A long time ago I read somewhere that most people, especially men, tend to be drawn to things they liked/appreciated around the time they reached puberty. This could refer to movies, music, beauty or fashion trends and, in this case, RPG designs (as well as mechanics, I presume). I find this certainly seems to be true for me. For example, I started playing D&D with the Moldvay/Cook rules in 1981-82. We moved to AD&D a few months later, but I always kept playing B/X. More germane to this question, I find that I still prefer RPGs and game supplements utilizing fairly simple black-and-white art to flashy color products with glossy paper and fancu design aesthetics. I can certainly appreciate great art, color or not, but for me a great piece of B&W art still screams RPG adventure to me.
So what are your preferences along these lines and when did you start playing and with what game/system? Just curious as I found myself culling stuff from my collection today and most were newer things.
There's definitely some things I like more than others, as far as style. But the only consistent thing I'm sure of now is that I like shots of adventurers doing something, and can't stand the ones where it looks like they are posing for a reunion photo.
I never put much stock in explanations of "nostalgia" or "you never forget your first." For one thing, it wasn't true in my case. It may be because I started playing well before puberty. But I started with Basic D&D, moved onto a mish-mash of BECMI and AD&D, then 2E came out when I was 12, and that got added to the mish mash. And a couple years after that, all the guys I was gaming with were playing 2E--they didn't start as young as me--and so I went to a pure 2E game. It was after that I switched to a pure 1E game. And even then you might call it really a 1.5E game since I used UA and the survival guides, and all that. By the time I was about 21, I switched to just core 1E as the absolute best version of D&D. A couple years later, Gary Gygax's Lejendary Adventure RPG would unseat D&D as my favorite RPG.
In my case, by happenstance of tastes, it's easy to see nostalgia and puberty don't explain much. I have to think it's just as possible for happenstance of tastes for some might seem to validate nostalgia and puberty theories. But either way, I think we do a disservice when we try to pass it off as some sort of psychological phenomenon rather than actually trying to figure out what the awesome is that draws us to these things when there's no surface level reason for liking them. We're missing out on a learning opportunity.
Anyway, for game books, I do prefer black and white sketch art. Because color works don't always go well on a white page, and white page w/ black ink, no matter how "boring" that may look aesthetically is easiest to read and, in a world of digital products, easiest to print at home.
When it's not interior art to an RPG book, I do in fact like color art. Now maybe my years of the superior practicality of black-and-white sketches has had some influence on my tastes. Because when I do my own color art, I still like the black outlines to be there, and I go more subtle on the color. Kind of a hybrid between a sketch and a full color image.
But even though you could link this preference to the old black and white art of my puberty, the more pertinent factor here is that I like art that is stylized. So if you take an outdated art style, give it black outlines and soften the colors, that does create something that is satisfyingly stylized to me. It's the stylization more than the pining for my youth that does it for me.
My first RPG had an awesome box cover based on Moorckocks Elric.
But shortly after this I fell hard for the art of Angus McBride, and I suppose that was around the time I hit puberty. And to be honest he was technically brilliant in every way. I actually looked at several RPGs at the time, and McBride's covers was probably a big reason why I picked Rolemaster. One day, I'll run a campaign where characters and places are based on his MERP/RM covers.
That little theory is an oversimplification, but there is a decent amount of truth to it. Those are formative years where we tend to lay down foundations for our views and interests. Most people tend to have strong memories from that age when they are weak earlier than that. That's essentially how nostalgia works. Every generation has its "good old days."
I can observe that being true for me, with some exceptions. I tend to prefer games that were developed, at least in part, in the 80's into the early 90's. But I also think that's because many new games these days just kinda suck.
I much prefer 80s style black and white line art and two columns of text in a decent sized font really. I realize that rpgs need to be art books but it's gone too far.
Quote from: David Johansen on October 21, 2023, 10:41:37 PM
I much prefer 80s style black and white line art and two columns of text in a decent sized font really. I realize that rpgs need to be art books but it's gone too far.
