TheRPGSite

A Wide Open Question, without any qualifiers.

I own many editions of the game, and some OSR stuff too; but at the end of the day, I run a mish-mash homebrew more akin to the OD&D genre.

Either BECMI + the Gazetteers or 3/3.5E. While the 3E era is controversial to some, I'm always surprised by how seldom they notice how the quality of the writing (AKA fluff) in that era is still unparalleled. Same with BECMI.

Varies a lot over time for me, but I enjoy using 5e D&D to run a wide variety of styles & genres. Serious Conanesque Swords & Sorcery in Primeval Thule, gonzo Sword & Planet in the Wilderlands, and 1e-style heroic lowish fantasy sandbox in Forgotten Realms are three big ones.   

Definitely OSR.  My first choice would be Swords & Wizardry (Core) but will happily play or run LotFP also.

For pure dnd BECMI is it for me. If we're also including OSR my favorite game is DCC.

Whatever gives me the most plusses :)

Kidding, kidding. Honestly, I'm just happy to be rolling dice. Though 2E has some charm to it that I've missed.

Paladins & Princesses. :)

Of published options, BEMCI/RC or one of its close cousins.  As in, "If I get to have one D&D to use from now on," that's the one I'd pick.

That is my choice despite not really preferring "race as class", descending AC, the BEMCI saving throws, the BEMCI optional skills, racial level limits, etc.  Which says something, I guess, about how much I like other aspects of those games.

BECMI/RC and 2nd for me. Mostly because that is what I grew up with.

For genre, I prefer Sword and Sorcery(Conan/Lankhmar) and Dark Fantasy (Elric/Darker stories of Middle Earth) though my favorite D&D setting is Ravenloft.

BECMI and 4e.

I don't even know cuz D&D has changed so much throughout the editions it's hard to pin-point WTF "D&D" even is at this point, other than "It has the same six stats!", and I've always had nitpicks with every edition to begin with.

That being said, I like 3e as a basic framework to establish roll mechanics (d20+Mod), attack bonuses and ascending AC, and the idea of "Feats" (whose implementation SUCKS in 3e, but I like the concept), with bits of 5e (simplification of combat mechanics) and older editions (2e Kits and simplified classes with HD that cap out after a certain point), with and elements from 3rd party systems derived from d20 (like how PF 2e handles Skills using Ranks, for example, or using only three classes, like in True20).

EDIT/PS: I totally HATE D&D's magic system, though, and would totally revamp it entirely. I'm currently working on an effect-based magic system that uses power points instead of spell slots for my own version of d20.

Probably homebrewed original D&D (the little brown books plus house rules). But it's a close match between that and 1e AD&D.

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 19, 2021, 12:20:25 PM
EDIT/PS: I totally HATE D&D's magic system, though, and would totally revamp it entirely. I'm currently working on an effect-based magic system that uses power points instead of spell slots for my own version of d20.

Sounds neat, you gotta basic framework you wanna share or is it still under wraps?

To me White Box FMAG is it, with DCC right there, and AD&D 2e a close second/third.

I grew up on OD&D and so there is a special place in my heart for that one. Both C&C and DCC have a nice old school vibe and I love them, but my group mostly plays 5E. Not a great answer since I name-dropped four different games. I like D&D with a freestyle approach, so any of the four are good for me when played that way.

Honestly, I liked 2E over BECMI for two reasons:

One, there was a little more complexity.

Two, I'll be honest, I hate the race-as-class thing. It just annoyed me.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on April 19, 2021, 01:49:45 PM
Honestly, I liked 2E over BECMI for two reasons:

One, there was a little more complexity.

Two, I'll be honest, I hate the race-as-class thing. It just annoyed me.

That's one of the most trivial things to change.

Dwarf

• No long bows or two-handed swords (or large weapons)
• 9+ Con
• 60 ft infravision
• 2 in 6 detect slanted passages, traps, shifting walls, new construction
• Speaks common, dwarvish, gnome, goblin, kobold (alternately, +3 skills)
• +4 to all saves

Elf

• 9+ Int
• 60 ft infravision 60
• 2 in 6 find secret/hidden doors
• Cannot by paralyzed by ghouls
• Speak common, elvish, gnolls, hobgoblins, orcs (alternately, +3 skills)

Halfling

• Dex is always a prime
• Weapon or armor must be "cut down" to their size
• No long bows or two-handed swords
• 9+ Dex, 9+ Con
• +1 to hit with all missile weapons
• -2 to AC against creatures larger than man-sized
• +1 to individual initiative
• 90% chance to vanish into woods or underbrush
• 2 in 6 hide (must have cover, must remain absolutely still)

Double-classing rules

• Combine both classes into a single combined class
• HD: average, round down (d4,d8 = d6; feel free to use funny dice)
• XP: add togther, -10% (2000+2500=4500, 4500/10=450, 4500-450~=4000)
• Weapons, armor, attacks, saves: Best of either class
• Abilities: All of both

Quote from: Pat on April 19, 2021, 02:50:02 PM

Halfling

• Dex is always a prime
• Weapon or armor must be "cut down" to their size
• No long bows or two-handed swords
• 9+ Dex, 9+ Dex
• +1 to hit with all missile weapons
• -2 to AC against creatures larger than man-sized
• +1 to individual initiative
• 90% chance to vanish into woods or underbrush
• 2 in 6 hide (must have cover, must remain absolutely still)

Pat, I dunno what kind of BECMI/2E game you run, but in my games we usually only have one Dexterity attribute. :D

Other than that, I like it.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on April 19, 2021, 02:55:30 PM

Quote from: Pat on April 19, 2021, 02:50:02 PM

Halfling

• Dex is always a prime
• Weapon or armor must be "cut down" to their size
• No long bows or two-handed swords
• 9+ Dex, 9+ Dex
• +1 to hit with all missile weapons
• -2 to AC against creatures larger than man-sized
• +1 to individual initiative
• 90% chance to vanish into woods or underbrush
• 2 in 6 hide (must have cover, must remain absolutely still)

Pat, I dunno what kind of BECMI/2E game you run, but in my games we usually only have one Dexterity attribute. :D

Other than that, I like it.

