My favorite thing, is that it quickly breaks up the fairy tale of typical D&D stories.  It has unique creative monsters, too.

It's still D&D, but more difficult.

You can't take necessities, for granted.

The utter brutality of the setting. Dark Sun pulls no punches. Halflings are cannibals, magic can irreparably damage the environment, metal itself is rare, and EVERYTHING has psionics. The conflict between good and evil takes a backseat to the conflict of surviving the environment. It was Sword & Sorcery with the volume turned up to 11.

When it came out, the closest setting that had that kind of "You're fucked" atmosphere was Twilight 2000 where you are a NATO troop and the last communication you got from your commanding officer was, "Good luck, you're on your own."

We loved it then and I still do today.

Echoing Jeff, but for me and mine it was just the complete refocus from epic heroism to adventures where survival was a struggle and going the extra step to actually help others survive too felt exceptionally heroic.

While I know most here are going to be referring to 2e, my experience with it comes from 4E, which among 4E fans was regarded as really where 4E finally came together. They'd finally figured out the monster math and issues with solo monsters resulting in truly deadly and exciting monsters for basically the first time. On the player side the 4E engine allowed for a lack of magic items and heavier armor to just work without needing special rules, and the power source mechanics showed off how you could discard the whole divine power source and still have the game run fine without any modifications needed to account for Athiss being a godless world (and really highlighted the primal and psionic classes).

The expanded options for martial classes of 4E plus Dark Sun being the introductory point for themes and boons and solidifying inherent bonuses (a version had appeared in the DMG2, but Dark Sun cleaned it up and showed how it could help tailor the game to settings with low or even no magic). It really made apparent how you could actually run the whole thing with virtually no magic items at all and things wouldn't unexpectedly break for lack of clerics and wizards.I

4E base classes also started out just beefy enough that you could start them from first level and 4E's attribute arrays/point buy and they'd be about as tough as 2e's method of improved attribute rolls and starting at 3rd level would.

For 4E fans Dark Sun epitomized what the system could actually do if you'd stop trying to run it like 1-3e. If anyone genuinely wanted to give 4E a shake, I'd absolutely recommend they run the 4E Dark Sun setting with it.

Quote from: Chris24601 on December 06, 2024, 12:37:45 AMEchoing Jeff, but for me and mine it was just the complete refocus from epic heroism to adventures where survival was a struggle and going the extra step to actually help others survive too felt exceptionally heroic.

While I know most here are going to be referring to 2e, my experience with it comes from 4E, which among 4E fans was regarded as really where 4E finally came together. They'd finally figured out the monster math and issues with solo monsters resulting in truly deadly and exciting monsters for basically the first time. On the player side the 4E engine allowed for a lack of magic items and heavier armor to just work without needing special rules, and the power source mechanics showed off how you could discard the whole divine power source and still have the game run fine without any modifications needed to account for Athiss being a godless world (and really highlighted the primal and psionic classes).

The expanded options for martial classes of 4E plus Dark Sun being the introductory point for themes and boons and solidifying inherent bonuses (a version had appeared in the DMG2, but Dark Sun cleaned it up and showed how it could help tailor the game to settings with low or even no magic). It really made apparent how you could actually run the whole thing with virtually no magic items at all and things wouldn't unexpectedly break for lack of clerics and wizards.I

4E base classes also started out just beefy enough that you could start them from first level and 4E's attribute arrays/point buy and they'd be about as tough as 2e's method of improved attribute rolls and starting at 3rd level would.

For 4E fans Dark Sun epitomized what the system could actually do if you'd stop trying to run it like 1-3e. If anyone genuinely wanted to give 4E a shake, I'd absolutely recommend they run the 4E Dark Sun setting with it.

I got into GMing 4th ed specifically because of the Dark Sun sourcebooks. I had a hell of a good time with it. Mostly because Dark Sun is so great, and like you say, that was the phase where they had worked out a lot of the kinks in 4th ed.