That's because most games these days are not intended to be played. They are intended to be looked at briefly and then discussed online by people acting like they actually played them.
Much later, I also found that I liked the old sketchy Runequest art of Luise Perrin.
This thread needs art. Personally, I think Angus McBride was technically (and some might say aesthetically too) the best illustrator RPGs ever had.
(https://www.icewebring.com/MERP_Print_Ref/3111AFront.jpg)
But what about dragons and such, you ask? Angus McBride goes "hold my beer".
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-qiroFsmQyfM/Ty68IB-D2mI/AAAAAAAAA78/dwBTXOpf-jg/s1600/Smaug.jpg)
Angus McBride was, indeed, an incredible artist. I often wonder how ICE got so lucky.
I've always wanted to see a game illustrated by Boris Vallejo. Not the borderline nsfw stuff, but something like this, https://www.borisjulie.com/product/sunrise-original/ (https://www.borisjulie.com/product/sunrise-original/)
[edit]
... After a quick look I was surprised to find that he actually has illustrated some RPG material
Another case study proving your thesis: The mid 1980s, when I turned 14.
I also have a love for the Mid-Century Modernist look, which is unusual, because this dates from before I was born. Maybe it's all the nostalgic reruns we watched growing up: My Favorite Martian/Leave It To Beaver/Gilligan's Island, etc. My wife, a mid-20th century model, also influenced this passion, as I help her maintain her web site, Doo Wop City. (https://doo-wop.city) Since I'm so immersed in this world (and I live in a retro-future town), it's part of my local aesthetic.
I just got an original Star Frontiers in the mail this week, if you need more proof of my love of the 1980s. I also created and play an RPG ABOUT the 1980s, and the modules are filled with more nostalgia than a season of The Goldbergs. I try to make the art look like it was drawn by not a professional, but a fan who has skills, but lacks the discipline. Here's a character stat card with a sample of the art I'm talking about
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1110676580373643375/1114212571357134969/sample-profile.png?ex=65451052&is=65329b52&hm=8f6a6f9c7047f44fd3a782bc142d0e744fb4ba8eab30460f3c483388db6d3ddc&)
I started playing around 1989-90, when I was 13-14. Played B/X for around a year tops--never really liked it, but it was what my group played and I saw the potential in it. I liked the idea of the game more than the system itself. Palladium's Robotech was my second RPG. I liked that system slightly more, but it also had its issue that got on my nerves.
Around that time I got my own books and jumped straight to 2e, and never looked back. I also played RIFTS around that time, and while I liked the setting and some of the system's ideas, the system's glaring issues were too much, and I eventually just dropped it. 2e was my main system for most of my teenage years, but I also tried a bunch of other games (Cyberpunk 2020, Shadowrun, and others I don't recall off the bat), and I had a love-hate relationship 2e, since I still had issues with the system despite liking it more than B/X.
I like 3e and 5e more, except that they're a bit too bloated (specially 3e). 5e is the only D&D that I'd likely play now. The only thing I prefer about 2e was the art (some of it), but not out of nostalgia, but because it was simply better. TSR simply had some of the best artists in RPGs back then, and WotC era D&D is just plastic, derivative art. Though, 5e has the best layout of any edition of D&D, but not by much. 3e had the worse (as bloated as the system itself).
I tend to prefer more modern systems and layout designs, provided that they're not bloated and overdone. I like slick, clean layout design that's elegant and easy to read, and doesn't try to make a RPG textbook look like a video game. Overall I'm not driven by nostalgia at all, though I do feel a tinge of it when looking at 2e and Palladium stuff. But when I dig deep into what those games actually have to offer I always realize I've move on from those systems completely.
Quote from: Trond on October 21, 2023, 09:52:35 PM
My first RPG had an awesome box cover based on Moorckocks Elric.