Fixed (Con). B/X or BECMI is very easy to hack. New classes, separating out race and class, whatever. The lack of endless fiddly rules is a bonus.

Plus, the morale system is the best ever developed for D&D. Even when compared to 2e's version (which looks similar, but in practice is overly fiddly, with too many modifiers, and especially too many conditions that can trigger a check, in contrast to the very simple set of guidelines for Basic). People who import options from AD&D often import some of the complexity as well, which is generally a mistake.

D&D - B/X, BECMI, Cyclopedia (because they are simple and elegant systems that do not require a lot of work), 3.0/3.5 (because the amount of non-WotC OGL material is vast and there are some real gems in there like the Iron Kingdoms setting)

Close to D&D - Pathfinder 1e (mainly because of the Fuck You response to WotC's 4e shitstorm), OSR (Labyrinth Lord/Advanced Labyrinth Lord, Basic Fantasy, and Old School Essentials)

I'm an "old or new" person.

Give me the original, or give me something fresh and different in gameplay/mechanics/outlook.

So I'm into OD&D (which also includes MCM, S&W) and I totally dig 13th Age & Dungeon World. I've got not use for 3E/5E whatsoever. With AD&D (both editions), I just use modules, setting material, Gary's advice (DMG) and accessories- as rulesets I can't be bothered with them.

Quote from: This Guy on April 19, 2021, 12:32:44 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 19, 2021, 12:20:25 PM
EDIT/PS: I totally HATE D&D's magic system, though, and would totally revamp it entirely. I'm currently working on an effect-based magic system that uses power points instead of spell slots for my own version of d20.

Sounds neat, you gotta basic framework you wanna share or is it still under wraps?

I'm still working out the kinks, plus some details might be specific to may own variant of the d20 system. But the basic idea is I'm defining all basic effects, like damage, healing, conditions, etc., as universal effects used to build powers, objects and hazards. Most effects follow simple criteria based on common characteristics. Damage is 1d6/effect level (save for half) for Instant Damage, for example, and conditions have a save DC of 8 + effect level, etc. An effect's level is equal to the level of the power, object or hazard generating it. Power Levels are divided by power category (Natural, Magic, Martial or Trained) and are based on your class and level, and modified by a related ability score.

Effects also have certain specifications, including Range, Duration, Advantages* and Limitations*. Ranges are divided into Self, Melee, Ranged or Area (Aura, Cone, Cubic/Spherical or Line), are balanced against each other (self and melee get a +1 effect level bonus, Ranged has longest range, Area types have shorter range and affects everyone, friend or foe), and range distance is increased by effect level. Duration is specified by the effect type and can be Instant, Timed (1 round/effect level by default), Sustained (consciously maintained) or Permanent (usually counts as multiple Advantages). Advantages improve the effect somehow, such as increasing its range/area (in doubles), making area effects discreet, increased duration (by one time unit: rounds, minutes, days, weeks, etc.), extra effects, etc. Each advantage requires a Limitation, such as increased power point cost (default for magic powers, unless caster has other ideas and GM allows it), increased Activation DC, increased activation time, cooldown periods between use, etc.

Access to magic is defined by various Effect Pools that have a certain theme and determine the types of effects you have access to. And specific effect and spec combinations have to be learned as Spells to be used effectively. Attempting to use an unknown spell is possible, but increases the power's Activation DC by +5, and increases its activation time by one time unit (standard action to full-round, full-round to one minute, etc.). Effect Pools may vary by setting and GMs may make up their own, but I have two types of pools developed so far to layout the basic groundwork and provide universal functionality applicable to most fantasy worlds. These types of effect pools include Domains and Incantations.

Domains handle your command over different aspects of reality. They are divided into six Spheres, containing two Domains each: Artificial (Creation, Enchantment), Dimensional (Space, Time), Elemental (Energy, Matter), Mental (Psychokinesis, Telepathy), Primal (Animals, Plants) and Vital (Death, Life). Incantations are focused on general categories of common effects, such as damage (Harm), bonuses (Bless), conditions (Curse), extrasensory effects (Divination), etc. The Harm incantation, for example, provides access to all damage effects in general, while the Energy domain would provide access only to energy damage (fire, cold, electricity), and the Telepathy domain would have access only to psychic damage. Energy and Telepathy would also have access to other types of effects as well, however, such as conditions (Blindness, Deafness or effects that control elementals for Energy, mental conditions for Telepathy), summon effects (elementals for energy, psychic creatures for telepathy), extrasensory (detect energy or elementals for Energy, mind-reading for Telepathy), and other stuff, while Harm only has access to damage.

The GM may determine which types of pools they allow, and restrict an entire type of they feel that they overlap or conflict too much. Or they can make up their own using Domains as a basic guideline (basically develop an underlying theme, and pick which effects are related to it by going through each effect category, which currently include: Aid, Conditions, Creation, Damage, Extrasensory, Healing, Restore, Traits, Transform and Travel).