I came to Dark Sun in the Dark Ages (1992 or thereabouts).

The overwhelming trait that made it shine (Dark SUN ... get it? "Shine"? Ha!  ... sorry, anyway ...), was the freshness/uniqueness/difference from all the other settings being sold in those days. It took "different" to a whole new level, and changed your gaming expectations at the same time.
It might sound foolish today, but in the mid-80's, Krynn was fresh and different, Tolkien's hold was all but inescapable. Planescape and Dark Sun (along with Ravenloft) were the TSR properties (as Campaign settings) that really broke that mold.

Honorable mention to Talislanta, which sold itself as being anti-Tolkien/traditional for years before this.

I loved Dark Sun because it gave me an OPTION I didn't have before it was published.

Maybe my favorite part of Dark Sun is ... Brom.

Just look at his DS artwork and it screams "new" and "different" and you get the feeling that the campaign is kick-ass and really brutal and all of those things. When 4E put out the non-Brom DS rulebooks I feel like they lost a LOT of the setting.

My favorite thing about Dark Sun is that the world sucks. The PCs aren't fighting for the status quo, they are fighting to change the status quo. Or, at least, escape the status quo.
It seems like im every other setting, with the exception of Ravenloft, that the bad guys have to be stopped from changing things for the worse, but in Dark Sun, the bad guys are in charge.

I had to think about it for a bit. The thing I like best about Dark Sun is that the world is grim. Even the Good characters have to live in a world where everyone is out for themselves, and that means being idealistic just gets you robbed or killed or eaten. As someone who prefers more idealistic settings, Dark Sun is a fun break from that.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on December 07, 2024, 08:41:59 AMI had to think about it for a bit. The thing I like best about Dark Sun is that the world is grim. Even the Good characters have to live in a world where everyone is out for themselves, and that means being idealistic just gets you robbed or killed or eaten. As someone who prefers more idealistic settings, Dark Sun is a fun break from that.

My take on that is that such a bleak world makes being heroic and holding to ideals even more important.

One of the better "alignment" charts I've seen isn't for PCs, it for the setting.

One axis is Bright/Dark; is the world more a Utopia (or in comic terms Metropolis) or a Dystopia (Gotham or even Latvia under Doom).

The other axis is Noble/Grim; can the protagonists actually make a differ if they try to change things.

Grimdark, obviously is the world sucks and nothing you do will matter.I

Noblebright is the world is great and you can strive to make it better.

Grimbright is the world is great, but also stagnant and nothing you do leaves a lasting mark.

Nobledark is probably my favorite of the four extremes. The world is dark, dangerous and/or corrupt, but the protagonists are in a position that if they're willing to struggle and sacrifice for it, they can make a lasting difference.

That's also how I tend to view DarkSun. You could embrace things as they are, use your talent only to better your own condition -or- D&D's structure means you can, in time, challenge the Sorcerer-Kings, slay the Dragon of Tyr and heal the world (or at least start down the path of the latter).

The fact that, even if you're likely to fail, you can succeed in that is what makes the challenge worth undertaking.

i encountered it before knowing about dune so, the vibes. and i would say the harsh brutality of the setting, the reworking of the base classes and races into something almost totally different and the way magic is treated.
also dragon kings are rad. less so when you look at how they are (i expected dragons not fat lizardmen) but that's actually also part of the charm.

Quote from: Chris24601 on December 06, 2024, 12:37:45 AMEchoing Jeff, but for me and mine it was just the complete refocus from epic heroism to adventures where survival was a struggle and going the extra step to actually help others survive too felt exceptionally heroic.

While I know most here are going to be referring to 2e, my experience with it comes from 4E, which among 4E fans was regarded as really where 4E finally came together. They'd finally figured out the monster math and issues with solo monsters resulting in truly deadly and exciting monsters for basically the first time. On the player side the 4E engine allowed for a lack of magic items and heavier armor to just work without needing special rules, and the power source mechanics showed off how you could discard the whole divine power source and still have the game run fine without any modifications needed to account for Athiss being a godless world (and really highlighted the primal and psionic classes).