But shortly after this I fell hard for the art of Angus McBride, and I suppose that was around the time I hit puberty. And to be honest he was technically brilliant in every way. I actually looked at several RPGs at the time, and McBride's covers was probably a big reason why I picked Rolemaster. One day, I'll run a campaign where characters and places are based on his MERP/RM covers.
Totally agree on the Angus McBride covers. The interior art for ICE was more inconsistent and they tended to recycle it, but there are still some great black and white pieces scattered about. I'm currently re-reading some MERP adventures for a possible campaign next year and it was these visuals that prompted my query.
Nostalgia is a thing (I spent most of yesterday playing Castlevania) but we can appreciate new things too (Dark Souls, for me).
I love B/X and BE but I see some value in 5e.
If we are talking "Preferred Design/Visual Aesthetic", 5e is AWESOME. The layout, background colors, how images "flow" into the page with no hard lines, etc.
But I love the OS aesthetic too. Russ Nicholson is a favorite for B&W art.
Angus McBride is awesome, Brom, DiTerlizzi, Caldwell...
OS art seemed more evocative somehow. This is how I picture D&D, despite recognizing the new books look good - and some books that I like look bad (including the DMG and the RC; 2e revised PHB hss especially horrible despite the colorful and somewhat pleasing design).
Among artists/illustrators with a more sketchy style, I often agree with those who find considerable charm in Luise Perrin's work, of Runequest fame. Here are a couple of pieces you might not have seen before.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53277854893_f462912866_z.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53276679402_6ca3639a91_z.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53277567136_93925d6239_z.jpg)
Quote from: Persimmon on October 22, 2023, 09:13:32 AM
Quote from: Trond on October 21, 2023, 09:52:35 PM
My first RPG had an awesome box cover based on Moorckocks Elric.
But shortly after this I fell hard for the art of Angus McBride, and I suppose that was around the time I hit puberty. And to be honest he was technically brilliant in every way. I actually looked at several RPGs at the time, and McBride's covers was probably a big reason why I picked Rolemaster. One day, I'll run a campaign where characters and places are based on his MERP/RM covers.
Totally agree on the Angus McBride covers. The interior art for ICE was more inconsistent and they tended to recycle it, but there are still some great black and white pieces scattered about. I'm currently re-reading some MERP adventures for a possible campaign next year and it was these visuals that prompted my query.
I remember one or two internal art pieces, particularly in RM Classic (well after their heyday), that were just downright confusing. There's a piece where it looks like some people are just hanging out at a birthday party, except that there's another guy standing on the table with a dagger in his back. I was scratching my head and wondering WTF is going on.
I have a bit of love for the Fiend Folio that can be directly attributed to the art of Russ Nicholson. Certainly it isn't the monsters, many of which are a bit lackluster.
90s black and white style like SLA 1e.
I'm not sure that I agree with the general sentiment of the OP about where preferences are determined.
Aesthetically, I find modern materials more pleasing than those of the 80s and early-90s. As DTP software came into the fray, layouts and general design of RPGs improved dramatically. For someone with even a nonce of knowledge, you can create good-looking products. If there's anything that I don't like about the current state of play in layouts is the semi-move to digest-sized publications (paralleling the adoption of "lite" systems, maybe?).
In terms of systems, the ones that I played back in my teens are not the ones that I play--nor would want to play--now. WFRP and AD&D were my first and, while WFRP still has an appealing setting, none of the subsequent games have turned me back onto using their system over a generic one. (GURPSHammer is, for me, far better. But then again, I like GURPS.)
Among newer publications, this is what I call a great cover. I recognize the style of Mark Smylie (Artesia) here. He's contributed some art to a couple of different RPG products, and I believe he's always been a fan of Runequest.
(https://brpcentral-uploads.s3.amazonaws.com/monthly_2020_12/481628401_CHA4034RBoMFrontCover.thumb.jpg.ae61364b63b32cbf12caeed99e75442b.jpg)
anime art. 80s, 90s, 2000s, 2010s, 2020s. any is good.