*Names pending change, since they sound too much like character abilities, but basically the idea you can add extra stuff to a basic effect.

EDIT: Also forgot: Powers cost 1 power point to use by default, +1 per increased power point cost limitation selected, and may require an Activation Check, with a DC of 10 +5 per Advantage possessed by the power's effects. Some effects may have level requirements, and particularly high requirements count as selecting an Advantage.

Quote from: jeff37923 on April 19, 2021, 03:28:59 PM
Close to D&D - Pathfinder 1e (mainly because of the Fuck You response to WotC's 4e shitstorm)

I brought some changes from Pathfinder to my 3.5E games, but I found the fluff a bit more, dunno, "childish" if compared with 3/3.5E (I have some 3E era books that I never used, but I liked to read them anyway).

Having said that, how Pathfinder became the vice around 4E's balls will always be their crowning achievement  :)

I think 3e was the pinnacle of DnD.

Does it have to be "official D&D"?

If positive:

- B/X if I want to travel light.
- Rules Cyclopedia if I get to choose one book only;
- If I can mix and match, add the 1e DMG, 2e MM and maybe the 5e PHB.

If I can pick D&D-like stuff and OSR:

- My own OSR neoclone, Dark Fantasy Basic.
- Something small and sweet (Knave, TBH 2, etc.)
- Shadow of the Demon Lord if I want lots of options.

Quote from: Shasarak on April 19, 2021, 04:45:39 PM
I think 3e was the pinnacle of DnD.

FACTS all around!  8)

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 19, 2021, 04:17:53 PM
*Snipping cool stuff*

That is all pretty cool, hope the draft comes out good.  :D

I like the Conan style type of play and I like the being on the edge of
Civilization facing the unknown.  I am starting to really like rq/coc playing more and more but I'm still a diehard b/x and rc player.

AD&D

As much as I want to say AD&D, what I probably really mean is AD&D like we played when I was in high school, well after 2nd edition had come out. That was truly the pinnacle of gaming in my mind, but in retrospect it was probably less about the rules than the play at the table. Consider one of the best games I played in was basically D&D using Rolemaster crit tables and Palladium classes and psionics. Back then that just seemed like what you did; everything is so delineated and "by the book" now in comparison...

If I have to actually pick a strictly BtB game, then it's a toss up between Castles and Crusades and B/X.

Worlds Without Number

I can enjoy every Edition from OD&D to the recent 5E. Every Edition has it highs and lows. Me personally i prefer to Run AD&D 1e.

D&D B/X is my favorite

Of the D&D versions I've played....

I really like the overall B/X engine and the dungeon crawl procedures

I really like AD&D 1st edition's races and classes as found in the Player's Handbook.  And the Gygax writing!

I really like D&D 5e's universal d20 roll-hgih mechanic.  I know 5e isn't the first D&D edition to have this, but I never played those earlier versions.  My playing experience went from AD&D, to D&D 5e many years later.

So my ultimate D&D would largely be B/X, with the races and classes from the 1st edition AD&D PHB, while using a simple d20 roll-high mechanic for various tasks and skills.

Quote from: Crusader X on April 21, 2021, 05:53:01 PM
So my ultimate D&D would largely be B/X, with the races and classes from the 1st edition AD&D PHB, while using a simple d20 roll-high mechanic for various tasks and skills.

So basically you want Castles & Crusades.

5th edition + AiME gives me the ability to run the full range of genres I could wish.  So it is by far the default D&D for me.

2e is where I started so it has a special place in my heart.  Plus most of the TSR settings are built on the 1e/2e bones so they're easier to run using the original rules.

I can see merit in all the other editions and they all serve slightly different functions.  The only one I have zero desire to ever touch again (except the occasional time a friend begs me to play) is anything 3e related.  That edition is seriously awful.  Even worse than 4e.

AD&D, 1e mainly; 2e stuff is sufficiently compatible to be used as supplemental material.
Tied with AD&D - ACKS. Think of a unification of Gary Gygax and Tony Bath. That's ACKS.

Core 1E - PHB, DMG, MM. Everything else on a case by case basis if I like it.
If I'm doing real world pantheons, D&DG is in.
If I'm doing Greyhawk, box set is in as well as Greyhawk Adventures hardback, and even a lot of the 2E Greyhawk stuff is in.
FF is always in because I find the monsters in there really interesting.
MMII is mostly out, other than a few entries that I think are really good.
UA is entirely out.

1e for me, but I also like BECMI. For OSR I like DCC and C&C. Unfortunately stuck playing in 5e games at the moment.

BECMI + Gazeteers,  Castles & Crusades or 5e.  This goes double if the DM for C&C or 5e uses the Mana Points/Spell Points rules.

I have two huge complaints that are the reasons why I absolutely LOATHE 3.0/3.5 and Pathfinder with the burning passion of a thousand Foreman grills: Vancian casting and the Feat system.

I could talk your ear off about how much I hate 3.5 and Pathfinder, but I won't. This is a positive thread for talking about what we DO like ;D .  So I'll stick to that.

BECMI is a great blast from the past.  I especially love the Old School Essentials version of it as it presents the rules in probably the easiest to understand way I have ever seen while adding a lot of options with the Advanced Fantasy Genre rules.  I especially love that it manages to make THAC0 not scary to new players.  THAC0 gets a bad rap, but having used both ascending and descending AC, I really prefer Descending.  You're just looking up numbers on a chart and with the Descending AC, the die roll actually matters no matter what Level you are.