The expanded options for martial classes of 4E plus Dark Sun being the introductory point for themes and boons and solidifying inherent bonuses (a version had appeared in the DMG2, but Dark Sun cleaned it up and showed how it could help tailor the game to settings with low or even no magic). It really made apparent how you could actually run the whole thing with virtually no magic items at all and things wouldn't unexpectedly break for lack of clerics and wizards.I

4E base classes also started out just beefy enough that you could start them from first level and 4E's attribute arrays/point buy and they'd be about as tough as 2e's method of improved attribute rolls and starting at 3rd level would.

For 4E fans Dark Sun epitomized what the system could actually do if you'd stop trying to run it like 1-3e. If anyone genuinely wanted to give 4E a shake, I'd absolutely recommend they run the 4E Dark Sun setting with it.

didn't even know 4e had a dark sun setting for it, if i wanted to read it before now i just must do that

You guys are going to think I'm bat-shit insane, but I have my own setting for Dark Sun that is weird as hell.

You see, I saw the modules on the shelves, and in adverts in comic books or magazines. 

The problem is I never had the D&D game itself, so what I knew about Dark Sun was very limited.  I fleshed out the giant gaps in knowledge myself.  What I came up with is still with me to this day.

1.  The setting is a naturally occurring Dyson Sphere.  Digging down just results in colder and colder pits.  As far as anyone knows, the deep underground is a mystery, and so is the source of magma. 

Up above is a single star that is the center of this universe.  There is no such thing as night time.  There are seasons as the star cycles hot and cold in a year long process.  However, this universe is old.  The star is starting to show signs that all is not well, chief amount them is a change in hue so now everything is a sepia tone as sunlight isn't white anymore, but a dimmer yellow.  It's also getting hotter, and deserts are expanding.

2.  Metal is rare.  It was mostly destroyed in a magic war that didn't just cause it to rust, but literally eliminated most of it, everywhere.  Almost nobody knows who did it, probably so far away that you'll never meet them.  A Dyson Sphere is truly massive after all.  An elf will die of old age before they circumnavigate the world. 

However, it was magic.  Everyone knows this.  Because of this magicians are reviled, often killed on sight.  You can play one, but keep it a secret.

3.  Resources are hard to come by.  Just getting food and water is often all you need as a reward. 

4.  Sailing ships that travel over land are a thing.  They hover using a stone you heat, yet the rock core of your ship never gets hot to the touch.  The heat just gets stored somehow.  It takes days of heating over bonfires to "fill" a decent sized ship core up, and weeks for the same core to lose the ability to hold the ship up.  Sailors routinely go from coal mine to forest to oil wells, days away from each other.  When they arrive they open a hatch, pull out their core using chains like a giant helium balloon that's droopy from helium loss, and then set about burning it for a few days to refuel.

The ships are not a solid hull.  They're more like a bunch of platforms and rooms attached to a framework.  Being watertight is only important if you also fly over water, but then it's more often you switch to water sailing ships like we're used to.  Hover ships stay away from water. 

5.  It Mad Max meets Conan meets Princess of Mars.

Quote from: jeff37923 on December 05, 2024, 11:30:59 PMWhen it came out, the closest setting that had that kind of "You're fucked" atmosphere was Twilight 2000 where you are a NATO troop and the last communication you got from your commanding officer was, "Good luck, you're on your own."

The military side of the original Albedo RPG had that same NATO level warfare lethality sort of feel. You got shot even in armor and with advanced medical... and you could still end up rolling a new character.

If you combined Dark Sun with the Wilderness Survival Guide book you had some really hostile environments and situations.

I just love how its not the "Kitchen Sink" setting, it makes you think of how to approach the game in a different way. It has less freedom, which can of course restrict the game, but i think it also ecourages more strategic thinking from the players.

My favorite thing about Dark Sun was always the art. As far as actually playing Dark Sun, I never felt it was all that great.