Nostalgia might cause me to buy some books, but it doesn't influence which games I actually play. The first rpg I really dove into was AD&D 1e when the DMG was released in '79, but my friends and I started to play many other systems as they became available, such as Traveller, Top Secret, Call of Cthulhu, and James Bond. However, I now mostly play The Dark Eye and Savage Worlds - games I didn't learn how to play until about five years ago.
As for art, I find most of the interior illustrations in WotC books to be absolutely dreadful. Paizo and Kobold Press have better artists and I can only guess that WotC selects its illustrators on the basis of connections or their woke credentials. I also wish that Angus McBride had produced more rpg covers, but I do own several Osprey books that he illustrated.
I like evocative art and minimalist design.
The art I've found evocative includes different aesthetics, and is more about the specific artist for me: Trampier, Otus, Parkinson, Brom are my dudes.
I don't think this is nostalgic. I started playing in '77, so even Parkinson and Brom were "later" for me.
And I was thinking about the design aesthetic of 1e, which I loved as kid, precisely because it's a mess. Those books, with their tiny print, purple prose, infinite detail, and systematic chaos, are decidedly not minimalist. They felt like ancient tomes of arcane knowledge themselves, that needed to be sifted through for clues, details, and everything put together somehow to create ... magic.
I'm still a huge fan of Errol Otus.
Quote from: Trond on October 21, 2023, 11:42:30 PM
This thread needs art. Personally, I think Angus McBride was technically (and some might say aesthetically too) the best illustrator RPGs ever had.
You may be right.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-QwyJIu4d7mw/VVxtduLnX6I/AAAAAAAACXs/glTMbq5Tgv8/s500/great15l.gif)
May tastes have changed quite a bit over the years. I thought Parkinson and Brom were the pinnacle of RPG art at one point. Now my taste is more Ralph McQuarrie and Moebius. Going back in time I don't think there has been a better fantasy artist than JW Waterhouse. Can you imagine an entire RPG with art of this caliber?
(https://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large-5/circe-invidiosa-john-william-waterhouse-.jpg)
MERP: "Hey Angus. can you make a spooky cover illustration? It's just an adventure module based on Tolkien's Mewlip monsters that live in swamps"
Angus McBride:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53280534143_6d8a3897d6_c.jpg)
This thread has made me realise that I don't really pay that much attention to the artists in game books. I mean, the only artists that I remember are from Games Workshop products because they almost seemed to have their own cults behind them, e.g. John Blanche.
All the others that have been mentioned, with the exception of Bromm? Never heard of them.
Seems to me that I should pay more attention to the unsung heroes of many TTRPGs.
Quote from: Persimmon on October 21, 2023, 08:40:56 PM
A long time ago I read somewhere that most people, especially men, tend to be drawn to things they liked/appreciated around the time they reached puberty. This could refer to movies, music, beauty or fashion trends and, in this case, RPG designs (as well as mechanics, I presume). I find this certainly seems to be true for me. For example, I started playing D&D with the Moldvay/Cook rules in 1981-82. We moved to AD&D a few months later, but I always kept playing B/X. More germane to this question, I find that I still prefer RPGs and game supplements utilizing fairly simple black-and-white art to flashy color products with glossy paper and fancu design aesthetics. I can certainly appreciate great art, color or not, but for me a great piece of B&W art still screams RPG adventure to me.
So what are your preferences along these lines and when did you start playing and with what game/system? Just curious as I found myself culling stuff from my collection today and most were newer things.
Like you, I started with B/X and soon moved on to AD&D (1e). I was initially drawn to D&D by the B&W art, especially that of Jeff Dee and David Trampier.