Castles and Crusades is probably my favorite. It manages to make a game built on the skeleton of 3.5 feel way more like BECMI.   The removal of Half Casters is a nice touch to.  Something that has always bugged me about later editions of DnD is this tendency to give ABSOLUTELY EVERYONE spellcasting.   I prefer spellcasting to be somewhat rare and require more investment from players. It's a big part of the reason why earlier editions of DnD had a more grounded, lower-magic feel.  C&C really replicates that very well.  I really like how C&C expands on and improves the equipment list, adding lots of weapon variety with different swords, some weapons working slightly better against armor than others and the Castle Keepers Guide and Arms and Armor adding a ton more options.

5e is going to be controversial in no small part because of the culture that surrounds it, but I still rather like 5e.  The 5e RAW, especially pre-Tashas, is actually very grognardy.  5e is also way more flexible than 3.5 or 4e ever were.  I like that the Feat system is less obtuse and totally optional. I will usually opt not to use it and the addition of Spell Points in the DMG was a very nice touch.

AD&D 1E is my favorite official version of the game.  However, we hacked the living day lights out of the rules.  AD&D 2E wasn't too far away play wise, but it also moved too much of the game player facing and making it more difficult to rely on Rule 0.

However, I just think there was too much complexity at the end of the day.  For modern takes I like Matt Finch's work in compiling Swords & Wizardry Complete the most.  Mentzer Basic/Expert may have been my entry into the hobby but I just don't have the nostalgia for it that the OSR community does.

Quote from: Palleon on April 24, 2021, 09:10:55 AMMentzer Basic/Expert may have been my entry into the hobby but I just don't have the nostalgia for it that the OSR community does.

I wasn't aware that that was a thing.  I started with Holmes then moved to AD&D.  Compared to those two, the Menzer books looked a little cartoonish to me.

I started out with Basic D&D. The friend who got me into the hobby had the red box. But that was in 1990, when 2e had just come out, and I always had issues with the lack of options in Basic (no skills) and hated treating class and race as the same thing, so by the time I was hooked enough to get my own books I made the switch and went to 2e immediately. Then never looked back, except may for research purposes to look at the roots of D&D before tinkering with stuff. But I need options. I need muh skills. I need muh feats (better implemented than 3e, maybe, but I need special traits and shit). I need races and classes treated like they're a different thing, cuz they demonstrably are.

I don't like the hundred thousand specialized classes of recent editions, but 4 classes with NO special options is not enough to keep me interested or draw much distinction between characters. That might serve well as a base if you have feats and stuff every other level or something, or Kits (which work better than specialized classes). But 4 barebone classes alone is megalame.

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 25, 2021, 02:53:32 PM
I started out with Basic D&D. The friend who got me into the hobby had the red box. But that was in 1990, when 2e had just come out, and I always had issues with the lack of options in Basic (no skills) and hated treating class and race as the same thing, so by the time I was hooked enough to get my own books I made the switch and went to 2e immediately. Then never looked back, except may for research purposes to look at the roots of D&D before tinkering with stuff. But I need options. I need muh skills. I need muh feats (better implemented than 3e, maybe, but I need special traits and shit). I need races and classes treated like they're a different thing, cuz they demonstrably are.

I don't like the hundred thousand specialized classes of recent editions, but 4 classes with NO special options is not enough to keep me interested or draw much distinction between characters. That might serve well as a base if you have feats and stuff every other level or something, or Kits (which work better than specialized classes). But 4 barebone classes alone is megalame.

Welcome to the club, Class =/= Race 100%
Skills Fuck yes, maybe a more general list or something but yes, give me!
Feats, Yes, not as many and maybe not as often but yes.
Kits, maybe, if done as specialization of the base class, as in you need to be level X to opt for it.

Started with the Holmes box set and graduated into 1st ed, so that will always hold a lot of good memories in my heart. We played the shit out of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. Luckily missed 4th, and we're playing 5th now and we all seem to enjoy it.

If I were to run a d&d game, it would be Astonishing Swordsmen and Sorcerers of Hyperborea all the way. Has the feel of 1st and 2nd,  and a shitload of usable, interesting classes. Was (and still am) a huge REH and Lovecraft fan, so the whole non-Tolkien races/monsters pleases me.

The one I'm playing

Tough choice between BX and BECMI, but I'll go with the former because it is balanced for a 14 level progression rather than 36.

Beyond the Wall (and now Through Sunken Lands) are also favorites. I love the playbooks and the magic system (the arcane/divine split is possibly my least favorite part of D&D)

Quote from: Mishihari on April 24, 2021, 07:57:14 PM
I wasn't aware that that was a thing.  I started with Holmes then moved to AD&D.  Compared to those two, the Menzer books looked a little cartoonish to me.

One needs only look at all the mentions of BECMI in this thread alone to see that nostalgia.  I made it to Expert but switched to AD&D before Companion came out.  Mostly because race-is-class is and always has been a bad idea.

Quote from: Palleon on April 26, 2021, 08:46:02 PM

One needs only look at all the mentions of BECMI in this thread alone to see that nostalgia.  I made it to Expert but switched to AD&D before Companion came out.  Mostly because race-is-class is and always has been a bad idea.

Nostalgia has nothing to do with it. 

