depends on the game as well. They seem to stick to smaller groups (covens) when not being solitary. A traditional Witch has often ben associated with an evil higher power (Satanism or what have you). Same as a most eveil cults.

So, I'd guess, that they would be considered a cultist if they were in an actual cult as Krueger said.

Pile of wood for the witch.

Shotgun and a pile of wood for the cultist.

Quote from: CRKrueger;973075A cultist is someone who belongs to a cult. That's it.  They could have power or not.
A witch could have a hundred definitions, but almost all of them include having some magical power or occult knowledge.

Actually I thought this could be an interesting discussion. But now I read the answers I realise this might be the dumbest thing I ever asked on here. A cultist could be a witch, but doesn't have to be. And a witch could be in a cult, but could also be a member of another group like a coven for example. They are not mutually exclusive.

Quote from: jan paparazzi;973093Actually I thought this could be an interesting discussion. But now I read the answers I realise this might be the dumbest thing I ever asked on here. A cultist could be a witch, but doesn't have to be. And a witch could be in a cult, but could also be a member of another group like a coven for example. They are not mutually exclusive.

Exactly.  They're not mutually exclusive.  Don't sweat the question either, the words have different meanings and implications in different languages.

I think really at this point in time, witch has no meaning anymore, other than someone who does (real) magic.

You have TV witches like Samantha and Sabrina (okay, the latter was a comic first). You have the modern Wiccan witches who are like pagan Ned Flanders.  You have good and evil witches like in the Wizard of Oz. You have things like Fire and Snow witches from songs, books, and movies.  You have the classic, devil worshiping, hex casting witch. In my favorite fantasy series (Ethshar) witches are spellcasters that use their own energy for their spellcasting, so they are very limited (but can do almost everything)

Which witch is right? It's in the eye of the beholder.

Quote from: JeremyR;973110I think really at this point in time, witch has no meaning anymore, other than someone who does (real) magic.

You have TV witches like Samantha and Sabrina (okay, the latter was a comic first). You have the modern Wiccan witches who are like pagan Ned Flanders.  You have good and evil witches like in the Wizard of Oz. You have things like Fire and Snow witches from songs, books, and movies.  You have the classic, devil worshiping, hex casting witch. In my favorite fantasy series (Ethshar) witches are spellcasters that use their own energy for their spellcasting, so they are very limited (but can do almost everything)

Which witch is right? It's in the eye of the beholder.

I usually mean the more pagan influenced traditional primitive hedge magic. As opposed to the more scholarly bookish hermetic magic.

Quote from: JeremyR;973110.....
Which witch is right? It's in the eye of the beholder.

They can't do magic in the eye of the Beholder.  Its a null magic zone.

Quote from: jan paparazzi;973093Actually I thought this could be an interesting discussion. But now I read the answers I realise this might be the dumbest thing I ever asked on here. A cultist could be a witch, but doesn't have to be. And a witch could be in a cult, but could also be a member of another group like a coven for example. They are not mutually exclusive.

In general...

A cultist tends to be the rank and file, often the non-powered believers, the non-leader types. Leaders tend to be referred to as all sorts of things from Cult Leaders, High Priests, High Cultist, etc to differentiate. So in general cultist = low level cannon fodder.

A witch as others have noted could be anything and witches tend to not be associated with cults, but instead with covens. You might have someone claiming to be a witch running a cult. But personally thats to me a tip off that this likely isnt a witch.

YMMV because of course because some idiot out there has and will use either term to mean "anything on earth".

Quote from: Telarus;973148

Is that Clarissa?

It's all burred lines.

A witch could be a Wiccan; the group generally appropriated the insult of "witch" and normalized it into something less nefarious. In the RPG world we have seen many interpretations from "those who practice nature magic" to those who "draw the magic from within" to "those who entreat deities, spirits and The Bad Gods". Then you have all the TV/Movie interpretations. Looking at how many different portrayals there are, I feel as a culture we're pretty confused/divided on what we believe a "witch" is.

Having practiced/studied Wicca/Traditional British Witchcraft, I find the actual religion to be considerably different than the Judeo-Christian mythology around Witches.

The Cultist has an equally complicated portrayal. Looking at Glorantha/Runequest/Mythras every structure worshiping a diety is a cult. If you're a member, you're a "cultist". From the CoC perspective, a cultist is an evil underground secret demon/Old-One worshiping deviant. Again, I think it's a perspective thing; the Judeo-Christian mythology paints anything not of God to be evil/wrong. If you practice another faith in the old world, you may see things very differently.

In the end it really depends on the flavor, genre and theme you're shooting for in your game/campaign/setting. Do you want witches to be the good guys or bad guys? Do you want cultists lurking in the dark practicing things Man Was Not Meant To Know? Maybe the witches are trying to subvert the government for some nefarious purpose while the cultists worship a collective of "angels" who are trying to protect humanity? As a gamer, I'm much more enamored with the creative ideas of the author than any "historical accuracy".

In my view, Witches can cast magic. Cultists are apprentices, wannabe freaks, muscle and other not-yet or not-ever casters.

Also, witches weigh the same as a duck.

Quote from: Headless;973143They can't do magic in the eye of the Beholder.  Its a null magic zone.

Awesome!