(https://i0.wp.com/www.tor.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/DND-Trampier04.jpg?fit=600%2C%209999&crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C824px)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-vwN2_kzVdMc/TfIsdVyteaI/AAAAAAAAB9A/EaozYlfLUXc/s1600/jeff+d.jpg)
I was a comic books fan and their work reminded me of artists such as John Byrne and Barry Windsor-Smith. Without knowing what all the stats meant I was drawn in by the evocative artwork of books like Deities & Demigods and the Player's Handbook. In no time I was playing which eventually led to running adventures. If not for the art I'm not sure I'd be playing ttrpgs at all.
I know we probably wouldn't get along if we met, and he's pretty far out there as a political wacko, but I have a deep appreciation for Luka Rejec's art.
(https://doubleproficiency.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/p22-city-mountain-uvg.jpg)
(https://www.lukarejec.com/wp-content/uploads/Adijo-Ati-Zdravo-Dan-768x768.jpg)
There's something that speaks to me about outlines, heavy ink, and bright colors. It's not quite a comic book. It's detailed without being noisy — a lot of woodblock-style prints and heavy inked B&W art is unreadable to me, or difficult to read since without color you're stuck for contrast options. As an unrelated note, I come from a family of artists (one of whom is rather famous) and incidentally found clear inspiration drawn from a family member's work in his art for UVG, which was a funny thing to note when someone's style and influences are so obvious that they can be so clearly spotted in another's work.
I enjoy imperial symbolism and Art Deco-inspired works, too. ACKS II's hardcovers, for instance, are gorgeous pieces. They're something I'd put on my own work, if I yet had a book appropriate to publish.
Quote from: Thor's Nads on October 23, 2023, 02:02:41 PM
May tastes have changed quite a bit over the years. I thought Parkinson and Brom were the pinnacle of RPG art at one point. Now my taste is more Ralph McQuarrie and Moebius. Going back in time I don't think there has been a better fantasy artist than JW Waterhouse. Can you imagine an entire RPG with art of this caliber?
Waterhouse is great - but in terms of RPGs, I care much more about how the illustrations work to convey the genre and setting, rather than just independent skill. I think one of the best examples for me is the Paranoia RPG.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1a/Paranoia-1st-edition-cover.jpg)
James Holloway's cartoons instantly convey the tone of the game, especially combined with the little sidebars and messages from the Computer scattered through the text. I think it's the example of where the illustrations really worked to convey the
As a contrast, Skyrealms of Jorune had beautiful illustrations conveying its world, but it was very unclear what the adventures would be like, so I think it doesn't work as well as graphic design
for an RPG. I also liked the design of Star Wars D6 and the James Bond 007 RPG - but that's a little apples and oranges, because they're relying on the license to convey a lot of the tone and feel.
I do think Vampire: the Masquerade did a good job too with illustrations and tone, even though I don't like the game itself.
For D&D, I think Erol Otus came closest to conveying the tone and feel for me of actual adventures, but there's still a dissonance.
I was in my 20s when I discovered Heavy Gear. I think the art sold me as much as the mechanics and the overall setting (which is excellent).
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/63543333d66db9131dd479a8/e96bb071-ba9e-4abb-b048-5d3475283663/HG-battle.jpg)
Quote from: Kage2020 on October 23, 2023, 06:05:07 PM
This thread has made me realise that I don't really pay that much attention to the artists in game books. I mean, the only artists that I remember are from Games Workshop products because they almost seemed to have their own cults behind them, e.g. John Blanche.
All the others that have been mentioned, with the exception of Bromm? Never heard of them.
Seems to me that I should pay more attention to the unsung heroes of many TTRPGs.
Meh. I've worked as a pro artist in video games and tabletop games for over 25 years. Few give a crap about the art or artists. Sure they might complain if it is really bad, or notice the exceptional piece now and then, but I can tell you art is a commodity. Like aluminum cans, used and thrown away, sometimes recycled.
But I like art! You might say. You are in the minority. 90% of people really don't care much. It was a hard lesson for me to learn as I've been so passionate about art since I was young.