Quote from: Steven Mitchell on April 26, 2021, 09:38:21 PM

Quote from: Palleon on April 26, 2021, 08:46:02 PM

One needs only look at all the mentions of BECMI in this thread alone to see that nostalgia.  I made it to Expert but switched to AD&D before Companion came out.  Mostly because race-is-class is and always has been a bad idea.

Nostalgia has nothing to do with it.

Word.

A friend of mine a few years ago told me that his teen-age daughters and some friends wanted to try D&D. I ran "Palace of the Silver Princess" using the Italian editions of Basic and Expert (my copies from the '80s! - no PDFs of them). They had a blast. Luckily the Italian Edition of 5E had just come out (this happened in 2016 IIRC), so when they wanted to go on playing by themselves I suggested 5E. Some of them are still playing.

5E was a blessing, but it was BX who did the trick. It was (and still is) a perfectly fine system.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell on April 26, 2021, 09:38:21 PM
Nostalgia has nothing to do with it.

Agreed. I play the versions of D&D that I like because I prefer them, not because I'm nostalgic.

Quote from: Palleon on April 26, 2021, 08:46:02 PM
One needs only look at all the mentions of BECMI in this thread alone to see that nostalgia.  I made it to Expert but switched to AD&D before Companion came out.  Mostly because race-is-class is and always has been a bad idea.

Define "bad idea". If you want to play The Hobbit, B/X or BECMI makes way more sense than AD&D. I have no nostalgia for B/X or whatever; I actually play it because the more simple implementation means I can get on with the game instead of fucking around with making characters. If you're trying to introduce new players to D&D, AD&D is not a good place to start whatsoever. That said, I think Advanced Labyrinth Lord is probably the best version of B/X.

4th Edition with my own homebrewed modifications and houserules. I'm actually pretty excited that I'm putting together a Campaign set in the world of Diablo and just making a bunch of the monsters from that game has been a lot of fun.

Quote from: Palleon on April 26, 2021, 08:46:02 PM

Quote from: Mishihari on April 24, 2021, 07:57:14 PM
I wasn't aware that that was a thing.  I started with Holmes then moved to AD&D.  Compared to those two, the Menzer books looked a little cartoonish to me.

One needs only look at all the mentions of BECMI in this thread alone to see that nostalgia.  I made it to Expert but switched to AD&D before Companion came out.  Mostly because race-is-class is and always has been a bad idea.

This forum is like 90% OSR. They worship OD&D. You're confusing a cult with nostalgia.  :P

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 27, 2021, 10:48:00 AM

Quote from: Palleon on April 26, 2021, 08:46:02 PM

Quote from: Mishihari on April 24, 2021, 07:57:14 PM
I wasn't aware that that was a thing.  I started with Holmes then moved to AD&D.  Compared to those two, the Menzer books looked a little cartoonish to me.

One needs only look at all the mentions of BECMI in this thread alone to see that nostalgia.  I made it to Expert but switched to AD&D before Companion came out.  Mostly because race-is-class is and always has been a bad idea.

This forum is like 90% OSR. They worship OD&D. You're confusing a cult with nostalgia.  :P

I dont think so, it seems the vast majority of OSR products are based on B/X not OD&D

Quote from: Slambo on April 27, 2021, 10:50:09 AM

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 27, 2021, 10:48:00 AM

Quote from: Palleon on April 26, 2021, 08:46:02 PM

Quote from: Mishihari on April 24, 2021, 07:57:14 PM
I wasn't aware that that was a thing.  I started with Holmes then moved to AD&D.  Compared to those two, the Menzer books looked a little cartoonish to me.

One needs only look at all the mentions of BECMI in this thread alone to see that nostalgia.  I made it to Expert but switched to AD&D before Companion came out.  Mostly because race-is-class is and always has been a bad idea.

This forum is like 90% OSR. They worship OD&D. You're confusing a cult with nostalgia.  :P

I dont think so, it seems the vast majority of OSR products are based on B/X not OD&D

A distinction understandable only to people that worship OD&D, as in "Old" D&D (in general), as opposed to "original" D&D (White Box? whatever) or any of the fifty thousand variations of what is essentially D&D 0e. Nobody else knows what any of these strings of letters mean.

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 27, 2021, 11:02:14 AM

Quote from: Slambo on April 27, 2021, 10:50:09 AM

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 27, 2021, 10:48:00 AM

Quote from: Palleon on April 26, 2021, 08:46:02 PM

Quote from: Mishihari on April 24, 2021, 07:57:14 PM
I wasn't aware that that was a thing.  I started with Holmes then moved to AD&D.  Compared to those two, the Menzer books looked a little cartoonish to me.

One needs only look at all the mentions of BECMI in this thread alone to see that nostalgia.  I made it to Expert but switched to AD&D before Companion came out.  Mostly because race-is-class is and always has been a bad idea.

This forum is like 90% OSR. They worship OD&D. You're confusing a cult with nostalgia.  :P

I dont think so, it seems the vast majority of OSR products are based on B/X not OD&D

A distinction understandable only to people that worship OD&D, as in "Old" D&D (in general), as opposed to "original" D&D (White Box? whatever) or any of the fifty thousand variations of what is essentially D&D 0e. Nobody else knows what any of these strings of letters mean.

Im pretty sure a lot of people do. Also using an acronym thats the same as another acronym to mean something different is needlessly confusing things.

Some type of sword & sorcery for mature audiences.  I prefer rules-light old-school type games, but with a few modern innovations (ascending AC, inspiration, leveling quickly, etc.)