This is why I don't care much about AI art. Since art is a commodity it might as well be produced quickly and cheaply, used and thrown away.
Quote from: Thor's Nads on October 25, 2023, 08:29:51 PM
Quote from: Kage2020 on October 23, 2023, 06:05:07 PM
This thread has made me realise that I don't really pay that much attention to the artists in game books. I mean, the only artists that I remember are from Games Workshop products because they almost seemed to have their own cults behind them, e.g. John Blanche.
All the others that have been mentioned, with the exception of Bromm? Never heard of them.
Seems to me that I should pay more attention to the unsung heroes of many TTRPGs.
Meh. I've worked as a pro artist in video games and tabletop games for over 25 years. Few give a crap about the art or artists. Sure they might complain if it is really bad, or notice the exceptional piece now and then, but I can tell you art is a commodity. Like aluminum cans, used and thrown away, sometimes recycled.
But I like art! You might say. You are in the minority. 90% of people really don't care much. It was a hard lesson for me to learn as I've been so passionate about art since I was young.
This is why I don't care much about AI art. Since art is a commodity it might as well be produced quickly and cheaply, used and thrown away.
Well, I guess I am in that 10% who find it very important. Looking back, I realize that quite a few of the books I bought back in the day were because of the art. I also have some pet peeve styles that just turn me off so fast. Off the top of my head; Exalted (bleh).
If I was to choose an RPG purely on aesthetics, it doesn't get much better than Symbaroum.
(https://www.allrolledup.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/symbaroum-1-600x823.jpg)
(https://saveorquit.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/1.jpg)
(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/0e/9d/b2/0e9db2ab252c9fc4144a08331aef2132.jpg)
Though i don't like the RPG much, Tales from the Loop has retro1980s art that looks like VHS freeze-frames. I mentioned my love of retro and the 1980s ad this is a perfect example.
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/689cfcf86d6a18f983bd89db56691bad/tumblr_o9l098hzH41vtg7e4o1_1280.jpg)
This and other Tronpunk art.
As much as I like MERP, I also think The One Ring did a good job with the aesthetic. It's not at McBride level, but most of the art (at least at the start) fit Tolkien's Middle-Earth very nicely. For instance, if you read Tolkien, you'll notice that he pays attention to nature (more than most fantasy writers) and of course languages and scripts were a big deal. I like the inclusion of Tolkien-runes on the dice as well.
(https://d3fa68hw0m2vcc.cloudfront.net/d53/183124846.jpeg)
Quote from: Thor's Nads on October 25, 2023, 08:29:51 PM
Quote from: Kage2020 on October 23, 2023, 06:05:07 PM
This thread has made me realise that I don't really pay that much attention to the artists in game books. I mean, the only artists that I remember are from Games Workshop products because they almost seemed to have their own cults behind them, e.g. John Blanche.
All the others that have been mentioned, with the exception of Bromm? Never heard of them.
Seems to me that I should pay more attention to the unsung heroes of many TTRPGs.
Meh. I've worked as a pro artist in video games and tabletop games for over 25 years. Few give a crap about the art or artists. Sure they might complain if it is really bad, or notice the exceptional piece now and then, but I can tell you art is a commodity. Like aluminum cans, used and thrown away, sometimes recycled.
But I like art! You might say. You are in the minority. 90% of people really don't care much. It was a hard lesson for me to learn as I've been so passionate about art since I was young.
This is why I don't care much about AI art. Since art is a commodity it might as well be produced quickly and cheaply, used and thrown away.
This is depressing but true.
I published several RPGs, only one with actual professional, original art. It didn't seem to make a difference at all in sales, reviews, etc.
Nowadays I avoid AI art because I prefer to encourage actual artists, but I think it is inevitable.
Artists take time and money, as they should, but you cannot compete with machines working 10 times faster and cheaper if the buyer doesn't care about the difference.
I give WotC a year to go full AI. Heck, average AI is already doing better than most professional, digital-assisted WotC art.
Quote from: Thor's Nads on October 25, 2023, 08:29:51 PM
Quote from: Kage2020 on October 23, 2023, 06:05:07 PM
This thread has made me realise that I don't really pay that much attention to the artists in game books. I mean, the only artists that I remember are from Games Workshop products because they almost seemed to have their own cults behind them, e.g. John Blanche.
All the others that have been mentioned, with the exception of Bromm? Never heard of them.
Seems to me that I should pay more attention to the unsung heroes of many TTRPGs.
Meh. I've worked as a pro artist in video games and tabletop games for over 25 years. Few give a crap about the art or artists. Sure they might complain if it is really bad, or notice the exceptional piece now and then, but I can tell you art is a commodity. Like aluminum cans, used and thrown away, sometimes recycled.
But I like art! You might say. You are in the minority. 90% of people really don't care much. It was a hard lesson for me to learn as I've been so passionate about art since I was young.
This is why I don't care much about AI art. Since art is a commodity it might as well be produced quickly and cheaply, used and thrown away.
Where does someone like me go on the list? I can see the art and art-like layout work for Mongoose makes the products prettier. But I like the simple original Traveller rules just as much. And would rather the money be spent on cleaning up errata. Which is why I prefer Stellagama and similar products.
And I'm someone who appreciates art - as art. I was visiting a then-girlfriend and her mom. And they had a bunch of artwork from a kindergarten class. I took one look and said "It looks like a project on Mondrian." Her mom only knew I was a computer programmer and studied Aikido, and she was very surprised I knew anything about art.
For my wife and I, AI art meant we could do small, fun pieces for our weekly blog. We couldn't even find someone who advertised prices that we could remotely hire or that would be available routinely, that didn't look like they were using AI for it anyway. (Unlimited changes for $20 means you're using AI, yes? LOL) We have Stable Diffusion at home and will be getting Adobe Firefly at some point.
We picked this sort of style for our blog https://casasent.blog (https://casasent.blog). It fits the delightfully weird, slightly humorous style of our writing.
(https://casasent.blog/blog/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/header-cowboy-spaceship.png)
Quote from: Eric Diaz on October 27, 2023, 09:30:16 AM
Quote from: Thor's Nads on October 25, 2023, 08:29:51 PM
Quote from: Kage2020 on October 23, 2023, 06:05:07 PM
This thread has made me realise that I don't really pay that much attention to the artists in game books. I mean, the only artists that I remember are from Games Workshop products because they almost seemed to have their own cults behind them, e.g. John Blanche.
All the others that have been mentioned, with the exception of Bromm? Never heard of them.
Seems to me that I should pay more attention to the unsung heroes of many TTRPGs.
Meh. I've worked as a pro artist in video games and tabletop games for over 25 years. Few give a crap about the art or artists. Sure they might complain if it is really bad, or notice the exceptional piece now and then, but I can tell you art is a commodity. Like aluminum cans, used and thrown away, sometimes recycled.
But I like art! You might say. You are in the minority. 90% of people really don't care much. It was a hard lesson for me to learn as I've been so passionate about art since I was young.
This is why I don't care much about AI art. Since art is a commodity it might as well be produced quickly and cheaply, used and thrown away.
This is depressing but true.
I published several RPGs, only one with actual professional, original art. It didn't seem to make a difference at all in sales, reviews, etc.
Nowadays I avoid AI art because I prefer to encourage actual artists, but I think it is inevitable.
Artists take time and money, as they should, but you cannot compete with machines working 10 times faster and cheaper if the buyer doesn't care about the difference.
I give WotC a year to go full AI. Heck, average AI is already doing better than most professional, digital-assisted WotC art.
For myself, I do not care much for digitally produced art of any sort, so AI produced or not it is all kind of the same to me. Real meatspace drawings and paintings is the only way to compete with and overcome AI art. Digital rendering is digital rendering whether by a human or AI, it all looks kind of the same. Real art beats a digital rendering any day.