VS

Quote from: Slambo on April 27, 2021, 11:08:08 AM

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 27, 2021, 11:02:14 AM

Quote from: Slambo on April 27, 2021, 10:50:09 AM

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 27, 2021, 10:48:00 AM

Quote from: Palleon on April 26, 2021, 08:46:02 PM

Quote from: Mishihari on April 24, 2021, 07:57:14 PM
I wasn't aware that that was a thing.  I started with Holmes then moved to AD&D.  Compared to those two, the Menzer books looked a little cartoonish to me.

One needs only look at all the mentions of BECMI in this thread alone to see that nostalgia.  I made it to Expert but switched to AD&D before Companion came out.  Mostly because race-is-class is and always has been a bad idea.

This forum is like 90% OSR. They worship OD&D. You're confusing a cult with nostalgia.  :P

I dont think so, it seems the vast majority of OSR products are based on B/X not OD&D

A distinction understandable only to people that worship OD&D, as in "Old" D&D (in general), as opposed to "original" D&D (White Box? whatever) or any of the fifty thousand variations of what is essentially D&D 0e. Nobody else knows what any of these strings of letters mean.

Im pretty sure a lot of people do. Also using an acronym thats the same as another acronym to mean something different is needlessly confusing things.

That's the nature of acronyms. Each letter can potentially map out to different words and there's no consensus on which one is the "correct" one, assuming that "correct" even exists in this case. Plenty of acronyms have a wide variety of meanings. People don't even agree WTF the "R" in "OSR" means! Is it renaissance? Is it revival? Is it revulsion? Who knows?

I've seen plenty of people use OD&D to mean "old". I even saw an old thread way back at the Pub (I think?) of a guy complaining about the inconsistency of usage, and how people are not properly familiar with the endless variations of what OSR types mean with OD&D vs B/X vs 0e, etc. Seriously, NO ONE else in the RPG world has so many unique and snowflaky acronyms or letter-numbers to refer to what's ostensibly the 1st edition of their game engine.

It is a bit odd, that when people say 1st Edition; they aren't referring to the 1st Edition of the game.

If you tell people that you are playing 3rd Edition, most will assume that you meant 3.5; even though that's not what you said.

This is a strange hobby.

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 27, 2021, 10:48:00 AM

Quote from: Palleon on April 26, 2021, 08:46:02 PM

Quote from: Mishihari on April 24, 2021, 07:57:14 PM
I wasn't aware that that was a thing.  I started with Holmes then moved to AD&D.  Compared to those two, the Menzer books looked a little cartoonish to me.

One needs only look at all the mentions of BECMI in this thread alone to see that nostalgia.  I made it to Expert but switched to AD&D before Companion came out.  Mostly because race-is-class is and always has been a bad idea.

This forum is like 90% OSR. They worship OD&D. You're confusing a cult with nostalgia.  :P

Here's a news flash for them then:  OD&D did not have race-is-class either.

Quote from: Palleon on April 27, 2021, 01:46:39 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 27, 2021, 10:48:00 AM

Quote from: Palleon on April 26, 2021, 08:46:02 PM

Quote from: Mishihari on April 24, 2021, 07:57:14 PM
I wasn't aware that that was a thing.  I started with Holmes then moved to AD&D.  Compared to those two, the Menzer books looked a little cartoonish to me.

One needs only look at all the mentions of BECMI in this thread alone to see that nostalgia.  I made it to Expert but switched to AD&D before Companion came out.  Mostly because race-is-class is and always has been a bad idea.

This forum is like 90% OSR. They worship OD&D. You're confusing a cult with nostalgia.  :P

Here's a news flash for them then:  OD&D did not have race-is-class either.

He meant it as old dnd as in anything pre Ad&d, apparently.

Quote from: Slambo on April 27, 2021, 01:55:23 PM
He meant it as old dnd as in anything pre Ad&d, apparently.

The problem there is race-is-class was introduced in Moldvay's Basic after a decision was made to keep it a separate game in 81.  The Holmes edition specifically steered you towards AD&D if you wanted to be a thief with your demi-humans.  AD&D 1E's PHB from 78 is the continuation of 0E in this regard.

AD&D 2E is my favorite iteration of the game and the one I still play to this day. But I also like BECMI/RC.

As for the types of campaigns, it's always heroic fantasy / superversive fantasy, with a pinch of high fantasy.

Quote from: Jam The MF on April 27, 2021, 01:13:19 PM
It is a bit odd, that when people say 1st Edition; they aren't referring to the 1st Edition of the game.

If you tell people that you are playing 3rd Edition, most will assume that you meant 3.5; even though that's not what you said.

This is a strange hobby.

I blame TSR's marketing of AD&D vs whatever we're supposed to call non-"advanced" D&D (I used to call it "Basic" back in the day, but the OSR complicated things with OD&D, 0e, B/X, etc.). Now we're stuck calling whatever sprang after AD&D 2e "D&D 3e+" even though there's like 4 or 5 non "AD&D" editions of D&D.

Quote from: Slambo on April 27, 2021, 01:55:23 PM

Quote from: Palleon on April 27, 2021, 01:46:39 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 27, 2021, 10:48:00 AM

Quote from: Palleon on April 26, 2021, 08:46:02 PM

Quote from: Mishihari on April 24, 2021, 07:57:14 PM
I wasn't aware that that was a thing.  I started with Holmes then moved to AD&D.  Compared to those two, the Menzer books looked a little cartoonish to me.

One needs only look at all the mentions of BECMI in this thread alone to see that nostalgia.  I made it to Expert but switched to AD&D before Companion came out.  Mostly because race-is-class is and always has been a bad idea.