Of course, it's hard to argue against an RPG book which is written and illustrated by the same guy, who also came up with the entire world in question. I'm talking about Artesia here.
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Uk9cERqOf80/UkjD1vrhUVI/AAAAAAAAMQg/TGUiMTQlFN0/s1600/artesia-rpg-1.jpg)
Found a nice scan of 1st ed Runequest cover. It was colorized on 2nd edition, but I like this version too.
(https://www.chaosium.com/product_images/uploaded_images/rq1-cover.png)
I have to admit that aesthetic of Talislanta, with all its colorful weirdness, has always piqued my interest.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-EPNZGEXsM-w/VE5veQbqp4I/AAAAAAAAF5E/SLwY9Muhhok/s1600/talislanta.jpg)
Medieval Europe, but without the smell and disease. Properly built towns with septic sewers, some modest colors, plenty to eat, all possible because just enough magic exists to deal with problems like clean water.
An idealized medieval aesthetic.
Then, as you travel each nation has a real world style, like Japan, Arabia, Spain, Egypt, Greek, Norse, and Mongol. But stylized and better. More interesting.
And pretty princesses, or rich old retired adventurers exist everywhere that need your help.
Quotesome modest colors
modesty in colours is utterly un-medieval
Quote from: weirdguy564 on November 17, 2023, 01:09:58 PM
Medieval Europe, but without the smell and disease. Properly built towns with septic sewers, some modest colors, plenty to eat, all possible because just enough magic exists to deal with problems like clean water.
An idealized medieval aesthetic.
Then, as you travel each nation has a real world style, like Japan, Arabia, Spain, Egypt, Greek, Norse, and Mongol. But stylized and better. More interesting.
And pretty processes, and rich old retired adventurers exist everywhere that need your help.
Kinda like a medieval EPCOT.
I started playing role-playing games in 2010 when my Dad ran a short campaign of AD&D 2e for me. This started me on the path of liking history, fantasy, and a ton of other things. It also led me to find interest in war gaming and other RPGs. I still play a lot of AD&D 2e as well as BECMI.
What really stuck with me were a lot of the older styles of art. It was all so evocative, and there was a real mixture of different influences outside of art. I was just starting to figure out what I liked, so I found my love for Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath while I was reading the red box basic set. The mixture of music and art just screamed, "this right here is D&D!" to me. This was around the time I also started reading Lord of the Rings. Needless to say it was like I reached some sort of nerd nirvana.
Later on I practically ate up anything medieval in my High School's library, which were even older books about knights and medieval life from the 1950s/60s. It's created a very fond appreciation for a lot of things that are way older than I am. I also really appreciated detailed medieval pieces such as pre-raphaelites, or Victorian-era fantasy pieces. That stuff takes me away to another place I could just sit and think about all day.
So I guess when I play D&D, if you wanted a description of what I see, it would be:
Led Zeppelin's "Ramble On" playing over scenes in the styles of Caldwell and Edmund Blair Leighton.
Quote from: Wrath of God on November 17, 2023, 03:21:10 PM
Quotesome modest colors
modesty in colours is utterly un-medieval
Somewhat.
I'll also mention that I have some colors in the buildings and clothing of the people in a fantasy setting.
However, vibrant colors are for the rich. A normal person will have muted colored clothes and possessions because dyes and such were hard to get. A regular peasant will have earth tone colored clothes and such, because that is what they can afford. I'll boost it up a bit and let them have clean clothes, nicely maintained houses with fresh white-washed exteriors, interiors that have slate floors (they're tightly fitted flat stones on top of sand, itself on top of the dirt floor), and polished wood bits that look well oiled and nice color. But, they won't have a door that is painted bright green and a blue house.
Purple in particular. It was considered the color of royalty because it was so damned hard to make purple dye (I think the only real purple dye of the time came from snails, and it wasn't much, and that made it cost a LOT).