This forum is like 90% OSR. They worship OD&D. You're confusing a cult with nostalgia.  :P

Here's a news flash for them then:  OD&D did not have race-is-class either.

He meant it as old dnd as in anything pre Ad&d, apparently.

I might lump AD&D 1e there too, since some in the OSR revere that as well and snub 2e. Though, I usually see "old" D&D used to refer to anything pre-3e (i.e. The Pinnacle of D&D).

Quote from: Palleon on April 27, 2021, 02:33:04 PM

Quote from: Slambo on April 27, 2021, 01:55:23 PM
He meant it as old dnd as in anything pre Ad&d, apparently.

The problem there is race-is-class was introduced in Moldvay's Basic after a decision was made to keep it a separate game in 81.  The Holmes edition specifically steered you towards AD&D if you wanted to be a thief with your demi-humans.  AD&D 1E's PHB from 78 is the continuation of 0E in this regard.

I know, i waa beinf cheeky wirh acronyms

Quote from: Palleon on April 27, 2021, 02:33:04 PM

Quote from: Slambo on April 27, 2021, 01:55:23 PM
He meant it as old dnd as in anything pre Ad&d, apparently.

The problem there is race-is-class was introduced in Moldvay's Basic after a decision was made to keep it a separate game in 81.  The Holmes edition specifically steered you towards AD&D if you wanted to be a thief with your demi-humans.  AD&D 1E's PHB from 78 is the continuation of 0E in this regard.

The impression I had at the time was that B/X was meant for the players to recreate their own version of The Fellowship of the Ring (which was just fine for someone who had just discovered the hobby) and then move on to AD&D.

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 27, 2021, 02:48:40 PM

Quote from: Jam The MF on April 27, 2021, 01:13:19 PM
It is a bit odd, that when people say 1st Edition; they aren't referring to the 1st Edition of the game.

If you tell people that you are playing 3rd Edition, most will assume that you meant 3.5; even though that's not what you said.

This is a strange hobby.

I blame TSR's marketing of AD&D vs whatever we're supposed to call non-"advanced" D&D (I used to call it "Basic" back in the day, but the OSR complicated things with OD&D, 0e, B/X, etc.). Now we're stuck calling whatever sprang after AD&D 2e "D&D 3e+" even though there's like 4 or 5 non "AD&D" editions of D&D.

Quote from: Slambo on April 27, 2021, 01:55:23 PM

Quote from: Palleon on April 27, 2021, 01:46:39 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 27, 2021, 10:48:00 AM

Quote from: Palleon on April 26, 2021, 08:46:02 PM

Quote from: Mishihari on April 24, 2021, 07:57:14 PM
I wasn't aware that that was a thing.  I started with Holmes then moved to AD&D.  Compared to those two, the Menzer books looked a little cartoonish to me.

One needs only look at all the mentions of BECMI in this thread alone to see that nostalgia.  I made it to Expert but switched to AD&D before Companion came out.  Mostly because race-is-class is and always has been a bad idea.

This forum is like 90% OSR. They worship OD&D. You're confusing a cult with nostalgia.  :P

Here's a news flash for them then:  OD&D did not have race-is-class either.

He meant it as old dnd as in anything pre Ad&d, apparently.

I might lump AD&D 1e there too, since some in the OSR revere that as well and snub 2e. Though, I usually see "old" D&D used to refer to anything pre-3e (i.e. The Pinnacle of D&D).

2E AD&D does appear to be treated like the stepchild of TSR, by the OSR.  Or rather, the stepchild of Gary Gygax.  TSR's swan song.  The Rules Cyclopedia was also of late vintage, too.

I'm going to buck the trend and say my favorite edition of official D&D is 4E with late 3.5e with only the tier 3-4 classes allowed as my runner up.

Allowing non-D&D... then my own system (which mechanically is a streamlined love child of the above minus the narrative-focused aspects of 4E) jumps to 1st place.

The closest my interests fall to OSR is Palladium Fantasy 1e, which would be in 4th place with Palladium Fantasy 2e in 5th. My dislike of TSR-era D&D* is such that "not gaming" actually ranks higher and so beyond that metric I'm really unable to rank them.

I realize this puts me well out of the norm for this forum, but who enjoys echo chambers anyway?

*I loved the Red Box back when I was 10 and was able to run it with a few kids in the back of the school bus during the hour long ride to/from school... but all things TSR-era died for me with the biblically awful DM I experienced a few years later (first group I'd found after moving to a new state) to the point that only discovering the Robotech RPG and expanding into the rest of Palladium's lines kept me from dropping gaming entirely. I didn't touch D&D again until 3e so D&D basically didn't exist for me from 1987-2000 (so all of middle school, high school and college).

Quote from: Brad on April 22, 2021, 09:32:22 AM

Quote from: Crusader X on April 21, 2021, 05:53:01 PM
So my ultimate D&D would largely be B/X, with the races and classes from the 1st edition AD&D PHB, while using a simple d20 roll-high mechanic for various tasks and skills.

So basically you want Castles & Crusades.

Maybe!  Its on my list of games to try out.  What are some of your favorite things about C&C?

For me D&D is the first rpg that was the gateway rpg to the hobby. I enjoy all editions with their merits and flaws.

As for D&D acronyms most players in the hobby really do not know them imo and most honestly don't care. Knowing all the acronyms does not get one laid, popular or any tangible benefits like medical insurance. Myself I knew of the existence of the Red Box and the other boxes, Rules Cyclopedia and First Edition and later editions of D&D. Others like OSCRic, White Box and others were new to me.

Two-way tie: Original D&D and 1e AD&D, up to some select bits of Unearthed Arcana, but not past that.

Quote from: sureshot on May 02, 2021, 09:56:48 PM
For me D&D is the first rpg that was the gateway rpg to the hobby. I enjoy all editions with their merits and flaws.

As for D&D acronyms most players in the hobby really do not know them imo and most honestly don't care. Knowing all the acronyms does not get one laid, popular or any tangible benefits like medical insurance. Myself I knew of the existence of the Red Box and the other boxes, Rules Cyclopedia and First Edition and later editions of D&D. Others like OSCRic, White Box and others were new to me.

I didn't even know of the existence of White Box and all that crap till I started dealing with the OSR online a few years ago. Red Box was the 1st D&D to me till then, and Rules Cyclopedia (the only one I ever owned at one point*) was just a compilation of Red Box & Co. I still can't write the full acronym of all the boxes following Red Box off the top of my head, or even grasp the notion of breaking down a game system into like five or six boxes (WHY?!?), cuz NO other game in RPG history has done something as stupid as that.

AD&D 2e was the only one I cared for when I started out, since I never liked Basic.

*I still have a PDF, but I used to own a hardcover back in the 90s, till I lend it to a Basic D&D aficionado then never saw it again.

Quote from: VisionStorm on May 03, 2021, 08:47:06 AM
I still can't write the full acronym of all the boxes following Red Box off the top of my head, or even grasp the notion of breaking down a game system into like five or six boxes (WHY?!?), cuz NO other game in RPG history has done something as stupid as that.

AD&D 2e was the only one I cared for when I started out, since I never liked Basic.

Even though I'm not a fan, the box sets encapsulated tiers of play in a modular format.  It was a rather ingenious way to sneak in the complexity more gradually to those who didn't just jump on AD&D 1E. 

As far as no other RPGs doing this... I'd say that's not entirely being honest with what splat books are doing to the base game in modern editions or other systems.

Quote from: VisionStorm on May 03, 2021, 08:47:06 AM
I still can't write the full acronym of all the boxes following Red Box off the top of my head, or even grasp the notion of breaking down a game system into like five or six boxes (WHY?!?), cuz NO other game in RPG history has done something as stupid as that.

I think Green Ronin did the same with DragonAGE.

The Games Workshop (UK) version of RQ 3rd edition did something similar back in the day with the "Runequest" and "Advanced Runequest" books.

Not saying it's a good idea from a game design perspective, but it probably sells more product to kids. One Basic D&D set is an easier convince /  pocket money target than all three of a PHB, DMG and MM.

Quote from: Palleon on May 03, 2021, 09:22:36 AM

Quote from: VisionStorm on May 03, 2021, 08:47:06 AM
I still can't write the full acronym of all the boxes following Red Box off the top of my head, or even grasp the notion of breaking down a game system into like five or six boxes (WHY?!?), cuz NO other game in RPG history has done something as stupid as that.

AD&D 2e was the only one I cared for when I started out, since I never liked Basic.

Even though I'm not a fan, the box sets encapsulated tiers of play in a modular format.  It was a rather ingenious way to sneak in the complexity more gradually to those who didn't just jump on AD&D 1E. 

As far as no other RPGs doing this... I'd say that's not entirely being honest with what splat books are doing to the base game in modern editions or other systems.

There's a difference between splat books with optional material that expand on what you do can do with the game without being required to experience the full range of game play covered by the core rules (what every other game does), and the core system itself being broken down into multiple supplements you have to get to unlock the entire core engine. Even taking "epic level" supplements of later editions into account, those at least deal with levels of play most game groups never even reach and are all covered in a single supplement, rather than multiple progressively higher level supplements to cover the full game.

I'm also not sure how breaking up the level range into multiple supplements simplifies things, vs having a single full level table from the get go to give you full visibility of what progression is like. It's not like characters get THAT much stuff on level up in Basic D&D. They barely get squat. Most levels they only get an extra HD. By 5e, every single class level gives you one fiddly feature, yet they managed to cram all that into a single book.

I think my favourite would be my first D&D which was the Mentzer Red Box. I loved the simplicity of the design, the feel of the world, and the artwork. But I wonder in some way if I like it more because, of all the versions I've played, it's the version I've played the least. I quickly moved on to 1st edition AD&D, completely buying into the hype at the time that it was the one true path. I then dropped out of the game entirely for many years. I dipped back in with some 2nd edition AD&D years later, but I didn't get inspired again until the release of 4th edition. The only real problem I had with 4th edition was getting my group back together. The editions had totally split my old gaming group into the 2nd edition die hards, 3rd edition die hards, and those who were bored and wanted something new. But it was 4th that eventually broke the deadlock and since then we've played 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th editions. 5th edition eventually won out, I think because it's everyone's second favourite.

The argument that B/X and BECMI being "bad game design" is a purely retrospective view. At the time it made a lot of sense, and my first D&D game ever was run by my junior high buddy was using the Mentzer Red Box. I saved up to buy my own soon after, and taught myself to run games from the DM's book. There was pretty much zero way you were going to teach yourself to DM using AD&D unless you had some prior experience in either playing D&D or possibly double-blind wargaming. As a 12 year old kid, the Red Box served its purpose: to introduce more people into the game.

You might call it "bad game design," but it was ingenious for the time.

Warhammer Fantasy RP 1e